WW2 BAD-T III - BDAc AI Dogfight Tournament

[tetryds]

1 hour ago, Van Disaster said:

Looks a bit off because the fuselage is way too narrow, but that's driven by the cockpit.

https://kerbalx.com/tetryds/F-86-Sabre

Just make the fuselage larger and clip the cockpit 

All fun and games until my craft gets rekt by my previously discarded Do-335. Now comes the best part.

Edited October 13, 2017 by tetryds

[Van Disaster]

Yeah, but then you get aero issues & structural issues & argh   ( also really awkward with the Meteor nose, unfortunately ).

And you're exactly where I was two days ago, apparently. Today apparently my entry craft just wants to break up on it's own, despite literally none  before I sent it in. Really fills me with confidence...

Edited October 13, 2017 by Van Disaster

[SuicidalInsanity]

Alright, just over a day left before submissions close. Get them in before midnight tomorrow.

[aleksey444]

A few questions about craft weight.

 

(1) I built my own cockpit.  In SPH, the weight of the craft is reported as one amount.  When I launch it, the weight increases by 144 kg.  These are 50 kgs of air (which disappear if I launch with closed intake) and 94 kgs of the kerbal and his EVA fuel.

The increase by 94 kgs does NOT happen with a closed cockpit, even though there is a kerbal inside.

Can I exclude the weight of the kerbal from the craft dry weight?  In other words, if my craft dry weight must be at least 2,500 kgs, can I make it 2,406 (2,500 - 94) ?

 

(2) Ammunition does not count towards the dry weight of the craft.  But does the weight of the ammo boxes (18 kgs each) count?

In other words, if the weight of my craft with *empty* ammo boxes is 2,500 kgs, is that ok?

 

(3) How much fuel, exactly?  Fuel consumption varies with speed.

According to Kerbal Engineer, my craft has 10 minutes of fuel at Mach 0, and 25 minutes of fuel at Mach 0.3.  Is this ok?

 

(4) Which timezone are we going by for the submission deadline?

 

Thanks

 

[tetryds]

@aleksey444

1&2- it should be the airplane on a "flyable" state, so yeah, kerbal and boxes weight count too.

The official dry weight should be the one measured on the map view after launch (according to BAD-T 2).

3- as much as you want, as long as it doesn't run out of fuel.

4- probably UTC, but using your own timezone should be ok.

[aleksey444]

12 minutes ago, tetryds said:

@aleksey444

1&2- it should be the airplane on a "flyable" state, so yeah, kerbal and boxes weight count too.

The official dry weight should be the one measured on the map view after launch (according to BAD-T 2).

 

Does the air in the air intake count towards dry weight?

I'd like to clarify.  Suppose I launch a craft, and on the runway, without the fuel and with  empty ammo boxes, it weighs exactly 2,500 kgs.

Does that mean that in the hangar, also without the fuel and ammo, it can weigh:

(1) 2,500 - 94 (kerbal + eva fuel) = 2,406 kgs.

or

(2) 2,500 - 94 (kerbal + eva fuel) - 50 (air in the intake) = 2,356 kgs.

or

(3) something else.

[Joseph Kerman]

Final (and legal) submission: https://kerbalx.com/The_Kerbal_Way/KF-87

Set pitch and yaw authority to 10 each.

[tetryds]

@aleksey444 look, if you are doing math, you are doing it wrong.

Imagine the nightmare if every airplane had its mass computed and compensated by hand. And that wouldn't even matter because if the mass is being accounted it counts as craft dry weight, regardless of being a kerbal or whatever else.

Mass should simply be read after removing every resource (fuel and ammo) from the aircraft, launching it and checking it out on the map view.

The mass reported on the hangar shouldn't matter at all but help on knowing how far from this threshold you are.

So, in the case you reported it's 2.5 tons and that's it.

Edited October 14, 2017 by tetryds

[SuicidalInsanity]

@aleksey444: 1) Dry mass is the weight of the craft empty of everything, just the airframe itself, which by itself, needs to weigh 2500 kg. The only things you can have on the airplane that count towards dry mass are Monopropellant, Oxidizer and Ore, if any are present to serve as ballast.  So launch it empty with the engine intake closed and without a kerbal;  the weight from the map view is it's dry mass.
2) Empty Ammo boxes count toward dry mass.
3) Something like 20-30 LF should be enough for a single engine. The 'should fly for 15 minutes' rule is mainly to prevent someone from skimping on fuel and their aircraft falling out of the sky halfway through a match as a result.
4) I'm UTC-08:00 but I'm not going to be a stickler on timing. Since I'm not going to stay up until midnight just to close submissions, as long as it's submitted before I check on Sunday morning, it'll get in.

