How to landing leg? A base / Autostrut / explosion conundrum

[Speeding Mullet]

Preface - I've performed a perfunctory search and come up with - Lots of landing legs and auto-struts are probably not clever.  So this question is kind of a two part-er.  

Background - I am designing a stock base+ system, largely aimed at Duna and to be developed et released as a scale-able, fun, and user friendly way of building up a permanent presence on the red planet.  I've done it before, but not for general release.

Issues - I am experiencing phantom torques that wildly spin the modules apart when about 3 or more are joined.  When 2 or more are joined it tends to float over the surface or just jiggle in it's place.  Explosions.  Lot's of explosions.  Also it irritates me that I am not forced to build in a realistic way - The assembly vehicle is "glued" to the module and floats due to auto-strutting, and feels very cheaty.

Part 1 - Can you help me understand the "why"?

Part 2 - Can you help me get around, over, or under the problem.  I'm not really looking for an answer that is simply "Just don't use landing legs" here, unless it is genuinely the only way forwards at this time.  If it is, then I'd also love to hear whether this is on the cards to be fixed at all soon?  I've read bits and bobs about unity bugs and the requirement for auto-struts until unity fixes something, so it concerns me a little that base building might be kinda borked for the long term .

My thoughts - I'm sure there is a way to mitigate this, and I'd love to know what.  Should I just use half the legs so for a base module to be supported it needs two modules joined?  This still wouldn't allow me to build nearly as big as I want.  It doesn't strike me that my auto-struts are too long, but when you join two modules together, half the struts from one module flick the next as the heaviest part becomes nearer.  I wonder if this is the main cause.  Perhaps there's some clipping with the landing leg that I have missed.  I really hope that base building with landing legs is not a lost cause as I felt I was onto a good design streak here.

 

Let me fill you in on the details.  Firstly, the two modules:

 

Module 1 - When 2 are joined it floats and jitters, when 3 or more are joined it experiences wild spinning, explosions, and general tomfoolery.  4 means insta-Kraken if you can get that far.

 

Module 2 - Joining this to the structure just turned the base into a Catherine wheel.

 

So, are the days of epic bases gone?  Have I just pointed out something that has been discussed to death, talked about extensively in KSP weekly and my searching prowess needs work?  Is a fix as close as the very next update?  I hope there's a potential route to me being able to do this again, because it's a huge part of enjoying this game and I'd like for that to not be over

 

SM

 

[Spricigo]

Quote

but when you join two modules together, half the struts from one module flick the next as the heaviest part becomes nearer.  I wonder if this is the main cause. 

That is where I'd put my money (or else,  not put my money unless as a offer to the Kraken) .  If at least we could change autostrut to grandparent... 

[Hupf]

On 4.8.2017 at 4:14 PM, Spricigo said:

If at least we could change autostrut to grandparent...

With the Advanced Tweakables Setting enabled, that would be possible.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Hupf

[Spricigo]

1 hour ago, Hupf said:

With the Advanced Tweakables Setting enabled, that would be possible.

For landing legs/gears? AFAIK those are always autostruted to heaviest part. But I'll be happy to be wrong. 

[WanderingKid]

As of KSP 1.2.2, epic bases are not gone:

 

 

This was entirely built with landing legs and a rover moving parts around and connecting them up.  I have no float or kraken issues with it, but I also have no autostrutting going on.

Edited August 6, 2017 by WanderingKid
Never seem to be able to get spoiler tags right...

[Speeding Mullet]

On 8/5/2017 at 0:14 AM, Spricigo said:

That is where I'd put my money (or else,  not put my money unless as a offer to the Kraken) .  If at least we could change autostrut to grandparent... 

Hmm, maybe I will have a play around with the leg placement and see if that helps things.

 

On 8/6/2017 at 7:07 AM, Hupf said:

With the Advanced Tweakables Setting enabled, that would be possible.

I have advanced tweakables on, and unless I have missed something this isn't an option, specifically for landing legs.  Also happy to be proved wrong

 

On 8/6/2017 at 3:44 PM, WanderingKid said:

As of KSP 1.2.2, epic bases are not gone:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This was entirely built with landing legs and a rover moving parts around and connecting them up.  I have no float or kraken issues with it, but I also have no autostrutting going on.

I should probably have mentioned in the OP this is in 1.3!  I have nothing else at all strutted, it's just the legs with autostruts.  I reckon adjusting the positions of the legs (or heaviest part) as per @Spricigo may be the answer, if undesirable.  

 

I'll have a play around and report back.  If anyone else reads this and wants to provide some more information or ideas then please feel free to post

 

SM

[Foxster]

How about an arrangement of girders for the legs and blow the wheels away once in place...

Edited August 7, 2017 by Foxster

[Speeding Mullet]

5 hours ago, Foxster said:

How about an arrangement of girders for the legs and blow the wheels away once in place...

It's a good suggestion, but if this is the answer to my issue then I guess I'd rather wait until the landing legs are fixed I think .  It looks scrappy compared to landing legs, even if you've done a great job of making the cubic octagonal strut look aesthetically pleasing.  It would be a shame to have to resort to this solution and accept that landing legs are "as is" for the foreseeable future.....

EDIT: @Foxster - Your pictures did make me think that making the module longer might be a good solution.  At the moment the legs autostrut to the Mk2 crew cabin as the heaviest part, so perhaps I could place a heavier part in between two of them to extend the module, and force the landing legs to default to their own module, rather than the next one over.

SM

Edited August 7, 2017 by Speeding Mullet