[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

[Black-Talon]

Thanks for the awesome mod. I know I was considering the following today as well. So +1 to the request.

Any chance of having a way of collapsing the Relay Information Window more? I like the idea of having them collapse down into little icons like Chatterer and ISA Mapsat does - messing with right-click menus is a little clumsy methinks.

I'd enjoy:

1. A close/open button for "Comms status" - like Kerbal Alarm Clock or Kerbal Crew Manifest (allows me to configure the position so it doesn't conflict with other buttons)

2. A configurable hot-key to open/close (Alt+F11 is nice to bring up the config - configure a hot key here?)

3. Allow for the right-click menu option to be configured to an action (similar to what TAC Fuel Balancer has)

[Frostiken]

I've made a new set of launches and I think you're right. I think I didn't get all the way out of warp or just missed hitting the send button in time. I launched 2x TDRS satellites last night and had no problem putting them in orbit working only with KSC active. Got the first one in orbit over KSC and was able to at least put the second one into Kerbostationary orbit although I need to spend some time phasing it into the right orbit 120* off the first (it's only about 50* off right now). It is still really satisfying, even using MechJeb2 to plan the maneuver points (and make a few of the maneuvers) to be able to successfully start launching these satellites into orbit knowing that one false move means I lose the satellite forever.

I'm trying to use the maneuver 'scheduler'. I don't have a problem with the engine firing - but why doesn't the probe orient to the maneuver node when I told the flight computer to do exactly that? It does it BEFORE I warp when I'm still in comm range - but AFTER I warp, to just before the engine firing plan I programmed, when it's not in comm status, it no longer orients itself.

It was only luck that it oriented itself properly enough to get into a somewhat correct orbit, but I think if I tell the Flight Computer to point to the node it should do so all the time, regardless of comm status... that's the entire point of the thing after all.

A more robust flight programmer would be ideal though. Point to this node, fire for x seconds, then point to this thing, fire for y seconds.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Frostiken

[Camacha]

A more robust flight programmer would be ideal though. Point to this node, fire for x seconds, then point to this thing, fire for y seconds.

That would add a lot of realism and depth indeed!

[Space ghöst]

Yay! Finally getting in some real game time. It's nice to take a break from modding sometimes.

Been trying to replicate all my ships from 0.18.

http://i.imgur.com/rZporxM.png

This heavy miner landed quite safely. It has the remote command module, life support, various kethane mods, some modified ion engines, and other gadgets. The fuel routing needs improving, as two engines cut out during my decent, but at least the five left kept me alive. It's also slow going when mining due to power constraints -- that'll change.

Also, a new update to my RT-V is coming out soon.

http://i.imgur.com/tfTkLyK.jpg

The current cargo hold is different then this shot, but it gives you an idea of what's in store. I've added a science module and impulse engine (uses electricity and liquid fuel), cleaned up some textures, added DEMV D.R.O.P compatibility, and added some awesome new features that JDP and Alchemist have been cooking up in their laboratories.

[PoppinC]

Hey, I love the mod!

One quick question, is it possible to disable the kill-rot that remote tech parts have built in? It seems to override the avionics package which makes it pretty tricky to fly my poorly designed aircraft! (Apologies if this has been asked before and I missed it!)

[ChronicSilence]

Great mod. Quick question regarding MechJeb though: what's the point of using RemoteTech at all if you want to use mechjeb too? It seems that having MJ on a probe removes any delay in the controls (e.g. I can throttle up or use any of the "prograde", "retrograde", etc. buttons on "Smart A.S.S." and it happens instantly). Is there any way to still use MJ but have the proper delays before it works?

[Senshi]

If you enable "MechJeb Control" in the RemoteTech window, Mechjeb will be able to perform autopilot maneuvers. If those were delayed, MJ would constantly miss maneuver nodes and everything would end up in a horrible mess. However, "user" input by you will still be delayed. Is it possible you simply don't have a long enough relay distance to have a noticeable delay? Remember that Remotetech signals travel at the speed of light, so operations on Minmus usually end up with 0.3-0.5 seconds delay. That is not much.

