Horizon Aeronautics - Development Thread

[NoMrBond]

First off, This Mod looks amazing! Second, I was wondering how I could go about resizing this for RSS. I think that you have to change the rescale factor or something, but I cannot be sure. Could somebody help point me in the right direction for this?

You'd need a rescaleFactor of 1.56 (2.5 -> 3.9m), you may also need to adjust the node_stack positions to account for the new size (or perhaps you can do this by setting scale = as well as the rescaleFactor, I forget).

Edited March 5, 2014 by NoMrBond

[m00f]

Thanks, is rescalefactor something you add to the code?

[NoMrBond]

Thanks, is rescalefactor something you add to the code?

Yes, add the line rescaleFactor = 1.56 to the part.cfg (caps important)

You may also need scale = 1

Otherwise the size may be out (due to default scaling being 1.25 I think)

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[Edit] The other way to do it would be to convert the 'mesh =' arguments into MODEL{} setups, but that'd be a lot more work

Edited March 5, 2014 by NoMrBond

[m00f]

Hmm... It seems that 1.56 was not a large enough rescale factor. It seems that the tanks have only been resized to about 3.2m. I'll try again with a larger number.

[NoMrBond]

Hmm... It seems that 1.56 was not a large enough rescale factor. It seems that the tanks have only been resized to about 3.2m. I'll try again with a larger number.

That fits with the scale = issue, otherwise the tanks are only 2m * 1.56 = 3.12m

If you're not using scale = 1, set scale = 1 (required as well as rescaleFactor)

Iif you are using scale = 1, try scale = 1.25

[Edit] If that still doesn't work, I'll have a look at making the MODEL{} conversions when I get home from work since the MODEL{} system includes scale XYZ arguments

Edited March 6, 2014 by NoMrBond

[m00f]

If you're not using scale = 1, set scale = 1 (required as well as rescaleFactor)

Iif you are using scale = 1, try scale = 1.25

Oops, i had the scale=1, but I just settled on tweaking the rescalefactor to 1.9 to get the proper tank size. I'll try changing the scale to try to get a more precise size.

EDIT: changing the scale to 1.25 and changing the rescale factor to 1.56 didn't do anything.

Edited March 6, 2014 by m00f

[stubbles]

Finished up the second stage components for the Energia. Baseline is the quad RD-0120 setup, with the triple setup for smaller payloads and the aero cap for even lighter loads, where the center tank is used merely for fuel transfer and/or booster support.

[NoMrBond]

Awesome, is this centerline tank going to be 3.75m?

[stubbles]

It's a 4m tank. Is 3.75m more desirable? That may mess with the scale of it a bit =\

[landeTLS]

3.75m is the more desirable size. Especcially because its a squad scale (3m model * default cfg rescalefactor which is 1.25) the next step up is 5m but that is kindof big. it also allows one to use it seamlessly with kw parts and squad adapters can be scaled up and still fit. I dunno why they use those scales but its well worth it to conform to their standard

If youre not doing it already id suggest making your models in 1 meter increments so you dont need to change/set the cfg rescalefactor at all. That way if you for example make a 4m diameter part in blender/3dsmax etc. It will be 5m ingame.

Im very glad you are making the energia based components. Iwe always liked those designs. I must say your normalmaps are "off the Charts" well made. Do you bake those from high poly geometry or do you use a sculpting sw like zbrush etc.?

I noticed one thing while testing the released pack. The smoke effect is a bit off center. Its a quick fix tho. Just play with the offsets in the fx definitions.

Edited March 6, 2014 by landeTLS

[NoMrBond]

It's a 4m tank. Is 3.75m more desirable? That may mess with the scale of it a bit =\

Oh, I hadn't actually looked into it, a lot of mods step up node sizes in 1.25m 'units' so you get half (0.625), one (1.25), then 2.5, 3.75, 5m etc

On reflection, the scale for the Zenit-3SLB tanks is ~(1/1.56; 3.9m->2.5m) ~64% , so with the Energia core being 7.75m real, that would make the centerline tanks ~5m (using the same scale)?

Then you could have the Energia strapons as straight fuel tanks and clip your existing RD-171 engines to them to make the Energia-II configuration

[stubbles]

That's too much math for me My zenit tanks are only 2m though, not 2.5. That would bring down the centerline tank size some would it not?

[NoMrBond]

That's too much math for me My zenit tanks are only 2m though, not 2.5. That would bring down the centerline tank size some would it not?

They're definitely 2.5m in game (you can match up a mainsail with the 1st stage tank for example), probably because the default scaling is x1.25

So if you're making 4m, that will actually end up appearing as 5m in game (4x1.25), so that's perfect

Edited March 6, 2014 by NoMrBond

[landeTLS]

They're definitely 2.5m in game, probably because the default scaling is x1.25

I can confirm what nomrbond is saying. They are defidently already 2.5m ingame

[stubbles]

That way if you for example make a 4m diameter part in blender/3dsmax etc. It will be 5m ingame.

I'm actually not modifying the model scale at all. I modeled the Zenit as a 2m mesh in Max and that's how it is in the game. I could probably scale the energia back to 3.75 without much issue.

