Star Wars Episode VIII (8) the Last Jedi Discussion

[Cheif Operations Director]

 

How do you not know who Darth Plaugis is?

Your Directing a Star Wars Movie.

See my last post about Rey being over powered

I don't see how Disney is capable of making a good movie much less competantly.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Let me say something else The concept of the force being in balance is introduced in Ep I thru 6. The theory that Rey is Kylo Rens Lint side equivalent is disgusting. That's is why Rey has "Raw Powaaa"! Then why does Kylo Have Raw Power in the first place. If the light needed a counter to the dark why give the dark a foothold in Kylo in the first place. It can't end well someone will win so how can they be a counter. Second If the force would create a equal opposite of A user to maintain balance why didn't all the Sith and Jedi Pull a Yoda and disappear. It didn't it created Anakin to destroy both the Jedi and Sith in numbers. I think it's ridiculous, Rey's power. Implying she is more or less powerful than Kylo is wring if she is the polar opposite always adjusting to the enemies power. When Kylo is shot in TFA Rey should have been weakened too if this is the case. My point in this post is them being adjusting opposites of the force just can't happen like that without destroying the entire last 2 trilogies of Star Wars. Rey is a overpowered Charachter

[Cheif Operations Director]

ok here is an idea Instead of the disaster of a plot we get what if they went with the fan theory that Rey was ONCE TRAINED. Let me explain PLEASE! Ok so in short that Rey once trained at the academy and escaped/evacuated either or and then had her memory erased by skywlaker and let her on Jakku. When she wasn't reminded of the force we tapped into her former self and began to remember. Especially when Kylo said the word force. It would trigger her mind to use all her trained power. THIS WOULD DESTROY THE ENITRE ARUGUEMNT OF A MARY SUE! It would make complete sense. She has a higher than normal force ability but inst over powered but instead was trained and "forgot" She was still not proficient but used her former knowledge to her ability. In Ep 8 this would be revealed on Ach To. Luke would still be a grumpy person and say the Jedi would end but instead would help her develop her abilities like Mace Windu. Using the Dark and the Light But for the benifit of others. She would be pretty much in terms of light and dark Mace Windu. This way Luke sets up the 3rd Jedi Order in the canon The Users of the light and the dark for Lightside ideals such as mercy, compassion,  etc. This way Luke isn't wasted. Rey has a legitimate reason for her power. Also further adding some obstacles in her path like the inability to remember her former training and self and the Luke Temple and such would be nice to make her more relatable to the Audiance. Lastly a scene would be her about to be killed By Kylo Because she was arrogant when he strikes she falls of the edge of a railing. Into a escape pod. Kylo Jumps down as the door closes. The lightsaber penitrates the pod and goes down her arm into her bone verticly so her arm is stil, attached but useless. The pod fires as this happens. This requires a Cybernetic Arm. This way it shows she isn't perfect and needs to study more and also shows some physical trama for her Hero Status. This would make Rey into SUCH A BETTER CHARACTER in my Opinion.

Thoughts?

Further to represent her Balance of Light and Dark. She would have her traditional Jedi Robes but instead a black cape. Like Darth Vader. And a Purple Lightsaber.

[MiffedStarfish]

9 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

To get a more powerful shot you can charge a bow caster. I longer you charge the more powerful.

Canon Wookipeedia says it can’t do this, the film shows it dosent do this in both scenes. The entire mode of operation makes it impossible for it to be charged. It works on the same principles of accelerating a projectile that a crossbow uses. Technically you could say that pulling back the string on a bowcaster could be charging, but Chewbacca removed the string and replaced it with an auto loading mechanism. 

The only time it can charge is in the battlefront games, which is purely for gameplay reasons.

Edited January 5, 2018 by MiffedStarfish

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

Canon Wookipeedia says it can’t do this, the film shows it dosent do this in both scenes. The entire mode of operation makes it impossible for it to be charged. It works on the same principles of accelerating a projectile that a crossbow uses. Technically you could say that pulling back the string on a bowcaster could be charging, but Chewbacca removed the string and replaced it with an auto loading mechanism. 

The only time it can charge is in the battlefront games, which is purely for gameplay reasons.

I'm sick of this and have moved on... What do you think about my alternate Rey Charachter in the above post by me

[MiffedStarfish]

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

If the light needed a counter to the dark why give the dark a foothold in Kylo in the first place

Kylo is the counter to all the Jedi students, as due to his linage he’s probably as powerful than all them put together. Then he killed them all, so Rey turned up.

Edited January 5, 2018 by MiffedStarfish

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

Kylo is the counter to all the Jedi students, as due to his linage he’s probably more powerful than all them put together. Then he killed them all, so Rey turned up.

