Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[steve9728]

1 hour ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Can we expect any interesting reveals or announcements for China's Space Day (April 24th)?

If is the rocket launch, I didn't see those "CNSA watchers" sharing latest NOTAM yet: this's the most credible rocket launch prediction.

If something else, I guess it would be the crew make some speech to the public or the kids from the station. Sharing the Mars map shoot by Tianwen-1 maybe.  And, as we know, the plan of CZ-9 has two plans: traditional one and Starship-like one. Which using 4 YF-130 on stage one and another one is using 30 engines

Spoiler

"Traditional"

"Thank you Musk"

All this time, the research and test-run for high thrust engines for CZ-9, YF-130 for the first stage which got 500t thrust, YF-90 for second stage and YF-79 for third stage were never stop. Although I have read some info hint "some people in some lab in some research institutes were arguing a lot about which of the two options to use". But we all see the firework yesterday - so personal guessing, maybe we can expect the new CZ-9 plan from Long Lehao - which probably "back to the tradition". Although it's impossible to know exactly what all these Institute insiders are bickering about, this guy is a window of observation. I have around 60% confidence in this little guess happening few days later. Just don't know how long it will take for this guy to revise the slides. Of course, if he got some post graduate students, that's won't take too long hahaha

Edited April 21, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

On 4/20/2023 at 11:11 PM, steve9728 said:

It seems that someone has taken a little inspiration from the lessons learned: the Institute of Geology and Earth Sciences of the CAS (Chinese Academy of Sciences) has produced a vision and programme for China's future in-orbit monitoring of Martian dust storms. The programme points out that it's hoped that by launching three satellites to Mars synchronous orbit and one in Mars polar orbit, to form a global weather monitoring network for Mars.

 

An paper entitled Martian Dust Strom Monitoring Methouds (it's in full Chinese) attached a picture of a local dust storm taken by Tianwen-1's MoRIC at 400km on 6 January last year:

[steve9728]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:54 PM, SunlitZelkova said:

Can we expect any interesting reveals or announcements for China's Space Day (April 24th)?

Something more: http://www.china.org.cn/china/2023-04/20/content_85240599.htm

The original one on China Space News (full Chinese link warning) said that "Based on the four major activity systems of academia, industry, science popularization and cultural creation, the China Space Conference set up more than 30 sub-forums, including the main, international, academic, industry, cultural, youth and science education forum." ... "The scientific issues and technical problems in the field of astronautics in 2023 will be presented at the main forum of the Congress. In the keynote session, six invited presentations were given by top experts and scholars in the field of spaceflight from China and abroad. They are:

• Liu Jizhong (刘继忠), Deputy Director of the Science and Technology Committee of the Deep Space Exploration Major Project, Chief Designer of the Tianwen-3 Mission of the Planetary Exploration Project
• Wang Xiang(王翔), Chief Commander of CSS System from 5th Academy of CASC
• Yang Baohua (杨保华), former General Manager of China Satellite Network Group Limited and Vice Chairman of the China Aerospace Society
• Pan Jianwei (潘建伟), academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and Executive Vice-President of the University of Science and Technology of China.
• Veronica La Regina, Commercial Director of the Logic Group
• Remco Timmermans, members of the Global Faculty from the International Space University

"It will focus on such hotspots as deep space exploration, human spaceflight, satellite internet, quantum communication, aerospace electronics and commercial spaceflight, discussing key fundamental, strategic and forward-looking issues in the field of spaceflight, expanding the space for human exploration, discussing the integration of spaceflight technology and economy, and promoting the progress of human society and civilisation."

As for the more than 30 sub-forums, it will be including "CN-JP-KR international youth symposium, High-end series of conversations in the field of aerospace, Space Dialogue for countries along the Belt and Road, International symposium on the rule of law in outer space and other international forums etc."

 

So, it definitely would be fun no matter we can see another CZ-9 plan or not days later

Edited April 22, 2023 by steve9728

[SunlitZelkova]

2 hours ago, steve9728 said:

"CN-JP-KR international youth symposium

Nice. The conditions of the region are different so I don’t think we will ever see an Asian ESA, but it would be cool to have a three way joint mission someday. Maybe four way, counting the DPRK in too for an Apollo-Soyuz style breakthrough in international relations.

