Reactordrone Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Wjolcz said: I wouldn't expect the legs to be attached on time. It's all for the looks for now anyway. What does this even mean? Is he dissing SpaceX, ULA, or both? Or maybe he's promising things will get done faster under his administration? Yeah, it's a bit of a weird statement. It's like complaining about your car repair schedule when you find out your mechanic is building a hotrod in his spare time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Eric Berger commented on it to not take it as a shot at SpaceX, that Bridenstine meant it as a message to all contractors, and Bridenstine retweeted that, so maybe it was just not well crafted (government officials sending out poorly written tweets is probably a law or something these days, right?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 2 hours ago, tater said: He's signalling to Shelby, et al, likely. Our resident New Mexican tuber hits it right on the head here. Maybe even Bridn Bidan Brahnk-n-shteen sees the writing on the walls, now. If Starship is successful, if it becomes an operational system, SLS is obsolete overnight. Even in the current political system, there will simply be no way to justify its cost if SpaceX can deliver dozens, even a hundred tons directly to the lunar surface for a bare fraction. And Kerm forbid if Starship does this or even reaches orbit before SLS ever launches. The statement is a very, er, diplomatic way of saying to Shelby, “y’all better make dang sure we get the funding we need to reach the moon by 2024, or your constituents may be out of a job. And if they are, guess who follows.... AND... it may already be too late.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Yeah, I agree. I'm a huge fan of this project (SS/SH), obviously, for the audacity and pure speed of it. Still, I don't see it landing on the Moon any time soon. I think they have a great chance of making an orbital version with a large payload. I think they can probably figure out the EDL issues and land it, but I think that might take quite some time to do. 2 a year to play with, and a good chance of breaking them spectacularly on each landing attempt. Refilling operations require 2 at once, too. Still, it it makes orbit in the next year or so, it's bad, bad mojo for SLS, particularly if they tell people what development cost (which will be horrifyingly low compared to SLS). All that said, SS is not a crew vehicle, and won't be for a (long) while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Apparently, Musk unfollowed Bridenstine right after his announcement. Huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, tater said: Still, I don't see it landing on the Moon any time soon. The further out one pushes the metric, the more likely for SpaceX to get there first, I think. I think it’s highly unlikely that SLS flies before 2021—a major problem during the Green Run tests would be devastating—so that gives SpaceX a fair amount of time to turn Starship into something functional, a good year and a half at least. I wouldn’t put it past them to send one around the moon if they can, just because they can. It would be some great data, after all. Even if there’s no crew on board, or even accommodations for crew, that’s a huge slap in the face. Stretch things out three more years, and NASA will still be farting around with a tollbooth and a tiny lander while SpaceX’s “lander” is already most of the way there, and with plenty of actual flight data, too. And if they pull off Dear Moon in that time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) Yeah, it's gonna make AL look really bad. They're gunning for late 2020 still for SLS, and I certainly don't want any more delays (we pay a couple billion dollars every year they screw up, fly or no fly). Edited September 28, 2019 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadebenn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 3 hours ago, sevenperforce said: Of course if SpaceX was allowed to build Dragon 2 in the middle of a field it might have been flying crew for two years now...... Are we just going to forget the RUD that was caught because of NASA-mandated testing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jadebenn said: Are we just going to forget the RUD that was caught because of NASA-mandated testing? That test was not NASA mandated. Crew Dragon spacecraft are never to be reused by NASA, there is no reason to do the ground test on a previously flown vehicle for NASA, it was SpaceX doing what they do (a static fire) in anticipation of the MaxQ abort (same failure would have happened, but at vastly higher cost). Boeing had their own LES issue as well, minus the leaked video, or indeed any transparency at all. Regarding Bridensine's crappy comment, he knows, as does NASA, that literally no one working on Crew Dragon is working on Starship. Dracos and Super Dracos? Not on SS, no one there from Dragon. Crew/life support stuff? Nope, no crew, none of those people. Flight operations in FL for MaxQ abort (with a NET date in November)? Nope. Nothing about the work to get Crew Dragon ready is impacted by SS in the least. Edited September 28, 2019 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 If Musk manages to shut down SLS, he will be in some trouble. So, unless he manages to find sufficient job replacements for all those SLS contractors, sub contractors and sub-sub contractors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, sh1pman said: Apparently, Musk unfollowed Bridenstine right after his announcement. Huh. really? @_@ 4 minutes ago, Xd the great said: If Musk manages to shut down SLS, he will be in some trouble. So, unless he manages to find sufficient job replacements for all those SLS contractors, sub contractors and sub-sub contractors... Musk in trouble for SLS being not competitive, over budget and behind