I'm countering a theory I have heard when Kylois more powerful Rey is more powerful as if they are Litterlt the light and dark. 

*Kylo

[MiffedStarfish]

I don’t think the force adjusts power on the fly to be equal, I think it’s more like it throws two sides with roughly equal force potential into the ring, watches eagerly, waits a generation and repeats.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

I don’t think the force adjusts power on the fly to be equal, I think it’s more like it throws two sides with roughly equal force potential into the ring, watches eagerly, waits a generation and repeats.

It's a theory, I disagree with too. What do you think about The way Rey should have gone?

[MiffedStarfish]

6 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

It's a theory, I disagree with too. What do you think about The way Rey should have gone?

The age difference is a problem, as Kylo is ten years older than Rey and rey was 10 when she was left on Jakku, so not sure if the timelines would match up, and Rey’s arm being lightsabered is very cliched for Star Wars, but apart from that it sounded good.

I still really want Rey’s real name to be Jaina.

Edited January 5, 2018 by MiffedStarfish

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

The age difference is a problem, as Kylo is ten years older than Rey and rey was 10 when she was left on Jakku, so not sure if the timelines would match up, and Rey’s arm being lightsabered is very cliched for Star Wars, but apart from that it sounded good.

By mind wiped I mean with the force not just forgot and the lightsaber would go vertically it would go down where the bone normally is when the arm is straight down. It wouldn't just be part of the arm but all of it. And THANK YOU for the compliment.

[DDE]

3 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

How do you not know who Darth Plaugis is?

Winston Smith to the rescue.

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

By mind wiped I mean with the force not just forgot

*cough* Revan *cough*

[GoSlash27]

"Is Daisy Ridley right that calling Rey a Mary Sue is sexist?"

 

Absolutely not.

Best,
-Slashy

[obney kerman]

13 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

 

 

I hate it because they destroy all of the canon lore. Most importantly Rey is untrained. Every other Jedi is Trained and can't do what she does. I don't want to write it up to "Raw Powaaa"! It's so classic Disney. Star Wars is a "For kids" but making it into a cartoon in nature except for the graphics is a Dishonest form of Star Wars. Ep 7 and Ep 8 is a cartoon except with a live action camera. Rey is a bad charachter, No Training, No Discipline, Just "RAW POWAAA!" They might as well add cartoon captions that bang, pow, boom etc. Rey is more powerful than Anakin and Yet he was the chosen one, Rey is a nobody. I just want a reason linage, a prophecy, training at the temple before Jakku, some reason. Instead Disney went with the Princess with a lightsaber. "I'm powerful just because and more wise and better than Obi Wan, Anakin, Luke, Mace, Yoda and so many more." Rey beats Kylo Ren with ease. Anakin got sliced and Diced after 5 years of training maby even more. By the weakling Count Dooku. Rey beats the well trained Kylo who has had training from the best of the Light and Dark. Again Rey does this with no training.

Exactly

What is the most used line by a master in Star Wars. "Complete your training" But not Rey She is lifting caves after figuring it out on her own.

You hate characters just having raw power? Have you seen the original trilogy? Luke is just powerful. There's no explanation for palpatine's power.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 hour ago, obney kerman said:

You hate characters just having raw power? Have you seen the original trilogy? Luke is just powerful. There's no explanation for palpatine's power.

Hit me! Luke can't use his power UNTIL HE IS TRAINED. REY Isn't trained yet so she shouldn't be able to do these things.

[MiffedStarfish]

5 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Hit me! Luke can't use his power UNTIL HE IS TRAINED. REY Isn't trained yet so she shouldn't be able to do these things.

Your arguement is that Kylo shouyld have destroyed Rey, right? Maybe Kylo does have significantly greater power than Rey, but he's not harnessing them to there potential. The dark side relies on hate and anger, but Kylo dosen't have much to hate or be angry about, as far as I remember. He dosen't hate Leia, as shown when he dosen't kill her. He didn't hate Rey because she hadn't scarred him until the end of the fight, and she hadn't had any contact with Luke yet. The only person he really hates is Luke, for betraying him. Maybe he could have wrecked Rey, but he was using the dark side with relatively little dark side emotions in regard to Rey. ironically, he probably would have done better if he'd attacked with the light side of the force.

Just a theory I made up in 5 minutes.

[KSK]

3 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

"Is Daisy Ridley right that calling Rey a Mary Sue is sexist?"

Absolutely not.

Best,
-Slashy

Hey folks,

First of all, apologies for my previous post and for the unwarranted personal comments.

A couple of thoughts on the above question - I would say it depends on context. "Mary Sue" is a generic enough term that it can be applied to either male or female characters. You can substitute 'Marty Stu' or some such if you're talking about a male character but I don't think that's necessary.

