Is this an SSTO to everywhere or not?

[Kergarin]

I hope this is the correct part of the forum for this question 

Some may have seen my newest grand tour, featuring a stock ship that can endlessly reusable travel between (and land on) every moon and planet:

https://youtu.be/iIuSCWxPZm4

Some viewers call it the first real SSTO to everywhere, SSTE/A or something like that.

But I'm hesitating to do so  because at Eve I split up into a lander which is then recovered by an orbiter from a suborbital trajectory. Doesn't this disqualify it from being an SSTE/A, even it is completely recovered?

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Kergarin

[MiffedStarfish]

Well technically you GOT to everywhere with a single stage, so I would count it as SSTE, and you never expended any parts.  I would say you are completely justified calling it that. 

[NSEP]

Yeah, it definitely is! Nice job by the way!

[JoeNapalm]

 

Man. I was going to start working on a planetary base, but I think I'm now inspired to do a Grand Tour!

 

Very nice! Very nice indeed!

 

-Jn-

[Kergarin]

2 hours ago, MiffedStarfish said:

Well technically you GOT to everywhere with a single stage, so I would count it as SSTE, and you never expended any parts.  I would say you are completely justified calling it that. 

2 hours ago, NSEP said:

Yeah, it definitely is! Nice job by the way!

Thanks  hm...nothing negative so far... Maybe I will start calling it so soon 

27 minutes ago, JoeNapalm said:

 

Man. I was going to start working on a planetary base, but I think I'm now inspired to do a Grand Tour!

 

Very nice! Very nice indeed!

 

-Jn-

Thanks 

If you like more inspiration there is also my old SSTO Spaceplane based grand tour, which has disposable landers for Eve and Tylo, and it does fly and land in different ways depending on the atmosphere and gravity. So it's a lot more variation than my new one  https://youtu.be/zoD9ieXHls

[JoeNapalm]

 

The STS challenge had just convinced me my SSTO-focus was misguided.

This clearly showed I just have a lot to learn.

I can crank out an SSTO fairly easily that can put a satellite in orbit or maybe goto the Mun and back...this is a whole different order of magnitude.

 

-Jn-

[Kergarin]

56 minutes ago, JoeNapalm said:

 

The STS challenge had just convinced me my SSTO-focus was misguided.

This clearly showed I just have a lot to learn.

I can crank out an SSTO fairly easily that can put a satellite in orbit or maybe goto the Mun and back...this is a whole different order of magnitude.

 

-Jn-

Well, without ISRU this SSTO just makes it to Minmus.
But i have two Duna Cargo SSTOs using a different approach than usual Duna SSTOs.

[Foxster]

It's your game, so can call your ships what you like

I'd be a tad wary though of saying to the community that it is an SSTO that can go to all bodies. I'd say that the general criteria for that would be something that stays in one piece for the trip. 

Not that it is not a achievement as it is though, with it being the most practical way to do it (so far). 

[Kergarin]

13 hours ago, Foxster said:

...

I'd say that the general criteria for that would be something that stays in one piece for the trip.

...

Yes, that's what still stops me from calling it so. 

But thanks 

[Moach]

I'd call it a one-and-a-half stage to anywhere...

 

very nice hybrid solution - the idea of a booster ring that you leave in orbit and return to pick it up is quite ingenious - kudos!

Edited May 24, 2017 by Moach

[helaeon]

All I can say is wow. I'm pretty impressed with the Eve part... I think it counts. To me it's the not ditching of any parts. That you break the ship in two for the Eve landing I don't think is a big deal because you meet back up again to reassemble the ship.

[Speeding Mullet]

Whatever you call it, that is both beautiful and elegant in its simplicity of design, and a great solution to the grand tour.  Very nicely produced video too!

Congratulations - You never need to build anything else in KSP now you have this .

SM

[Rune]

Dude, you tamed Eve. And you did it using Rhinos! Mad math skillz there, many kudos deserved!

 

Rune. Not seeing nukes in there was the most disconcerting thing of it all.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Rune

[Val]

It is an SSTO, because it gets To Orbit without staging or splitting up, but it's not SSTE/A if it splits up at any point later.

The definition for Single Stage is a craft that does not shed any parts, even if it gets those parts back later.

However, it does make the craft fully reusable.

Anyway, the craft you made looks great and is a huge accomplishment. Awesome. 

[Whackjob]

I never did a grand tour, much less an SSTE.  One day, I'll get around to doing one, I hope.  Except it won't be single stage nothing.  A tower lander, for every surface!  Spent stages and trash everywhere!  It could be fun.

Very well done, Kergarin.  That's a brag-worthy feat of engineering.

[Mastikator]

Ok that was super impressive. Nice

[JoeNapalm]

4 hours ago, Whackjob said:

I never did a grand tour, much less an SSTE.  One day, I'll get around to doing one, I hope.  Except it won't be single stage nothing.  A tower lander, for every surface!  Spent stages and trash everywhere!  It could be fun.

Very well done, Kergarin.  That's a brag-worthy feat of engineering.

You got kudos from Whackjob!

Get that post made into a tattoo!!