[steve9728]

24 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Nice. The conditions of the region are different so I don’t think we will ever see an Asian ESA, but it would be cool to have a three way joint mission someday. Maybe four way, counting the DPRK in too for an Apollo-Soyuz style breakthrough in international relations.

Just let the north and the south sitting on the same table is already hard enough. I think a more practical way at the moment would be to get the universities in the south and north to work together on a science project and then let us send it to the CSS - even some crop seed breeding projects would be fine. At least that would give them both something to talk about in common. Just like a collaborative experimental project that already in CSS between two of the best universities in China and Japan.

Edited April 22, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

Some interesting update about Tianwen-3 Mars sample return project:

 

And a thought of solar system edge probe Shensuo [神梭, God's (or Magical) Shuttle]

 

On 10/1/2022 at 12:11 AM, steve9728 said:

hello, solar system:

Tianwen-2, the asteroid exploration mission is expected to be carried out in 2025. It will detect asteroid HO3. First, it will take about a year for the transfer and rendezvous. After a year of close orbit exploration, asteroid sampling will be conducted and the samples will be put into the returnee. It takes half a year to return to the Earth and "throw" the returnee back to the Earth, and then it will enter into the comet transfer orbit for about seven years. Seven years later, it will rendezvous with Comet 311P in the main belt and perform the comet orbit detection mission.

Tianwen-3, the Mars sampling return mission is expected to be carried out in 2028. The Tianwen-3 detector system is composed of two major parts: the orbit return assembly (orbiter+returner) and the landing assembly (cruise stage+lander+launcher), both of which are launched by Long March 5.

Tianwen-4, the Jupiter System and Planetary Crossing Exploration Mission. It will use Venus and the Earth to carry out three "gravitational slingshot" effects. In other words, there will be a chance to see Venus. On the way to Jupiter, the asteroid leap exploration will be carried out. When approaching Jupiter, the Leap detector will be separated from the main detector, and the Leap detector will perform the leap detection of Neptune. The main probe will perform Jupiter's orbit detection after being captured by Jupiter. At the same time, it will use Jupiter's gravitational slingshot effect several times to go to Callisto and perform the orbiting exploration mission of Callisto.

The last one is the Neptune exploration mission that is still being demonstrated. It also will be carried out the asteroid leap exploration and use Jupiter's gravitational slingshot to go to Neptune. It will perform atmospheric exploration of Neptune and penetrating exploration of Triton. The umbrella-like thing in front may be some kind of reactor I think.

Actually, I think the Tianwen-4 and the Neptune exploration mission which under demonstration could do some technical exploration pavement for Shensuo mission. It would be good to even just learning lessons from them.

Edited April 22, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

Good news suddenly: CMS said on their official Weibo page that CSS will start a slow live broadcast "the Lens of Tiangong" from the space station tomorrow at 10am (GMT+8). The live stream is available on the official CMS Weibo account.

Edited April 23, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

 

 

[steve9728]

 

Wake up Zhurong and let us know everything is alright! We miss you!

Edited April 23, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

On 12/21/2022 at 3:40 AM, steve9728 said:

"Around 2025, near-Earth asteroids and main belt comets will be explored. Implementation of a Mars sample return mission in the next 10 to 15 years."

"Planetary exploration of the Jupiter system and Uranus; solar exploration and solar system edge exploration. The flight distance will reach 100 AU by the 100th anniversary of the founding of China."

"Around 2030, the 'Mi Yin (I think can translate to Sound Searching) project' will be implemented to explore whether there are planets outside the solar system that are suitable for human habitation"

Something new about the Miyin project:

... "By developing and launching an array of telescopes, we will rely on distributed space optical interferometry to achieve an optical synthetic aperture equivalent to tens to hundreds of metres to search for and detect the 'another Earth' in our solar system's immediate neighbourhood. It will also carry out high-resolution imaging and spectroscopic observations of various celestial bodies and map the water composition of the solar system, opening up a new era of high-resolution astronomical observations."

The array telescope has a distributed system architecture, with the basic model containing one coupler and four condensers. The words in the picture from left to right are: Condenser 4, Coupler, Condenser 3, Condenser 1 &2 

It will be sent to the orbit near Sun-Earth L2 point. It can be replenished on demand, enabling system expansion, functional extension and performance enhancement.

