[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

[John Nowak]

So here is a question. I always think I have a good spread of sats but then I go fly a mission and when I return I find my sats are slowly clumping together. How do you get good coverage and keep your sats all in perfect orbit together. Or will I always have to realign my sat setup every mission?

Satellites in formation will tend to drift out of formation. This is a real world problem and is the reason why satellites are often abandoned once they run out of maneuvering fuel.

[Gary_P]

I've seen some confused on the flight computer and I wanted to show something I found. If you click on surface, you get more options that will keep your ship straight on takeoff, like the SAS only better.

I'm confused as to what that light is next to the roll. It seems to change color when clicked but I don't see it doing anything.

I've played with the bottom section but not the top. If someone can share something on how to work with those I'd appreciate it.

[Kimberly]

Satellites in formation will tend to drift out of formation. This is a real world problem and is the reason why satellites are often abandoned once they run out of maneuvering fuel.

More specifically, any satellites whose orbit isn't perfectly identical will drift out of formation. If you can do it accurately enough, it's not a major problem. (If you have a geosynchronous satellite with orbital time 06:00:00.1, for example, it will take 600 orbits around Kerbin for the satellite to shift one degree in longitude.)

[Castun]

The real world problem is also due to the fact that even in Earth orbit, the Moon, Sun, and other planets all exert a small amount of influence. Over time, this and gravitational friction, affects and degrades the orbit. All of which is not modeled in KSP.

[Moon Goddess]

Thank you soo soooo much for the instructional video it's the first time I've been able to see what I was doing wrong.

I kept reading the instructions and thinking "I'm doing that" watching the video I learn I was putting the numbers in the wrong place

[Dappa]

Many thanks for this mod: it adds a lot of challenge and fun to the game. I'm presently trying a no-probecore game, and I'm having a lot of fun with it.

I did have a few suggestions, though.

2) The Range rules seem to assume there is no such thing as a more powerful transmitter -- suggest that the ranges of the two antennas be added instead of using the smaller of the two. The ranges of existing systems might then be cut in two to preserve the gameplay.

Now that's an excellent idea!

[JDP]

...I'm confused as to what that light is next to the roll. It seems to change color when clicked but I don't see it doing anything.

I've played with the bottom section but not the top. If someone can share something on how to work with those I'd appreciate it.

The small light is a toggle which is off by default. Normally the attitude computer ignores roll values, just keeps your roll on killrot. If you turn the toggle on, the specified roll values suddenly matter. This is only really useful when using the flight computer to control spaceplanes.

On another note:

Cilph has done some great work on minimizing the GUI. We had a quick brainstorming session, and here's what we came up with to replace the entire main RemoteTech in-flight GUI:

(Work in progress)

the new main flight GUI extends the stock timewarp panel and gives you all the most necessary information at a glance, and direct access to the flight computer. You are going to get so much more space to look at

Edited July 2, 2013 by JDP

[Gary_P]

Thank you soo soooo much for the instructional video it's the first time I've been able to see what I was doing wrong.

I kept reading the instructions and thinking "I'm doing that" watching the video I learn I was putting the numbers in the wrong place

I saw your post and was thinking to myself "what video?" I went back a few pages and found it. I don't know how I missed it.

It's amazing! It ansered my question of how do you get past the out of range burn. I didn't know about the deltaV switchover. I'm gonna go play.

Thanks so much for the video, and please make more if you have other features.

They didn't make a remote camera mod did they?

[Guest crlfe]

Very nice. This stirs in a bit of cool complexity, without being overwhelming. The flight computer is pretty darned good as-is, and the new design looks awesome.

Figuring out my first Kerbin network was hard. Once that was done, setting up the Mun took one launch <http://i.imgur.com/o2m3V1B.jpg> (that's a lander and orbiter with four dishes each, plus four relay microsatellites).

Am running into a bug where keys pressed while renaming a ship are also interpreted as control commands (every time I press left-shift to upper-case something, I screw up the orbit). Have not yet verified that's RemoteTech. Is there an easy way to disable the key interception to test it?

Few thoughts:

* The range feels too long. My satellites around Mun don't have dishes, but usually communicate directly with the ones around Kerbin rather than bouncing through their lander base-station.