 

-Jn-

[Kergarin]

17 hours ago, Moach said:

I'd call it a one-and-a-half stage to anywhere...

Thanks. That's also a good idea 

14 hours ago, Rune said:

Dude, you tamed Eve. And you did it using Rhinos! Mad math skillz there, many kudos deserved!

 

Rune. Not seeing nukes in there was the most disconcerting thing of it all.

Thanks! I had to blance the orbiter between the agility to catch the lander and the endurance to get to get to Gilly, and also needed high efficient engines to make it to Moho, Rhinos where the perfect match.  they have the highest Isp of all conventional engines in the game and enough thrust for the job.

In my first grand tour I was using nukes. I had to do burns of 40minutes an more, and that in an old 32bit KSP version plus ~400parts, so the burns where hours of real time. So I kept my fingers away from them 

14 hours ago, Val said:

It is an SSTO, because it gets To Orbit without staging or splitting up, but it's not SSTE/A if it splits up at any point later.

The definition for Single Stage is a craft that does not shed any parts, even if it gets those parts back later.

However, it does make the craft fully reusable.

Anyway, the craft you made looks great and is a huge accomplishment. Awesome. 

Yes, makes sense by this definition.

Thanks 

12 hours ago, Whackjob said:

I never did a grand tour, much less an SSTE.  One day, I'll get around to doing one, I hope.  Except it won't be single stage nothing.  A tower lander, for every surface!  Spent stages and trash everywhere!  It could be fun.

Very well done, Kergarin.  That's a brag-worthy feat of engineering.

Thanks! This sounds interesting too, and it will be less boring to watch than the same ship landing again and again. Would like to see this 

8 hours ago, JoeNapalm said:

You got kudos from Whackjob!

Get that post made into a tattoo!!

 

-Jn-

Ist this so rare?

Edited May 24, 2017 by Kergarin

[JoeNapalm]

17 hours ago, Kergarin said:

Ist this so rare?

Nah, you just have a veritable who's-who of the epic builders admiring your ship.

Having Whackjob tell you you've performed a "brag-worthy feat of engineering" is kind of like having Sherlock Holmes tell you you're "very observant."

-Jn-

[Slugy]

That is both very impressive, and a nice looking design!

As a single stage can only barely ascend from Eve (and SSTA descriptions generally exclude Eve ascent altogether)  I think you can be justified in calling it a fully recoverable SSTA, with a note on the split for Eve.

The Val->Tylo trip was when I was really surprised, and realised just how much dV you had, is it around 6k on the Rhinos only?

 

p.s. Many quicksaves used for that Eve ascent/docking?

[suicidejunkie]

If you read the fine print in the acronym, Single Stage To Anywhere does not guarantee a return to KSC, so Eve ascent is optional.

[John FX]

Of course the real question is when will we see this craft on the spacecraft exchange so we can try it out?

[Kergarin]

On 25.5.2017 at 6:44 PM, JoeNapalm said:

Nah, you just have a veritable who's-who of the epic builders admiring your ship.

Having Whackjob tell you you've performed a "brag-worthy feat of engineering" is kind of like having Sherlock Holmes tell you you're "very observant."

-Jn-

Ok, you are right. It is truly a honour. Big thanks to all of you 

On 25.5.2017 at 7:09 PM, Slugy said:

That is both very impressive, and a nice looking design!

As a single stage can only barely ascend from Eve (and SSTA descriptions generally exclude Eve ascent altogether)  I think you can be justified in calling it a fully recoverable SSTA, with a note on the split for Eve.

The Val->Tylo trip was when I was really surprised, and realised just how much dV you had, is it around 6k on the Rhinos only?

 

p.s. Many quicksaves used for that Eve ascent/docking?

Thanks!

I can't tell, because I never had a dV display in the game. 

The most quicksaves where while designing it, figuring out the out the launch window and the optimal height and angle. But while recording it, there were also "a few" 

On 25.5.2017 at 7:16 PM, suicidejunkie said:

If you read the fine print in the acronym, Single Stage To Anywhere does not guarantee a return to KSC, so Eve ascent is optional.

Hm, makes sense, it does not say Single Stage from anywhere 

1 hour ago, John FX said:

Of course the real question is when will we see this craft on the spacecraft exchange so we can try it out?

It is already here: 

https://kerbalx.com/KergarinAerospace/Kergarin-Aerospace---Omega

Please read the instructions. Especially setting the control to the right point is important.

[Johnny Wishbone]

Props, dude. Very cool design.

[Hodari]

On 5/25/2017 at 1:16 PM, suicidejunkie said:

If you read the fine print in the acronym, Single Stage To Anywhere does not guarantee a return to KSC, so Eve ascent is optional.

Well, if you want to get technical, the vessel was split before landing on Eve, so if Eve is included in the definition, it still doesn't qualify as an SSTA unless it can at least land there in one piece(which I'm guessing this vessel probably is capable of at least, but hasn't been demonstrated yet).  On the other hand, most of the time Eve DOES seem to be excluded from this and being able to return from Eve at all is extremely impressive, let alone doing so with a fully reusable vessel that can go everywhere else as well.

Whatever you want to call it, that is a really nice design there.