CatastrophicFailure Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, sh1pman said: Elon is secretly building a giant revolver gun. That shoots cars into space. The... Spaceman in Black fled across the void, and the... Carslinger followed? 22 minutes ago, tater said: That 787 fuselage is just under 6m in diameter, BTW. Small, lol. Relatively. But also an encouraging reminder that making great big carbon composite tubes is not new technology. It’s understood well enough to pass the rigorous margins and inspections of airliner regulation. Elon’s not reinventing the wheel here, he’s just making it... bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: The... Spaceman in Black fled across the void, and the... Carslinger followed? I do not aim with my hand. He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my inertial control unit hooked up to my TVC actuators with roll control provided by... Yeah, never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, KSK said: I do not aim with my hand. He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my inertial control unit hooked up to my TVC actuators with roll control provided by... Yeah, never mind. I don't get reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, DAL59 said: I don't get reference. Start reading. There is no movie. ಠ_ಠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: 25 minutes ago, DAL59 said: I don't get reference. Start reading. this links to nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, DAL59 said: this links to nothing *shuffleshuffle* Apparently I aimed with my hand or something, try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Dark Tower series, of course. And no, i haven't read it. But i've read many Stephen King's novels and stories - guess his writing style is so distinctive my brain can recognise it anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bfr-factory-rocket-tooling-site-activity/ That's the tent the mandrel is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wjolcz Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Is it me or are they actually trying to get everything done as fast as possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wjolcz said: Is it me or are they actually trying to get everything done as fast as possible? They're trying to fly this thing to Mars in four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Wjolcz said: Is it me or are they actually trying to get everything done as fast as possible? Given the typical SpaceX jokes about schedules that get tossed around, maybe they’re trying to show that they’re, ahem, “serious.” If this is their big gamble for the next decade and beyond, the sooner it’s “real,” the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Wjolcz said: Is it me or are they actually trying to get everything done as fast as possible? They have 6 years to launch humans to Mars. The clock is ticking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, DAL59 said: They have 6 years to launch humans to Mars. The clock is ticking. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, DAL59 said: They have 6 years to launch humans to Mars. The clock is ticking. They have 6 years to launch 2,213 of their own satellites. Mars has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I think I need to reiterate the importance of Starlink. 4,425 sats. It has the possibility to make vast quantities of money, as well. Let’s assume Musk’s Mars goals are his real aim, and that it is achievable in some fashion. It will still take money, and lots of it. Contrary to fanboi myth, there is no possible economic driver for Mars. It’s a sinkhole for cash. If he wants to do it, he needs Starlink money. He’s bet the whole sat constellation on flying BFR soon enough to fly at least half of those in 6 years. BFR is the only way that ever happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, tater said: 4,425 sats. Good lord. Spoiler @tater (also, do you want the posts to merge up ?) Edited April 10, 2018 by YNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekL1963 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 10 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: But also an encouraging reminder that making great big carbon composite tubes is not new technology. It’s understood well enough to pass the rigorous margins and inspections of airliner regulation. Elon’s not reinventing the wheel here, he’s just making it... bigger. 787 fuseleages don't contain cryogenic fuels nor do they routinely experience the stresses that a rocket fuselage does. Yes, he is reinventing the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Electron, while substantially smaller, is carbon fiber. It also doesn't have an expectation of propellants in the tanks for, well, years, so clearly a different animal, but certainly analogous, at least for Earth orbital operations. They have done enough wet testing, plus a scrub such that it's at least known that their tank can recycle a few times without issues. SpaceX obviously needs a tank for reuse that can take many, many recycles (and a substantial temperature change in between) while remaining intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, DerekL1963 said: 787 fuseleages don't contain cryogenic fuels nor do they routinely experience the stresses that a rocket fuselage does. Yes, he is reinventing the wheel. RocketLab Electrons do. And the same kind of carbon fiber construction has been used for a while in much smaller pressure vessels, like propane tanks. They’ve been made big before, they’ve been made rockets before, and they’ve been made high-pressure cryogenic vessels before. What SpaceX is doing is combining it all into one. Remember, they have already made a full-diameter test tank, taken it to flight pressure/temperature, and then deliberately tested it to failure. They didn’t seem to have any insurmountable problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 minute ago, CatastrophicFailure said: RocketLab Electrons do. What, BFR is going to feature metre-thick carbon fibre ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 minute ago, CatastrophicFailure said: RocketLab Electrons do. And the same kind of carbon fiber construction has been used for a while in much smaller pressure vessels, like propane tanks. They’ve been made big before, they’ve been made rockets before, and they’ve been made high-pressure cryogenic vessels before. What SpaceX is doing is combining it all into one. Remember, they have already made a full-diameter test tank, taken it to flight pressure/temperature, and then deliberately tested it to failure. They didn’t seem to have any insurmountable problems. So this is where I run out of likes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Boeing built a 5.5 m tank for NASA, actually, and the idea has been worked on at NASA for years now. https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/nasaboeing-composite-launch-vehicle-fuel-tank-scores-firsts https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/nasaboeing-composite-launch-vehicle-fuel-tank-scores-firsts I'm not saying it's mature, I expect it to be... interesting when SpaceX tries to operate this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, tater said: I'm not saying it's mature, I expect it to be... interesting when SpaceX tries to operate this thing If there’s to be an “interesting” phase, I expect it to come long before the “operating” phase. SpaceX is confident enough in their data that the thing will work that they’re already building tooling and staging it at a factory that hasn't even broken ground yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: If there’s to be an “interesting” phase, I expect it to come long before the “operating” phase. SpaceX is confident enough in their data that the thing will work that they’re already building tooling and staging it at a factory that hasn't even broken ground yet. I have no doubt it can work for some time period. I think the question is one of cycling, particularly once the heat loads on it become more substantial. The principle concern with composites is delamination as I understand it. Holding together for a few hours is one thing, months and years is another. If nothing happens but a BFingRocket flying---that's interesting, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, tater said: I have no doubt it can work for some time period. I think the question is one of cycling, particularly once the heat loads on it become more substantial. The principle concern with composites is delamination as I understand it. Holding together for a few hours is one thing, months and years is another. If nothing happens but a BFingRocket flying---that's interesting, too! True enough, and here I look to the 787 again as the archetype. You’ve got 650+ airframes in commercial service going through thousands of pressure cycles (its perhaps worth noting that the 787 operates at slightly higher cabin pressure than other airliners, the why escapes me ATM but it’s related to their use of composites), with some of them in the air for nine years now. Granted, it’s not the same data points as a rocket, but’s it’s a lot of them, and a huge pool of information to extrapolate from even if SpaceX can only go off what’s publicly available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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