nhnifong Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is actually putting lava on the lavaless planet slated for this release? or will it remain rocky? I'd guess since they haven't released any pictures of it, that they have something more in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoup Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is actually putting lava on the lavaless planet slated for this release? or will it remain rocky? I'd guess since they haven't released any pictures of it, that they have something more in the works.http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/16723-UNOFFICIAL-FANMADE-0-17-Discussion-Thread-2?p=236112&viewfull=1#post236112In short, as of the time of that post there was no shader for Charr's lava. That may have changed by now, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberKerb Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Just wondering if any information has been released on what gravity each of the new planets would have in relation to Kermin? I saw a post from Nova about a moonlet with 0.05 gravity. Any of of the other planets have a particularly high gravity to made it a v.hard challenge to achieve an intact landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enture Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If I remember correctly, Nova said a couple of weeks ago that Eve would have 2g gravity (either he said it in this thread, or on the comments of his development album). But I also read somewhere (can't remember where, to be honest... it's a shame) that Eve's surface gravity would be 1.35g.Seems it will be higher than Kerbin's gravity, in any case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what-the Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Eve's current gravity is 1.7g.I'll help you guys out a little bit, here are the latest stats on Eve:(may change, they've been changed up quite a bit so far)Radius: 700kmSurface gravity: 1.7gAtmosphere density: 5x kerbinRotation period: 22.5 hoursSemimajor axis: 7440000kmEccentricity: 0.03Inclination: 0.025 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enture Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 ...well, here we go. Thanks what-the! Didn't remember the atmosphere's density would be so high, though. I mean, it's already scary what kind of speeds Kerbin's atmosphere can eat up, so imagine it 5x denser! I can already here Jeb: "Chutes? Chutes for what? Screw the chutes! If anything, then moar boosters!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningSky93 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Eve's current gravity is 1.7g.Along with "Atmosphere density: 5x kerbin"I don't think we should be planning to land on Eve and leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddinsky Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'll figure out how to post a pic later. But after I played with the fuzzy image a bit, I tried to blur it. That seemed to have worked rather well. IMHO it is the KSP launch pad with a rocket angled at about 45 degrees. Maybe damned robotics is going to become stock parts. Maybe it is just an idea to play with using the takeoff struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neistridlar Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Along with "Atmosphere density: 5x kerbin"I don't think we should be planning to land on Eve and leave it.I do not agree with you on that. Wings should create a lot of lift in such a thick atmosphere. Imagine having a plane like descent/ascent stage with a rocket return stage on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningSky93 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I do not agree with you on that. Wings should create a lot of lift in such a thick atmosphere. Imagine having a plane like descent/ascent stage with a rocket return stage on top.Good point, I had forgotten that they were reworking the spaceplane mechanics. I dont think conventional rockets will have much hope though, unless you build something ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlternNocturn Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I do not agree with you on that. Wings should create a lot of lift in such a thick atmosphere. Imagine having a plane like descent/ascent stage with a rocket return stage on top.But wouldn't the thrust from the engines be dampened tremendously by the thick atmosphere? It could still be possible to escape, but it might require an incredible effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexx32 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 ... yes, so just use a plane to get you out to the thinner atmosphere, decouple the plane and rocket up again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramipro Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 What does Nova exactly mean by 5x atmosphere density? 5 times more drag? or maybe 5 times taller? If it's the first, i don't think using a spaceplane would help at all. Lift is not proportional to density, it's porportional to the specific velocity through the medium. If it's the latter, sure it would help. There's two possibilities, and I hope he means the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowz0r Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 What does Nova exactly mean by 5x atmosphere density? 5 times more drag? or maybe 5 times taller? If it's the first, i don't think using a spaceplane would help at all. Lift is not proportional to density, it's porportional to the specific velocity through the medium. If it's the latter, sure it would help. There's two possibilities, and I hope he means the second one.5x atmosphere density means 5 time more atmosphere density...Kinda like flying through water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramipro Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Okay, so like a denser gas, right? Like almost say, krypton atmosphere? Then it would increase tremendously drag, while lift wouldn't be much affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Man Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) What does Nova exactly mean by 5x atmosphere density? 5 times more drag? or maybe 5 times taller? If it's the first, i don't think using a spaceplane would help at all. Lift is not proportional to density, it's porportional to the specific velocity through the medium. If it's the latter, sure it would help. There's two possibilities, and I hope he means the second one.Lift IS proportional to density. Lift = Cl*0.5*ÃÂ*V^2*A, where Cl is the lift coefficient (determined experimentally in a wind tunnel), àis density, V is velocity and A is the area of the wing. Density's pretty important to lift. Edited August 23, 2012 by Winter Man Added italics to Ã�Â� to avoid confusion with p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramipro Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is it? I always thought it was dependent on the pressure, but now that i think about it, P=ph, which i guess in a way it does depend on density. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what-the Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Lift and drag use basically the same formula. They will both be 5 times greater (force) in a 5 times denser atmosphere. The overall result will be more lift at lower velocities. Think of Kerbin when your close the ground.You go very slow but you can fly. But higher up you need to go much faster to get the same lift. Let Kerbin density = 1 and Eve = 5 If you went 100m/s on Kerbin you would only need to go 45m/s on Eve to get the same lift. Taking into account the heavier gravity on Eve (x1.7) we need %170 of the lift to counter gravity and need to go 59m/sWe are only changing the density and velocity variables (the aircraft is assumed to be the same) so the formula is Lift Force = density * velocity ^ 2.So when we leave the atmosphere we will be going much slower (depending on how quickly the atmosphere thins out) and thus would need a rocket transported to high altitudes via plane for even a good chance of making orbit.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_(force)#Lift_coefficienthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)#Drag_at_high_velocity Edited August 23, 2012 by what-the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Man Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yup. Because lift and drag are actually the same force (in aircraft), just separated into vectors to make calculations easier. Lift you oppose with weight, and drag you oppose with thrust. Makes everything a bit neater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlternNocturn Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) ... yes, so just use a plane to get you out to the thinner atmosphere, decouple the plane and rocket up again?Oh yeah, I forgot how planes worked for a second. >_>Still, if you were to try to do that in real life on Venus, your oxygen breathing plane would fail since, y'know... the lack of oxygen. I was thinking about Orbiter and how hard it is to put a Delta glider into orbit around Venus. Edited August 23, 2012 by AlternNocturn "Reply" function is a bit useless, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Man Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Have a picture to better illustrate (ha!) what I mean. The red arrow is the actual force generated by the wing moving through the air, the blue is the lift component and the green is the drag component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramipro Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 But that's for wings that rely solely on the angle of attack for lift, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Man Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 They all kind of do, angle of attack is factored into the lift coefficient. In fact, the lift and drag coefficients change with the angle of attack. So the proportion of lift to drag will be different for every wing shape, but it's still the same principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramipro Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Oh, man, I'm quite learning a lot today! And another question, does the Bernoulli principle affect at all to the lift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKDan89 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Does anyone have the specs of the lava-less planet and the desert planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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