So, just calling Rey a Mary Sue isn't sexist in itself.

However, I'd say that you need to be careful about why you're applying that term. I haven't watched the video (because work) so I don't have any context here but I'd argue that if the implication is that there's no way that a normal female character could be that strong/talented/powerful (pick whichever attribute you like) - therefore  she must be a Mary Sue, then I'd say that is sexist. The problem with that analysis of course is that implications are pretty subjective so there's plenty of room to disagree about what something or someone is implying.

For what it's worth I'm not ready to call Rey a Mary Sue character. Powerful - sure. Overpowered - possibly. That's fine - I think we need a foil for Kylo (a film about the First Order overpowering everybody because of Kylo would be pretty dull as well) and any such foil needs to be powerful to be credible. But a Mary Sue - I'm not seeing it.

Consider her story arc in TLJ.  Persuades Luke to give her three lessons in the Force against his better judgment and so (at last) gets some sense of her place within the Force. Is shown to be careless and prone to overexcitement (chopping that rock in half for example). Misreads her Force link with Kylo and as a result devises a plan to turn him. Gets thrown around by Snoke and only escapes because Kylo manages to disguise his intentions and kill off his master. Defeats Snoke's guards by teaming up with Kylo. And then - her plan falls apart. Kylo aint for turning and, as Luke warned her from the outset, things didn't go the way she thought they would. Finally, she's shown to be a match (in one sense) anyway for Kylo but can't defeat him. She also had to come to terms with her parentage, which may or may not turn out to be a weakness.

For all her raw strength in the Force and skill with a lightsaber, she lost. And without Kylo's intervention she would be dead. So I have to say I disagree with the idea that she's a bland, two-powerful-to-be-interesting character. Right now, I'd say (in classic Star Wars style) that she still has much to learn. How that learning is depicted in the next film will make all the difference and yes, depending on the quality of the script I can see her becoming a Mary Sue.

But for now I don't think that label is justified.

[Cheif Operations Director]

 

Just Try watching it

I don't agree with everything but it pointing out how Rey IS a Mary Sue is good and it's quick it's only 4 minutes long. Please just watch it.

44 minutes ago, KSK said:

Hey folks,

First of all, apologies for my previous post and for the unwarranted personal comments.

A couple of thoughts on the above question - I would say it depends on context. "Mary Sue" is a generic enough term that it can be applied to either male or female characters. You can substitute 'Marty Stu' or some such if you're talking about a male character but I don't think that's necessary.

So, just calling Rey a Mary Sue isn't sexist in itself.

However, I'd say that you need to be careful about why you're applying that term. I haven't watched the video (because work) so I don't have any context here but I'd argue that if the implication is that there's no way that a normal female character could be that strong/talented/powerful (pick whichever attribute you like) - therefore  she must be a Mary Sue, then I'd say that is sexist. The problem with that analysis of course is that implications are pretty subjective so there's plenty of room to disagree about what something or someone is implying.

For what it's worth I'm not ready to call Rey a Mary Sue character. Powerful - sure. Overpowered - possibly. That's fine - I think we need a foil for Kylo (a film about the First Order overpowering everybody because of Kylo would be pretty dull as well) and any such foil needs to be powerful to be credible. But a Mary Sue - I'm not seeing it.

Consider her story arc in TLJ.  Persuades Luke to give her three lessons in the Force against his better judgment and so (at last) gets some sense of her place within the Force. Is shown to be careless and prone to overexcitement (chopping that rock in half for example). Misreads her Force link with Kylo and as a result devises a plan to turn him. Gets thrown around by Snoke and only escapes because Kylo manages to disguise his intentions and kill off his master. Defeats Snoke's guards by teaming up with Kylo. And then - her plan falls apart. Kylo aint for turning and, as Luke warned her from the outset, things didn't go the way she thought they would. Finally, she's shown to be a match (in one sense) anyway for Kylo but can't defeat him. She also had to come to terms with her parentage, which may or may not turn out to be a weakness.

For all her raw strength in the Force and skill with a lightsaber, she lost. And without Kylo's intervention she would be dead. So I have to say I disagree with the idea that she's a bland, two-powerful-to-be-interesting character. Right now, I'd say (in classic Star Wars style) that she still has much to learn. How that learning is depicted in the next film will make all the difference and yes, depending on the quality of the script I can see her becoming a Mary Sue.

But for now I don't think that label is justified.

Read my alternate Rey charachter post.

Next the problem is why do we have "RAW POWAAA!" Now in the franchise why didn't Anakin get "RAW POWAAA!"