Timeline of Miyin Project:

• 2024: Technical demonstration in orbit include sub-millimetre formation control, sub-micron spatial ranging and distributed imaging technology experiments.
• 2025: Delivery of the optical interference technology experimental payload to the CSS. Demonstration and verification for precision shared phase control, spatial optical interference to earth and fine imaging to air. Enhance the maturity of optical interference shared control technology.
• 2027: Launch the key tech experiment satellite 
• 2030: Completion of the basic type of array telescope to achieve optical interference imaging.

System specifications:

• Broad-spectrum infrared: spectral data in the mid-infrared broad band range of 7 to 13 μm are required for habitability and vital signatures mapping.
• High sensitivity: target brightness in the mid-infrared band is less than 3 photons/second/㎡, requiring a light collection aperture more than 6m.
• High resolution: Angular distances of less than 0.1 arcsec for stellar-planetary systems require equivalent apertures more than 30m.
• High contrast ration: Stellar - planets differ in brightness by more than 7 orders of magnitude, requiring an equivalent aperture more than 300 metres.
• Multi-mode detection: The system needs to have multiple detection modes such as interferometry/imaging, nulling interferometry and spectral photometry.

and challenges:

• 300m spatial scale
• 10 μm central wavelength faint target light
• Closed loop, stable co-phase control with better than 100nm accuracy and constant reconfiguration and manoeuvrability.

 

via. https://weibo.com/6389414951/MDkxejuBS

Add: Mi Yin (觅音) previously I think can translate to "sound searching". But now I think it's "寻觅知音" in short, means "looking for soulmates" in English.

Edited April 24, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

On 4/23/2023 at 10:43 AM, steve9728 said:

Good news suddenly: CMS said on their official Weibo page that CSS will start a slow live broadcast "the Lens of Tiangong" from the space station tomorrow at 10am (GMT+8). The live stream is available on the official CMS Weibo account.

There we go: https://weibo.com/2196038737/MDrlBqkpG

Add: CSS + Current location: https://weibo.com/l/wblive/p/show/1022:2321324893981275193849

Edited April 24, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

 

Meanwhile, CNSA has announced the gift of samples of lunar soil brought back by Chang'e-5 to Russia and France. On 4 April this year, during French President Macron's visit to China, China presented France with 1.5g of lunar samples for scientific purposes, and on 4 February 2022, during Russian President Vladimir Putin's visit to China, China presented Russia with 1.5g of lunar samples for scientific purposes, and in March 2023, Russia gave back to China 1.5g of lunar samples for scientific purposes from Luna-16.

"In December 2020, CNSA issued the Measures for the Management of Lunar Samples to encourage research on lunar samples and promote the sharing of scientific results. So far, scientists from Australia, Russia, France, US, UK and Sweden have participated in the scientific research of Chinese lunar samples."

Both 1.5g Lunar samples gifted to FR and RU are 1g of shovelling samples and 0.5g drilling samples

Edited April 24, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6759533/c6842265/content.html

Edited April 24, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, steve9728 said:

So, it definitely would be fun no matter we can see another CZ-9 plan or not days later

emmmm... yeah, didn't back to the "traditional". It said that is planning to be finished two of this rocket's test flight around 2033. Total length 114m, take-off weight 4400t, take-off thrust 6100t, rocket diameter 10.6m, can sent >150t payloads to LEO and >50 to TLI

Me: blackout suddenly*

Hope Elon can launch more Starships asap to prove this way is correct or not. Personally, I prefer the "traditional" type of CZ-9

Edited April 24, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

On 4/4/2023 at 6:08 PM, steve9728 said:

 

Irresponsible guesses about the Shenzhou-16 crew member: Jing Haipeng (co-pilot of Shenzhou-7), Yang Liwei (the first taikonaut, but very unlikely though), and one of the third echelon of taikonauts that has never been publicly listed.

Of course, this guess is pretty idle.

Yang Liwei recently attended a talk at a youth space science education programme in Yunnan Province.

So based on the exclusion and the ongoing arrangement of China's manned space crew, we can now congratulate Jing Haipeng in advance on his selection for the Shenzhou-16 crew and his role as commander. Congratulations on going into space for the fourth time.

I guess the Shenzhou-16 crew member are Jing Haipeng and two of new astronauts from the third echelon which haven't available to the public yet.