schedule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, Dale Christopher said: Musk in trouble for SLS being not competitive, over budget and behind schedule? Because, banned stuff from this forum. Politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 3 hours ago, magnemoe said: Granted its reasons for these rigid rules, people has died after all. I find this all to be rather thin gruel, coming from NASA, who in 1981 strapped Crippen and Young into a heretofore untested vehicle, and wished them luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Nothalogh said: I find this all to be rather thin gruel, coming from NASA, who in 1981 strapped Crippen and Young into a heretofore untested vehicle, and wished them luck. They had the blessings of the Senate. SpaceX Crew Dragon does not. Anyway, space shuttle did not have an abort system (you call those ejection seats abort system), so lets hope Crew Dragon abort turns out fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Xd the great said: Because, banned stuff from this forum. Politics. As Sydney Camm said of the TSR-2: "All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR-2 simply got the first three right." And as the endless circular development programs at NASA, since the exit of Von Braun, have proven, the fourth is the only one that actually matters. Edited September 28, 2019 by Nothalogh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadebenn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Xd the great said: If Musk manages to shut down SLS You know, the fact that people seriously still think this is going to happen shows how divorced from reality that segment of the fandom is. 6 minutes ago, Xd the great said: SpaceX Crew Dragon does not. Please. If they didn't have "the blessings of the Senate," they wouldn't be getting NASA funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Just now, jadebenn said: You know, the fact that people seriously still think this is going to happen shows how divorced from reality that segment of the fandom is. The SLS can't die, because it was never alive. It will simply be rolled into a new development program, just as its predecessors were, ad infinitum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadebenn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Just now, Nothalogh said: The SLS can't die, because it was never alive. It will simply be rolled into a new development program, just as its predecessors were, ad infinitum. So said the same people in 2014. And 2015. And 2016. And 2017. And 2018. And 2019. And (presumably) in 2020. Meanwhile SLS continues to get built, and more and more are procured. The block-buy contract is going to happen fairly soon. That will fill out the launch manifest for the next decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, jadebenn said: So said the same people in 2014. And 2015. And 2016. And 2017. And 2018. And 2019. And (presumably) in 2020. Meanwhile SLS continues to get built, and more and more are procured. The block-buy contract is going to happen fairly soon. That will fill out the launch manifest for the next decade. Interesting that all of this is supposition of future events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadebenn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Nothalogh said: Interesting that all of this is supposition of future events. There was a block buy of Orion spacecraft announced earlier this week. Apparently you didn't hear about it, but they've signed a contract with Lockheed Martin that fulfills all NASA's Orion orders for the next decade. Unless you're alleging that NASA is going to suddenly revive the alternate launcher study after rather decisively trashing the idea a few months ago, they're going to need SLS cores to launch those on. Edited September 28, 2019 by jadebenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 minute ago, jadebenn said: There was a block buy of Orion spacecraft announced earlier this week. Apparently you didn't hear about it, but they've signed a contract with Lockheed Martin that fulfills all NASA's Orion orders for the next decade. Unless you're alleging that NASA is going to suddenly revive the alternate launcher study after rather decisively trashing the idea a few months ago, they're going to need SLS cores to launch those on. Call us when it flies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadebenn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Just now, Nothalogh said: Call us when it flies Touche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, jadebenn said: Touche. No, seriously, I wasn't even old enough to drive when they started promising us this was just around the corner. At some point one has to begin to suspect malfeasance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadebenn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Nothalogh said: No, seriously, I wasn't even old enough to drive when they started promising us this was just around the corner. At some point one has to begin to suspect malfeasance. Neither was I when SpaceX promised they'd send crew to the ISS soon™, yet I'm old enough to drink now. Edited September 28, 2019 by jadebenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, jadebenn said: Neither was I when they promised they'd send crew to the ISS, yet I'm old enough to drink now. We've already been over this. NASA hamstrings such programs so as to make them infinite development programs for the various contractors to farm tax dollars from. The fact that SpaceX has produced the whole system of flight ready hardware, is astounding. A sane society would demand an independent investigation of NASA, its contractors, and its congressional oversight. Looking at the last forty years of NASA, a reasonable man would be forced to conclude that something is amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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