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 hour ago, MiffedStarfish said:

Your arguement is that Kylo shouyld have destroyed Rey, right? Maybe Kylo does have significantly greater power than Rey, but he's not harnessing them to there potential. The dark side relies on hate and anger, but Kylo dosen't have much to hate or be angry about, as far as I remember. He dosen't hate Leia, as shown when he dosen't kill her. He didn't hate Rey because she hadn't scarred him until the end of the fight, and she hadn't had any contact with Luke yet. The only person he really hates is Luke, for betraying him. Maybe he could have wrecked Rey, but he was using the dark side with relatively little dark side emotions in regard to Rey. ironically, he probably would have done better if he'd attacked with the light side of the force.

Just a theory I made up in 5 minutes.

My arguement isn't that Kylo should have destroyed Rey. It's that it should have been closer to the alternate scene I made up where her arm is Sliced open. Honestly none of this works. Her standing up the the Praetorian Guards?! WITH NO TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KSK]

9 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

How do you not know who Darth Plaugis is?

Your Directing a Star Wars Movie.

You answered your own question I think. So far as the movies are concerned, Plagueis is an extremely minor character that doesn't even appear on-screen and just provides a bit of background to persuade Anakin that he could save Padme from dying by joining Sidious.

And I had to look that last part up.

Therefore there's no particular reason why he should immediately have known who Plagueis was.

More generally, whilst it's  nice to think that the creators of something you care a lot about it cares about it as much as you,  that's not always the case. And even when you do get an author who's as invested in their work as his/her fans are, it's unlikely that they'll remember every last detail, particularly for sprawling, long-running works. It's why even professional authors may have beta readers and continuity checkers.

Whilst I'm certainly not a professional writer (far from it), I've been writing for long enough to appreciate how difficult it is to keep track of all the details in a long-running story, even if you're the author. I certainly wouldn't regard a failure to recall who Plagueis was as any sort of statement about someone's suitability to direct a Star Wars film.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, KSK said:

You answered your own question I think. So far as the movies are concerned, Plagueis is an extremely minor character that doesn't even appear on-screen and just provides a bit of background to persuade Anakin that he could save Padme from dying by joining Sidious.

And I had to look that last part up.

Therefore there's no particular reason why he should immediately have known who Plagueis was.

More generally, whilst it's  nice to think that the creators of something you care a lot about it cares about it as much as you,  that's not always the case. And even when you do get an author who's as invested in their work as his/her fans are, it's unlikely that they'll remember every last detail, particularly for sprawling, long-running works. It's why even professional authors may have beta readers and continuity checkers.

Whilst I'm certainly not a professional writer (far from it), I've been writing for long enough to appreciate how difficult it is to keep track of all the details in a long-running story, even if you're the author. I certainly wouldn't regard a failure to recall who Plagueis was as any sort of statement about someone's suitability to direct a Star Wars film.

He may be a small detail but the story changes the entire plot of Star Wars. I respectfully agree and disagree. 

Did anyone get my points about Rey being overpowered from the Video?

[MiffedStarfish]

16 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

My arguement isn't that Kylo should have destroyed Rey. It's that it should have been closer to the alternate scene I made up where her arm is Sliced open. Honestly none of this works. Her standing up the the Praetorian Guards?! WITH NO TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I really don’t want another arm injury, it would just be repetitive.

In the expanded universe, at one point Luke meditates and basically adds his power onto another character called Jaina. (whose actually pretty similar to rey) Luke could have been doing something like that in addition to projecting himself after the fight.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

I really don’t want another arm injury, it would just be repetitive.

In the expanded universe, at one point Luke meditates and basically adds his power onto another character called Jaina. (whose actually pretty similar to rey) Luke could have been doing something like that in addition to projecting himself after the fight.

Again in Legends. I'm not a fan of Legends honestly. Maby a leg injury. I don't care but the wound I deseiped of it going right where the bone is would be a unique and rare injury. And a very painful one. 

[MiffedStarfish]

1 minute ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Again in Legends. I'm not a fan of Legends honestly. Maby a leg injury. I don't care but the wound I deseiped of it going right where the bone is would be a unique and rare injury. And a very painful one. 

Legends is great, particularly the Thrawn books. They used Thrawn In rebels and he’s the best villain in the entire show by far. Kylo is literally Jacen from the EU. Son of Han and Leia, very strong in the force, falls to the dark side. The only difference is the name. I’m all for drawing more stuff from legends. 

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

Legends is great, particularly the Thrawn books. They used Thrawn In rebels and he’s the best villain in the entire show by far. Kylo is literally Jacen from the EU. Son of Han and Leia, very strong in the force, falls to the dark side. The only difference is the name. I’m all for drawing more stuff from legends. 

Ok whatever. I don't want to have this arguement. Did you like the video I shared.