[steve9728]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:11 AM, steve9728 said:

Tianwen-2, the asteroid exploration mission is expected to be carried out in 2025. It will detect asteroid HO3. First, it will take about a year for the transfer and rendezvous. After a year of close orbit exploration, asteroid sampling will be conducted and the samples will be put into the returnee. It takes half a year to return to the Earth and "throw" the returnee back to the Earth, and then it will enter into the comet transfer orbit for about seven years. Seven years later, it will rendezvous with Comet 311P in the main belt and perform the comet orbit detection mission.

According to Deep Space Exploration Lab's official Weibo, the launch of Tianwen-2 is specifically scheduled for May 2025. The current schedule is almost complete with the development of the initial prototype. The flight model will be carried on in mid of 2023.

1. Launch
2. Transferring for around 1 year to asteroid 2016HO3
3. Rendezvous with the asteroid
4. Approximately one year of close detection
5. Sampling
6. Return for around six months
7. Return capsule re-entry to atmosphere while the main probe pulls up
8. Transferring to Comet 311P for around 7 years
9. Comet detection

Add: same info but this page of slides has the clearer images of the Tianwen-2

Top right is the probe with return capsule and the bottom of it is the entire Tianwen-2.

And it may have another mission about China's first asteroid defence experiment: hypervelocity kinetic impact on a 50m class asteroid and direct in-orbit assessment of impact effects

via. https://weibo.com/2645044133/MDtxwyxKq

Edited April 24, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

 

 

Meanwhile:

[insert_name]

looks like they finally confirmed Zhurong had shut down permanently last year

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/china-breaks-silence-over-status-stationary-martian-rover-2023-04-25/

[steve9728]

1 hour ago, insert_name said:

looks like they finally confirmed Zhurong had shut down permanently last year

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/china-breaks-silence-over-status-stationary-martian-rover-2023-04-25/

Just watched the original interview (if you want to practise your Chinese, here it is). In addition to repeating the conditions underlying its awakening:

On 1/17/2023 at 4:06 PM, steve9728 said:

However, the one on the surface of Mars still not "up" yet. According to Jia Yang, the deputy chief designer of the Tianwen system, during a previous education speech to youth, the rover will wake up autonomously when both of the following conditions are met:

1. Solar panels generate energy>140W
2. Temperature of energy equipment like the batteries >-15℃

(The thing I need to add here that he later mentions that if both of these base conditions are met, but if it doesn't get enough power for the day to sustain it through the night, it will remain dormant again.)

He then added the impact of unpredictable Martian dust accumulation on solar sails:

• If 20% more than the original designed dust accumulation, generation capacity will not be sufficient
• If >30%, it may need to wait until the sun is at its peak before it has the capacity to generate electricity
• If >40%, never wake up

So, I don't think is some kind confirm but rather like the family of a terminally ill patient getting mental preparation.

[steve9728]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:08 AM, steve9728 said:

And we can confirmed the plan about shifting the solar panels which now at the Tianhe core module to the both truss structure at end of Mengtian and Wentian module does exist:

Details of this:

"In order to optimise the overall layout of the space station, reduce the obstruction of the core module solar arrays by two experiment module and the risk of collision between the robotic arm and solar arrays. General systems department proposes a mission for the in-orbit transfer of the solar arrays of the core module."

1. The solar arrays need to fold in "T-shape"
2. The astronauts used tools to disconnect the 12 loose screws and 8 electrical connectors from the solar array to the module
3. The robotic arm will shift the arrays to the truss at end of experiment module. Astronauts install the expansion controller to connect the array to the electromechanical interface with the module. The array will then be deployed again.

via.https://weibo.com/6389414951/4894418807030806?sudaref=t.co

[steve9728]

 

￥600 million, hmmmmmm, it's money that "wants to get things done properly".

[steve9728]

 

Besides saying that and told us Artemis 3 will delay to 2026, he also met the CNSA's administrator

 

Although he's not someone official from NASA - he's already retired. But then again, it's better to sit down and have a good chat than anything else.

[steve9728]

 

[steve9728]

Possible Chinese rocket debris found on island in southwest Japan. That should be the CZ-4B's fairing.

It took four days for the currents to push the wreckage to Kagoshima, and seven days from the villagers to report it to we had this news report...

[insert_name]

Long March 9 has been redesigned again to be the chinese response to starship (fully reusable with full flow methalox engines). First launch planned for 2033

https://spacenews.com/china-plans-full-reusability-for-its-super-heavy-long-march-9-rocket/