[ChronicSilence]

If I enable "MechJeb Control", I can control the throttle instantly. I am on the verge of escaping the solar system, and the window says a 30 minute delay, so that's not it.

I understand that MechJeb needs to be able to respond instantly for autopilot things, and that's what an autopilot does, but me telling the autopilot what to do (such as hitting the "prograde" button) should be subject to the delay. i.e., any command I send (including clicking buttons) should be delayed, anything the plugin sends should not. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case.

[Space ghöst]

Re: Mechjeb Delay,

Sadly I cannot implement signal delays in other mods. I've implemented an interface into RemoteTech to make it possible for other modders to implement signal delays themselves in case their mod is used with RemoteTech.

Things may have changed since then, but don't quote me on it. I believe this would be something you'd either have to bring up to r4m0n or code yourself.

@PoppinC -- Sorry, wish I had a good answer. So far I'm guessing you can't. But I'm sure JDP or someone can better answer you soon.

Most of my piloted craft uses Mechjeb and RT, anything unmanned is strictly RT. I also haven't tested any "poorly" designed aircraft. Personally, I like to call them aerodynamically challenged.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Spaceghöst

[Fyrem]

<snip>what's the point of using RemoteTech at all if you want to use mechjeb too <snip>

This situation requires the player to maintain a Radio link to the craft. But does allow MJ commands to happen instantly IF such a link exists. MJ is locked out if the ship has no radio contact. Thus there are some advantages if MJ is installed.

This is by design choice by JDP and the player as to how they want to play KSP.

IE: how "hardmode" they really want to be.

[asmi]

Hello! Iève just tried the latest version and docking mode seems to be broken. Specifically ASAS doesn't automatically engage/disengage when I switch between rotation/translation modes...

[SirJodelstein]

great mod! I have one question: all the RemoteControl-Modules seem to have a built-in ASAS module. Why? If i need ASAS, i put a Module in. Is it possible to deactivate these? I like to fly my probes/lifters with a standard SAS only.

[VPope]

I was running some rover tests on Kerbin before launching them to the Mun, but I can't seem to get a signal to my rovers beyond a mere 2km. the rovers are equipped with remote control module and omnidirectional antenna from my command truck with a command module and at least one of every type of antenna and dish (which i even try pointing at the rover itself). the signal seems to work fine and i can control it with commands, but once it passes 2km distance from my command truck, it will lose connection soon. i'm assuming i'm just doing something dumb here... help?

[FunkyNige]

I really like this mod, but I've come across a problem getting power to the big dish along struts, I made a quick ship to demonstrate this -

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

You can see that there is plenty of electric charge left (as the ion engine is glowing) but the dish has run out of charge. Is this something wrong with the dish or something I've done wrong?

As I said, I really like the extra challenge of this mod, but can we have a smaller control unit (diameter of the ion tanks would be great) and a smaller long range dish please? I've seen in this thread that you can change a file to make all ships need to use the relay, but I'd prefer it if I could have RemoteTech on one saved game but no others.

[MaHuJa]

once it passes 2km distance from my command truck, it will lose connection

Presumably, the problem is one of the antenna going below the horizon - as the RT code is calculating it, anyway. A satellite in orbit may by able to relay between them still, and maybe it'll help if you build an extendable antenna arm on the command truck using damned robotics or similar, raising the antenna height. I made such an arm using the hinges, that folded up 8 times its "stowed" height, and put it on a polar landed beacon. Unfortunately it had landed in a valley.

but the dish has run out of charge

The internal battery doesn't have any stored power left, so it draws power from other batteries around the ship. It should still be working. In the case that you don't have much else on the ship with battery capacity, it will add 5 to that capacity.

a smaller control unit (diameter of the ion tanks would be great)

The smallest RT control unit is the small antenna you can mount radially. Use a vanilla probe core and that antenna, and it'll work like a regular command unit. Though you may want another antenna as well because it only has a 250km range.

and a smaller long range dish please?