* Relaying feels too easy. Is there a way to have probe-sized sensor processors that can only receive, without allowing them to relay? Could cheap sensor processors add latency to a relay? (The latter seems a good excuse to have a second tier of fast sensor processors that are expensive, power-hungry and heavy).

* Would definitely support the parts burning more power. Not sure if power is actually simulated when a ship is not active, which sort of defeats the point (I'm pretty sure my Mun lander is already short on batteries to last the night). If it's not simulated, is anyone working on a plugin to add it?

* Reorienting dishes manually is a pain. Would like to propose two auto-aiming behaviors:

a) Target active ship: If this ship has a control connection, this dish will point at whatever ship the user is currently controlling.

Target best signal: If this ship is being controlled by the user, this dish will point at the lowest-latency incoming signal.

At the moment, I do (a) manually every time I launch a new ship, and install extra dishes so that I can avoid having to change target for (. You would still need to manually target pairs of dishes for long-lived relay links, so I don't think this makes it too automatic. Might make sense for ( to require some sort of directional-signal-sensing module to balance it against multiple receiving dishes.

* The source on github looks old. Is it worth taking a look to see what's possible, or should I wait until your next code drop?

[jdmgto]

Is it possible to use the parts without the plugin?

[xZise]

It appears to me, that it won't check if there is a connection when the information window is closed. I had the window closed and got to a ship which was most likely out of range but it still worked. So I opened the window and it said no connection and I was unable to control the vessel. Now of course it could be possible that this was a coincidence but it happened at least twice and in one case I forgot to add an omnidirectional antenna, so it shouldn't even be able to lift off. (all unmanned)

Fabian

[Azivegu]

hey, is there a fix for when you lose contact inside the atmosphere that you cant cancel the mission and cant go to the space center, whether or not you are moving? Because it is really annoying.

Besides that I would like to see a part that receives communications and can send back, but cant relay. Dont like it when I use my telescopes to relay info when I have a dedicated network.

And on an end note, AWESOME MOD!!! Love it.

[VivaDaylight3]

Hi, I recently launched a communication centre/command (see the first picture) into a geostationary orbit around Kerbin and then continued to launch communication satellites (see the second picture) into orbit around Kerbin for relaying signals to nearby unmanned flights. My communications centre is designed to send signals to flights sent to Minmus and the Mün that are outside of the KSC's reach, but neither seem to be sending any signals at all. I have attached an additional image of what my Kerbin orbit currently looks like.

Here, you see my network while it was working, the station at the top is my ComCen (communications centre) and the probes around Kerbin are my ComSats that should relay signals to nearby satellites or probes (which they were doing but aren't any longer).

Here's my CommCen, in case you wanted to know how it was set-up, I have confirmed that it has enough power to run and its power generation is functioning.

Here's one of my ComSats above KSC (check the planet in the background), as you can see, it hasn't got a signal but it should as it has an antenna and is right above the KSC.

Does anyone have any ideas on why it's not working?

[VivaDaylight3]

Hi, I recently launched a communication centre/command (see the first picture) into a geostationary orbit around Kerbin and then continued to launch communication satellites (see the second picture) into orbit around Kerbin for relaying signals to nearby unmanned flights. My communications centre is designed to send signals to flights sent to Minmus and the Mün that are outside of the KSC's reach, but neither seem to be sending any signals at all. I have attached an additional image of what my Kerbin orbit currently looks like.

Here, you see my network while it was working, the station at the top is my ComCen (communications centre) and the probes around Kerbin are my ComSats that should relay signals to nearby satellites or probes (which they were doing but aren't any longer).

Here's my CommCen, in case you wanted to know how it was set-up, I have confirmed that it has enough power to run and its power generation is functioning.

Here's one of my ComSats above KSC (check the planet in the background), as you can see, it hasn't got a signal but it should as it has an antenna and is right above the KSC.

Does anyone have any ideas on why it's not working?

[Kimberly]

I have a request for the Flight Computer: could it get an orientation option for your current target, e.g. pointing at the Mun when you have it targeted? This would be immensely helpful with telescope mods and the like, where getting a manual fix on far-away objects can be nearly impossible.

[MR4Y]

I generally use Dish antennas on mine. About 3 to 4 for each satellite.

[John Nowak]

The real world problem is also due to the fact that even in Earth orbit, the Moon, Sun, and other planets all exert a small amount of influence. Over time, this and gravitational friction, affects and degrades the orbit. All of which is not modeled in KSP.

True enough, although it remains a real-world and Kerbal problem.

The initial placement of the satellites is key, and Kepler's Third is a big help in that. Take a vehicle with three satellites, circularize your orbit at the altitude you want, adjust your orbit so your new period is an appropriate fraction of the existing one, and you're set.

I wanted to put three satellites evenly placed 200km above the moon. My carrier dropped its periaps to 155, wait four orbits, and then circularize and deploy. The largest error was about 1/5 of a degree.

[JDP]

...Here, you see my network while it was working, the station at the top is my ComCen (communications centre) and the probes around Kerbin are my ComSats that should relay signals to nearby satellites or probes (which they were doing but aren't any longer)...

...Does anyone have any ideas on why it's not working?

Your comsats seem to all have their antennae turned off. How this happened is beyond me. Since you don't have a connection with them, you'll have to launch manned rescue missions and turn the antennae on from EVA. That, or use the cheats. If you open the cheat menu (modifier key + f12) you can enable infinite EVA fuel. Doing this will also enable a hidden RemoteTech cheat where every RT ship get's a connection. Even if they don't even have antennae.

[betaking]

is there any way to make this play nicer with mission controller?

I mean like communitrons are impossible to use during liftoff because they fall off, or lack the range necessary to get into orbit.

perhaps if they had a range (undeployed) of 60 km or so instead of 2km, they would be better

Edited July 4, 2013 by betaking

[Kimberly]

Do antennas need to be in range of each other? I have a great network of communication satellites using the 5000km range antennas, but my GPS satellites that use the 250km antenna seem to not have any connection. The 250km antennas are kind of useless if you can't use them this way...

[somnambulist]

Do antennas need to be in range of each other? I have a great network of communication satellites using the 5000km range antennas, but my GPS satellites that use the 250km antenna seem to not have any connection. The 250km antennas are kind of useless if you can't use them this way...

Yes -- the communication link is only as good as the shortest range antenna, in this case 250km. The 250km antenna is handy for giving remote control to a vehicle that isn't otherwise controllable (e.g., making a manned rover remote controllable without adding a separate probe core).

[Castun]

is there any way to make this play nicer with mission controller?

I mean like communitrons are impossible to use during liftoff because they fall off, or lack the range necessary to get into orbit.

perhaps if they had a range (undeployed) of 60 km or so instead of 2km, they would be better

Use the standard dipole antenna, it doesn't require deployment and has a range of 5Mm (5,000km) which is plenty to get you into orbit while still being in LoS of KSC.

Do antennas need to be in range of each other? I have a great network of communication satellites using the 5000km range antennas, but my GPS satellites that use the 250km antenna seem to not have any connection. The 250km antennas are kind of useless if you can't use them this way...

Which antenna only has a 250km range?

[betaking]

Use the standard dipole antenna, it doesn't require deployment and has a range of 5Mm (5,000km) which is plenty to get you into orbit while still being in LoS of KSC.

congratulations! you missed my point entirely!

[Hremsfeld]

That made me laugh more than it probably should have. I agree, though; the communitron being destroyed if open and virtually useless if closed on ascent isn't a good place to be. I modified my .cfg to have it work to 100km when closed; I like your 60km (or 50, even? When are solar panels safe?) range better, because you have to actually deploy them.

[VivaDaylight3]

Your comsats seem to all have their antennae turned off. How this happened is beyond me. Since you don't have a connection with them, you'll have to launch manned rescue missions and turn the antennae on from EVA. That, or use the cheats. If you open the cheat menu (modifier key + f12) you can enable infinite EVA fuel. Doing this will also enable a hidden RemoteTech cheat where every RT ship get's a connection. Even if they don't even have antennae.

Thanks! I'll send a maintenance mission right away, or de-orbit them and relaunch them, as I've come up with a better and more precise satellite delivery system. Originally I would launch each new satellite from Kerbin approx. 45 degrees away from the last one to get good spacing, but by using an orbital delivery system (a vehicle which orbits the body and then decouples each satellite in its applicable position), I'll get better spacing and it will eliminate the need to use a launch vehicle for each satellite.