Do you bake those from high poly geometry or do you use a sculpting sw like zbrush etc.?

I'm actually just using nDo2, which is sort of a Photoshop addon. It allows you to paint fully 3D normals within Photoshop. They're indistinguishable from modeled normals, it's not like that crappy Nvidia Photo filter thing I could model it all highpoly, but that just seems like more effort than it's worth for something like this.

I noticed one thing while testing the released pack. The smoke effect is a bit off center.

Yeeeah, I noticed that as well I was having a lot of issues with the smoke stuff. It was my first time messing with the new EFFECT system. I'll fix it in the next update ;D

[stubbles]

Ah I didn't know parts were automatically scaled 1.25x, that's pretty annoying. Thanks for bringing it up, I'll have to keep that in mind.

[NoMrBond]

Ah I didn't know parts were automatically scaled 1.25x, that's pretty annoying. Thanks for bringing it up, I'll have to keep that in mind.

You can manually set the scaling with scale = and rescaleFactor = in the part.cfg, otherwise it applies 1.25x by default

Since 64% seems to be the default real->kerbin scale used in a lot of mods anyway, I had assumed it was intentional because it fit so perfectly

[landeTLS]

Yep. You can also set rescaleFactor manually in the part cfgs to "1" then the part will be exactly the size you made it in your modelling sw. But as i mentioned before its well worth it to stick with squads system of 1m model increments and keeping them scaled to 1.25. I usually create some reference cylinders i can use for comparison purposes when i model and need to scale stuff up or down(i just started learning modelling a few months ago so im nowhere close to your level of skill stubbles)

Edited March 6, 2014 by landeTLS

[NathanKell]

stubbles, amazing work!

On another note, does anyone know WHY on earth a saved ship does not update when you update a config or mesh? Like I have a 3SL vehicle saved out for loading, but if I change say, a fuel level in a tank, it doesn't update the saved ship. That's ludicrous. I have to rebuild the entire vessel every time I change something :|

This is because saved craft use the same format as saved games, so all persistent variables (like a tank's fuel state) are saved to the .craft file (just as fuel state is saved in a saved game).

I'll have to look at B9 then, because I can't find any info on that elsewhere.

Very simple. Instead of mesh = your_mesh_name, use

MODEL
{
	model = Complete/Path/To/Model/filename_without_extension
}

Then place all models that share textures in the same folder with all the textures, and put multiple cfgs in that folder (i.e. stage1.cfg, stage2.cfg, fairingside.cfg, etc.) each of which references the appropriate model file.

Also make sure scale = 1.0 and rescaleFactor = 1.0. MODEL is buggy and works best when both those are 0; do any scaling in your 3D package before export.

You'd need a rescaleFactor of 1.56 (2.5 -> 3.9m), you may also need to adjust the node_stack positions to account for the new size (or perhaps you can do this by setting scale = as well as the rescaleFactor, I forget).

scale itself affects only nodes, and is uniform (1 number). scale inside MODEL affects only geometry/transforms and is per-axis. rescaleFactor affects both and is uniform.

However, MODEL is buggy: rescaleFactor is applied twice when using MODEL, unless (a) the part is the root part and ( you revert to launch, in which case rescaleFactor is applied only once. Hence why it's safer to leave it as 1.0

What you *do* need to change when you change size is the seventh number for nodes (the node size). I.e. 0 for 0.625m, 1 for 1.25m, 2 for 2.5m....

======

A request: no matter what diameter you end up going with, *please* keep the height proportional. So when we scale it up to 100% real size it's not out of aspect.

[Roxette]

... place all models that share textures in the same folder with all the textures, and put multiple cfgs in that folder ...

A minor point, but is it not true that if the full paths are in the config file, the actual config files can be in any directory?

[Kommitz]

A minor point, but is it not true that if the full paths are in the config file, the actual config files can be in any directory?

Yeah that's true, it can be used for such things (by myself mostly) as having one fairing that you just call up in the cfgs for all your engines.

Also these parts look well nice.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Kommitz

[Guest]

Could you please make sure proportions are right? Disregard "stock" sizes if you can't have correct proportions with them. Realistic parts, especially those like Energia, need to be precisely scaled with each other.

Also, could you make RD-0120 a separate part from the cluster plates? This is important, because a Dtobi's gimbal plugin (also used to enable gimbal trim and high-range gimballing useful for Energia) could be used to make them control roll if they were set up that way. I can show you how to set this plugin up.

[stubbles]

Finished up the meshes.

Making the nozzles separate engine parts is going to add more complexity and annoyance to the whole project I think. The engine mount clusters will have all to be barren, then you'll have to snap the engines on. Is that something all of you would like?

[a__gun]

Making the nozzles separate engine parts is going to add more complexity and annoyance to the whole project I think. The engine mount clusters will have all to be barren, then you'll have to snap the engines on. Is that something all of you would like?

Think I'd stick to single piece engine clusters personally.

[NathanKell]

Making the nozzles separate engine parts is going to add more complexity and annoyance to the whole project I think. The engine mount clusters will have all to be barren, then you'll have to snap the engines on. Is that something all of you would like?

Yes. Roll control is important...