What are the options for science sinks?

[GreenWolf]

So, one of the issues I've been running into with modded KSP is that I usually end up having more science points than I know what to do with. Even with the much larger and science hungry tech tree provided by CTT, I inevitably find myself finishing the off the tech tree long before I run out of available science, and so it ends up just accumulating uselessly in the late game. There are plenty of mods that add more science experiments and more ways to do science and more places to get science (that's part of the issue, in fact), but I've found very few mods that add anything to spend science on, outside of tech tree mods.

So this is me asking if there are any science sinks that I've missed. I'll list the ones I know of already, and add more to the list as people mention them. And if there really is a dearth of science sinks, maybe this will inspire somebody to make more.

Non-Tech Tree Mods That Add Ways To Spend/Use Science Points

• Strategia -- Some strategies have a science point cost to enact.
• Play Your Way -- Gives reputation and funds as rewards for earning science points.
• Kerbal Research and Development -- Allows you to spend science to improve researched parts.
• Contract Pack: Astronaut Training -- (In-development). A contract pack that lets you spend science to level up kerbals.

Edited September 30, 2017 by GreenWolf

[Streetwind]

There's also the act of writing yourself a Module Manager patch that makes existing sinks more pronounced - like, increasing the science costs of R&D nodes, or modifying the science value of certain celestial bodies and/or science experiments.

For example, in stock KSP there is a huge gap between what you can get on and around Kerbin, and what you can get on and around Mun and Minmus. Often, the mere act of just reaching one of those two places completely trivializes the tech tree. By comparison, the gap between Mun/Minmus and interplanetary missions isn't nearly as pronounced, which further motivates people to just stay in Kerbin's SOI and farm the twoo moons until they have run out of things to spend science on.

By reducing the amount of science that Mun and Minmus generate, you not only reduce the sudden and absurd spike of science income you get by venturing there (which slows the progression through the tech tree), but you also make going interplanetary more rewarding in comparison, which can be a welcome counterbalance for the added complexity introduced by life support mods.

[GreenWolf]

I already have science reduction in play for the mun and minmus (because I'm running OPM, which takes a pass at all the stock planets to try and keep the addition of OPM biomes from glutting the science too much, with mixed success), and CTT does effectively make tech nods cost more, because of how many more techs there are too unlock. My issue is not with the pace of game progression -- I'm usually around the mid-to-late tech tree by the time I start going interplanetary with kerbals, and how quickly I reach that point is almost entirely down to playstyle. My issue is with what I do after I've gone interplanetary, but still have plenty of science left to gather, and no techs to spend it on.

What would be cool, and interesting, and neat, is if you could trade science points for Kerbal XP -- that is, you can spend science to level up individual kerbals, although what the proper exchange rate for it would be, I have no idea. That actually seems like an excellent potential use for science, if any modders out there want to pick that up.

[DrLicor]

In my RSS/RO/RP-0 is science quitte valued. I think I got it balanced right now, with some reputation cutoff trading it for science. These last nodes are just so expensive, and the 3 before them also haha. 

However, I do like your idea of trading sciense for XP points for the astronauts. Especially in RSS/RO, you don't want to fly your Astronaut to a few different planets for education purposes. It would be nice if there was a mod indeed where you pump science and funds into education of the crew. 

My thoughts would be that a certain lvl. of astronautcomplex is needed as well as research center.
And as difficulty settings:
- The same as building times work, it takes time to complete the training, the austronaut will be absent and can not be used for missions. 
- Stupidity will have an effect on the lenght/costs of the training.
-???

Maybe it can be implanted with the build times mod or just as an extension. The bic pro of this mod is you can disable and enable whatever you want, even when you're mid carreer. 

This mod already has some kind of education program for the astronauts, but doesn't involve science.. Only funds I thought. It's in a way of contracts, but those contracts can manually be changed so that you don't earn sciense, but have to give science when completing or starting them.  

Maybee, I could make a quick patch for the mod, that it adds science to the contracts. Should be really easy to do. However, this still involves flying to places etc. and not a training on their home planet in a facility.

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by DrLicor

[GreenWolf]

Hmm, I hadn't thought of using contract configurator for this, but it probably would be the best way to do it. Add a contract that costs X amount of science points, and requires you to have a kerbal assigned to somewhere on Kerbin for X amount of hours. So you stick them in a ship near KSC and come back in a few weeks. Or maybe do the training at a space station in Kerbin orbit (which maybe takes less time to do then just training on Kerbin?). I could probably slap that together in an hour or two this afternoon, since contract configurator is just .cfg patches.

Some further thoughts on balance/mechanics:

• Training should cost science, funds, time, and some effort.
• You should be able to train more than one Kerbal at a time, but not too many. (So probably between 1 to  6.)
• Training should be specialization specific.
• Training should require at least 1 Kerbal of the level being trained to.
• Training shouldn't require leaving the Kerbin system.
• Science Cost: 1 XP should cost 5 science points (so leveling a Kerbal from 0 to 5 would cost 320 science points). This should be per Kerbal, possibly with some cost reduction for training more than 1 Kerbal at once.
• Funds Cost: 1 XP should cost 1000 funds (to represent costs of paying instructors). This should be a flat fee, and doesn't change whether you're training 1 or 6 Kerbals.
• Time Cost: 1 XP should have a base cost of 30 in-game hours (representing how long it would take to train at a base on Kerbin). This cost should decrease for training in orbit or on the Mun/Minmus.
• Effort Cost: Training needs to take place in a base or station at Kerbin/Mun/Minmus. Valid training academies should have at least 1 Science Lab. Training time for each specialization could also be decreased for having optional role-specific parts (like cupolas for pilots, resource converters for engineers, science experiments for scientists).

The basic contracts you would get would be:

• Hire a (Flight/Technical/Science) Instructor -- This would be offered only when you don't have any level 5 Kerbals in a specialization, and would let you pay a large upfront cost in funds to hire one. Possibly also only available after landing a Kerbal on the Mun or Minmus? The point of this is basically to make it so that you don't have to fly all the way to Jool and back just to starting training Kerbals (or if you do, so you don't get screwed if your level 5 Kerbals die in an "accident").
• Train X (Pilots/Engineers/Scientists) -- This is the basic training contract, and would be offered for training 1 to 6 kerbals of the given specialization to the next level. The cost would be determined base on the level being trained to and the number of Kerbals being trained. You would have the option to train them at any available base/station in the Kerbin system, with the time needed to train them being determined by where the base/station is.
• Intensive Training for (Kerbal Name) -- This is a special training contract that would let you train 1 Kerbal from their current level to the level of your most experienced Kerbal. Probably costs a little bit more upfront in science/funds, but is slightly faster in terms of time.

 

I'll start working on throwing this together as a contract pack this afternoon.

Edited September 29, 2017 by GreenWolf

[DrLicor]

@GreenWolf, that was exactly what I was thinking. But the reason why I choose for kerbal construction time, is that the timer of the mission often stops in contracts when you're back at the ksc or another location than the kerbal itself. 

This way you have to stick with the kerbal untill its ready. However, this was in previous version of KSP, haven't tested it in the latest one, but so you can keep it in mind.

If it could get intergraded with construction time, the timer will always be active, wherever you are.

[GreenWolf]

@DrLicor In my experience in my most recent career game, the timers on Contract Configurator contracts do continue to run in the background if you switch focus, so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue. The benefit of making it a standalone contract pack is that it's a lite-weight, standalone download with just CC as a dependency.

[GreenWolf]

And I went ahead and made the mod. Well, the first release, anyways. It's not yet feature complete, but the development thread is here.