If you edit the part.cfg of the small dish, you can extend the range. If you want "realism" or "balance" or <buzzword> you may also want to up its energy requirement to make up for the loss of antenna efficiency. A factor of 100 sounds reasonable for "realism", though it's probably still conservative.

Edited May 11, 2013 by MaHuJa

[CoriW]

Not sure if this has been asked or answered before, didn't really feel like reading 62 pages to find out...

So I've sent a base to the Mun with a large "remote command" module on it, the base primarily consists of two hitchhiker storage container (Which can hold 4 kerbals each) but even though I have the minimum requirement of 3 kerbals on board the base, I've noticed that it's not acting as a command station, because anything near it still uses the relays that connect back to KSC rather than using the command station on the Mun.

So I'm wondering if the hitchhiker storage containers don't count for remote command? I'll also add that one of my space stations has a lander can (2 kerbals) and a hitchhiker storage container (Which I have 1 kerbal in) and it does indeed function as a remote command. Or is one of the requirements for remote command to have a crew control part? (capsule, lander can, etc) If that is the case it would explain why the station works but the base doesn't, since the base has no crew control parts, just hitchhiker storage.

[Kethevin]

Hi. I have a couple questions.

1) When you say this allows you to control unmanned craft, does that mean you can place a control unit on a item that typically requires a Kerbal and control it as if there was one there? Also, if you are remotely controlling an object, do you have to have focus on it?

2) This one will get me laughed off the forums, but can someone walk me through how exactly to place satellites 90 degrees apart from one another. I'm assuming it's done by staggering the launches, but I'm not sure.

Thanks.

[Space ghöst]

Hi, Kethevin.

Yes, by attaching either an RC Antenna or Remote Control/Command module to your ship. I usually just select the remote control module from the Pods menu in the VAB, attach an antenna and dish on it, and whatever odds and ends, and send it on its way. I believe you can't control an object while you're not focused. Although you can program the flight computer to initiate timed commands for thrusting while unfocused, which you'll still (I'm guessing) be required to have a connected signal to activate and use.

As for staggering launches, that's what I'd do. Granted I made a four dish configuration that separates at a certain point, and uses the flight computer to coordinate timed burns for orbits. Just try and stagger as best as you can and then if one is too far ahead, lower your orbit to speed up and then level out, and visa versa. Not sure how far out they should be, perhaps 250km? Oh, and Mechjeb helps if you want razor close orbits.

Hope that helps. Maybe someone could explain better then myself.

[MaHuJa]

how exactly to place satellites 90 degrees apart from one another. I'm assuming it's done by staggering the launches,

Staggering the launches is one way of doing it - if you have one sat per launch vehicle. You launch the first one, figure out (measure) the launch phase angle (how far an object in the target circular orbit moves ahead of you if it was straight over you at the time you start the ascent. Then you launch the next one when the phase angle is 90+-LPA. This assumes the ascent happens identically, meaning you don't have any mishaps, you start the gravity turn at the same time AND altitude, etc.

The other way to do it, is to launch them all from the same ship.

1) Get into the orbit you want the satellites to hold

2) Release the first satellite

3) Burn prograde so you have a 1.25 times longer orbit time than the satellite.

4) When you have done the complete orbit, you're at the correct place for the next satellite.

If your sats have engines of their own, you can release it, let it burn itself into the correct orbit, and repeat that every time. If not, you'll need to slow the ship, release a sat, and burn up to your extended orbit again.

Using this method you can get them in perfect position with one ship, and this will also work well for placing satellites around other bodies than the one you launch your ships from.

I have a setup of 3 RemoteTech Microprobes around kerbin that I deployed in a perfect triangle using that method, though I naturally had to use 1.33 rather than 1.25. To maintain line of sight, they had to be some 600km up. You can be lower if you use more satellites, I just wanted to unclutter my ship lists. If you have space, you can lower your orbit instead, 1/1.25 = 0.8 times the orbit time. If you want to save dV, you can do half the difference (1.125x or 0.9x) and wait two full orbits instead of one. Or three or four.

Laughed off the forums? Hardly. This is rocket science

Edited May 12, 2013 by MaHuJa

[koksny]

great mod! I have one question: all the RemoteControl-Modules seem to have a built-in ASAS module. Why? If i need ASAS, i put a Module in. Is it possible to deactivate these? I like to fly my probes/lifters with a standard SAS only.

Had same issue, and was looking forward to fix for it too, so i did it myself (Thanks for sharing source JDP!)

RemoteTech 0.5.0.0 ASAS/SAS FlightComputer Fix: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15584520/RT_sas_fix.dll

To make it fly, just delete your old RemoteTech DLL file from plugin folder (or just delete the ".dll" part, so it wont load), and insert this instead. Worked for me.

I'm aint programmer, don't have any (any at all) clue about C#, so everything i did was just commenting every section reffering to "FlightComputer" class/function (3 days of learning to compile, read code, and find what do what. Success.). So for short, i just maimed the code to remove FlightComputer links. So FlightComputer probably don't work. Probably, in a way - probably for sure. At first i thought too, that it's the case of "including" ASAS part with RTCore part, but nope, it seems it's problem with keybinding SAS toggle with FlightComputer, which ends in "KillRot" function being toggled. That ends in not even ASAS mode, it just locks your fins totaly.

Hope it helps. Also, JDP, please make it optional choice to kill rotation/get sas torque. Almost impossible to fly spaceplanes with recent RT. Anyway, great mod, best luck with it, had a lot of fun (and got some C# knowledge too).

[razark]

2) This one will get me laughed off the forums, but can someone walk me through how exactly to place satellites 90 degrees apart from one another. I'm assuming it's done by staggering the launches, but I'm not sure.

I put my commsats on one launcher, get into orbit, and the raise my apoapsis to the target altitude. Once I get the Apoapsis in place , I release the first satellite, set a maneuver node, and circularize it. Next, I get the launch vehicle into an orbit that will meet up with the next location. Release the satellite, and wait to circularize the orbit. Wash, rinse repeat, for each satellite. Once I have all the satellites in place, I deorbit the launch vehicle and employ my secret technique.

Hyperedit the orbits to all have the same period. Because, damn it, it takes too long to get the network in place, and I'll be damned if I'm going to babysit the thing. Hyperedit may be cheating, but I view it as ground control taking charge and making sure the network stays sane.

[asmi]

Just noticed one more issue with RT & MJ2 - MJ2 doesn't take control of vessel if ASAS is engaged. Once you manually turn ASAS off, MJ starts working as it should.

[Senshi]

Thank you for the obvious, but super useful tip to use Hyperedit to sync the orbits. As I just started to leave the Kerbin SOI with some ion probes I really got fed up with the keostationary relay satellites bunching up/dispersing willy nilly over long periods of time, causing the entire relay network to break down every now and again. I actually considered to disable RemoteTech due to that. But using Hyperedit to "cheat"-sync my satellite orbits numerically perfect should hopefully allow me to dabble with interplanetary probes and their significant time delays with RT .

[SierraKhaar]

Is there any other way to sync the orbits real tight?

I have put them in a fairly good position but eventually they will.. uhh... derail?

[MaHuJa]

The problem is that "fairly good" isn't perfect. In the end it's the same problem as when you have two objects near each other but not attached to each other, they will have slightly different orbits. For each orbit, the relative positions will change just a little, say 100m. Two orbits that's up at 200m. Three orbits, 300m. 100 orbits... And that 100m initial difference per orbit is not just "fairly good". (It may be more instructive to measure this in phase angles than meters.)

In real life they continuously adjust the orbits of active satellites to keep them on track, though I believe that's also for other reasons.