Looking for info on an old Rocket proposal

[Carl]

I own a paper copy of Colonies in Space and in there, there is a description of a spacecraft, according to the accompanying image it was somthing NASA actually came up with, though i suspect only a passing study was done. I'd like to see if anyone else has heard of it. Sadly i can't provide the image as the online copy of the book lacks the image for copyright reasons and my paper copy is in storage somwhere. I can however quote the online books text and i have seen other images of it from time to time, again none online.

 

Quote

The required launch vehicles would tax the rocket-builder's art to the limit. From the outside, they would look like enormous Mercury capsules, 167 feet in diameter and 192 feet tall. At liftoff, a launch vehicle would weigh 12,000 tons and would rise upon 20 engines, representing the thrust of 4 Saturn V moon rockets. The engines would gulp fuel (kerosene and liquid oxygen) at the rate of sixty tons per second, lifting a vehicle the weight of a naval cruiser. The power of ten such cruisers would be needed, to run the pumps of such a rocket.

To keep costs to the lowest level, the rocket would be fully reusable. All propellant tanks would be enclosed within the framework of the huge structure. The broad flat surface at the base of the rocket would give protection while re-entering the atmosphere. The rocket engines set into this base would need special protection. This would be provided by carrying water in the base. During re-entry the water would boil into steam which would flow to the outside of the base and shield the engines. There would also be a number of smaller rocket engines to fire just before touchdown and provide a safe landing.

Such a launch vehicle would resemble a ship in more than its size and weight. It would take off and land on water—on an artificial lagoon at Cape Canaveral three miles across. A creature of water, air, and space, it would never touch the land. After each flight it would be towed to a berth or drydock to be made ready for the next flight. It would carry 500 tons of cargo to orbit. Yet it would be necessary to launch such a rocket nearly every day to build one powersat a year.

I've allways been curious about this thing, but this is the most i've ever read on it.

[Bill Phil]

Sounds like Sea Dragon, but the description is different... 

I don't know

[Servo]

I'm just building off of the Sea Dragon comparison, which seems to be the most apt. While that may have described an early version, there are a couple main details missing. First and foremost, the sea dragon was a two stage rocket and (partially, at least) expendable. That said, the sea launch and 500+ ton payload were both accurate.

[Carl]

Nah that not it the length to width ratio is a few times that. About the same as a half sphere

[kerbiloid]

Have you already checked https://falsesteps.wordpress.com

Also, the cult KSP site http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by kerbiloid

[Carl]

The Nexus looks closer, it's not the same design but it's probably an offshoot or variant, (same rough proportions but different engine layout entirely, and a somewhat different outer skin, (or rather lack thereof). AR has nothing on it AFAIK.  False steps i'd need to really go back through the list i guess, long job.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Carl

[kerbiloid]

Sea Dragon looks very close to description as it floats in ocean (it's remarkable feature), 550 t of payload, But it "had" 1 engine per stage, not 20, and size differs.

As all such rockets are implementation of Big Dumb Booster conception, maybe this is just a misunderstood of the "Colonies..." author.
Maybe, he mixed Sea Dragon and Nexus. 

[Kryten]

Sea Dragon was not a NASA project.

[Carl]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Sea Dragon looks very close to description as it floats in ocean (it's remarkable feature), 550 t of payload, But it "had" 1 engine per stage, not 20, and size differs.

As all such rockets are implementation of Big Dumb Booster conception, maybe this is just a misunderstood of the "Colonies..." author.
Maybe, he mixed Sea Dragon and Nexus. 

Unlikely, this is a layman's writeup of the definitive study done on space colonisation. Those big bicycle wheel colony's you see so much, the big rotating cylinder, the egg shaped rotator. They did the grunt work behind all that, whilst the concept of spinning for gravity isn't new, they were the first to take the concept to a practical level. Seriously read the whole book, it's worth it :).

 

As a timeline point, the book dates to approx 74 and the study is a bit earlier than that. So it's basically post shuttle development begun, but pre it entering service. So the design itself probably dates to the late apollo/pre-shuttle era. And it's clear they had a lot of contacts within NASA itself so it's quite probable this was one of those far out things you barely ever hear about, (same as the way you'll hear about MX-1589 when talking about nuclear aircraft propulsion, but the Lockheed CL1201 is nearly unknown).

[kerbiloid]

Looks like there was a family of Nexuses.  
(See the 2nd post http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7757.0.html )

Quote

From the outside, they would look like enormous Mercury capsules, 167 feet in diameter and 192 feet tall. At liftoff, a launch vehicle would weigh 12,000 tons and would rise upon 20 engines, representing the thrust of 4 Saturn V moon rockets. 

The first link gives this picture (forum doesn't like it to show): 

http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/nexus1.jpg

Left variant:
"To look like Mercury" - done.
"a launch vehicle would weigh 12,000 tons" - "gross weight = 24 mln lb"
"It would carry 500 tons of cargo to orbit"  - "payload = 1 mln lb"
"167 feet in diameter" = "diameter = 164 ft"
"would rise upon 20 engines, representing the thrust of 4 Saturn V moon rockets"  - i.e. thrust = 4x5xF-1 = 4x5x(1.5..1.7) mln lb = 30..34 mln lb    -    "32 mln lb"

Looks, that's it.

(Also ahve a look at all three links in that post.)

Edited January 26, 2017 by kerbiloid

[Carl]

Ahh that .looks more like it than the nexus linked prior, (that said it had a big central aerospike for liftoff.

 

The shapes off from the image i saw, but that was of it landing again. I just assumed the payload was carried internally, not stuck on the top. If we assume that, it looks pretty spot on.

 

Cheers.