Edited October 14, 2017 by SuicidalInsanity

[Van Disaster]

10 hours ago, Joseph Kerman said:

Final (and legal) submission: https://kerbalx.com/The_Kerbal_Way/KF-87

Set pitch and yaw authority to 10 each.

Better, couple of things:

* Reaction wheels are enabled
* Can it shoot down a dummy? having a hard time reaching min alt when I'm testing
* Does it have 15 mins of fuel? I am doubtful ( you have oxidizer on board which won't do anything ) - the fuel guideline of 30ish per engine is for props, these jets are pretty thirsty.
* As a tip, you might want to unbind some control axes from flight controls.
* Pwings need 120mm thickness minimum

This was built for FAR, right?

Edited October 14, 2017 by Van Disaster

[Guest]

will dogfights be today and how many entry's  are there?

Edited October 14, 2017 by Guest

[aleksey444]

2 hours ago, dundun93 said:

...and how many entry's  are there?

There's one more, cause I just submitted!

[tetryds]

I'm about to send mine, it still doesn't perform super well but looks so neat I cannot throw it away

[Joseph Kerman]

7 hours ago, Van Disaster said:

Better, couple of things:

* Reaction wheels are enabled
* Can it shoot down a dummy? having a hard time reaching min alt when I'm testing
* Does it have 15 mins of fuel? I am doubtful ( you have oxidizer on board which won't do anything ) - the fuel guideline of 30ish per engine is for props, these jets are pretty thirsty.
* As a tip, you might want to unbind some control axes from flight controls.
* Pwings need 120mm thickness minimum

This was built for FAR, right?

Yes, it was built for FAR.

The slow climb rate justifies the jet's low power; the Me-262 used two of them.

The control surfaces for pitch and yaw are too powerful; the reaction wheels do almost nothing (not to mention I forgot, but no time).

The jet engine efficiency is pretty low, considering how heavy the LF and its tanks are.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Joseph Kerman

[DoctorDavinci]

Here's my entry ... I call it the Slap Chop

https://kerbalx.com/DoctorDavinci/Slap-Chop

Stats:
Powerplant: 2x B38-S "Foxhound"
Weapons: 3x 12.7mm
Armor: 0.734 tons (666 kg)
Dry mass: 6.402 tons
Loaded Mass: 6.817

Point Calculations (150 max):
(Engine Kn x2) + (# of weapons x their caliber) + [(mass of armor rounded up x2) /50]
[(19.25 x2) x2] + (3 x12.7) + [(700 x2) /50]
77 + 38.1 + 28 = 143.1

Additional pics in the spoiler below:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by DoctorDavinci

[Van Disaster]

"My god, it's full of stars..."

Haven't seen that bug in a while. No, I haven't updated dcx, hence the wings.

[aleksey444]

[Van Disaster]

Neat - pointier tail & you'd have a ( Merlin engined, lol ) Bf108. Or apparently a Miles Monarch, which I'd not heared of before now.

[tetryds]

The Elkow-6

Told you it's awful yet cool.

Yes those wings bend a lot, I actually compensated that structurally and adjusted the variable roll rate with wing load.

Basically some minor aeroelasticity gimmicks.

Edited October 15, 2017 by tetryds

[Van Disaster]

Did you just build a thrust vectoring prop craft? haha. I'm glad I'm not flying it! I bet that's a model of a British late-30s prototype though. We made some wacky aircraft...

I offered this as a bot, if it's not going to be used I'll post it - was my more successful twin build, rear engine keeps falling off though.

Spoiler

 

[SuicidalInsanity]

Submissions are closed. I received 15 entries, so I'll begin working on a Bot craft to give a full 16, and then the tournament can get officially underway.

Edit: Since people seem to be posting shots of their craft, here's what I'll be throwing into the ring:

Edited October 15, 2017 by SuicidalInsanity

[Van Disaster]

OK - here's my twin then. Perhaps someone can glue the rear engine on properly

https://kerbalx.com/VanDisaster/DAC-Muninn-Mk-IId

Custom PP texture https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsz7pbpfwuiv13j/GameData_D.A.C.zip?dl=0

Edited October 15, 2017 by Van Disaster

[tetryds]

4 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

Did you just build a thrust vectoring prop craft?

Holy crap I didn't realize!

It's not that effective, but lol.

[aleksey444]

When will the fights start?

[SuicidalInsanity]

Bot complete.

After some minor bribery, Bot Winslow will be joining us, flying a personalized Z-17 'Mantis' heavy fighter: