Star Wars Episode VIII (8) the Last Jedi Discussion

[MiffedStarfish]

2 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Ok whatever. I don't want to have this arguement. Did you like the video I shared.

Didn’t watch it, im not really following the social/political side of the discussion, more the lore.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

Didn’t watch it, im not really following the social/political side of the discussion, more the lore.

It isn't political. It makes very good points though about Her being a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue isn't sexist it's a type of charachter. Please just watch it it's only 4 minutes. 

[DAL59]

Here is a good page on what a Mary Sue character is: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MaryTzu

Also, in this star wars, we finally found out where the blue milk came from!

[Piatzin]

Hello all

I have yet to watch the movie

But actually, I just wanted to ask if the movie is good, because most people seem to either love it or hate it. I'm pretty sure the average IQ on these forums is higher than in the rest of the internet, and I have yet to meet one of you who isn't a sensible person, so........story-wise, is it good...?

Should I watch it in the cinema?

Edited January 5, 2018 by Earthlinger

[Cheif Operations Director]

It's aweful

Explanation coming up

 

because Rey is overpowered and has no problems.

And Luke is a couch potato

Watch that video the title is misleading

I don't agree with everything but he points about Star Wars it's self sum it up

5 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Hello all

I have yet to watch the movie

But actually, I just wanted to ask if the movie is good, because most people seem to either love it or hate it. I'm pretty sure the average IQ on these forums is higher than in the rest of the internet, and I have yet to meet one of you who isn't a sensible person, so........story-wise, is it good...?

 

[KSK]

6 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

He may be a small detail but the story changes the entire plot of Star Wars. I respectfully agree and disagree. 

Did anyone get my points about Rey being overpowered from the Video?

I take your point but I'm not sure that Plagueis's story changes the plot. He's referenced in a key event in the plot - I'm certainly not going to dispute that. Anakin's fall to the Dark side is pretty much the main plot point in the original trilogy and the prequels. But we already know about Anakin's fall after Episode IV and then we learn the truth about it in Episode V and have it confirmed in Episode VI. The fine details of how he fell (and Plagueis's rather indirect role in it) aren't so important I don't think. Although it is interesting, at least to me! I've always been a sucker for an origin story.

I've watched the video and yes - I agree that the 'Mary Sue' label is neither here nor there, as I mentioned earlier. And yes, the video has a point about Luke's abilities vs Rey's. I think the video makes rather too much of the supposed differences between Anakin (not a Mary Sue) and Rey (a Mary Sue) though and I disagree with it there. Anakin is rather more obviously flagged up as a Special Character is all. The point it makes about Anakin needing help with certain things (like politics) is true enough for example but so far Rey has only been put into a rather limited set of circumstances, usually involving fighting or running. Now (again as I mentioned earlier) I'm quite happy to change my opinion based on what we see in the next film (it may turn out that Rey really is better at everything than everyone else although I really hope not) but for the moment I'm sticking with my opinion that she's not a Mary Sue.  

I also disagree that there's no reason presented for some of her skills, particularly her ability with a lightsaber, although this might just be my take on the films. When we first meet Rey in Episode VII, we see her armed with a staff and able to fight with it quite effectively. Now, fighting with a lightsaber isn't going to be an awful lot like fighting with a staff but at least there's a reason given for her agility, physical condition and ability to handle melee weapons. I'm wondering if Rey's fighting abilities are analogous to Anakin's piloting abilities - they're both the way in which the Force initially manifests itself in them and to some extent they're dictated by circumstances - Anakin uses racing as a way out of the worst of his slavery, whereas Rey is a lone female on a fairly hostile world.

Now this is where I wander off into the weeds a bit but hopefully some of this is backed up by established canon.  We know that aggression and anger are portrayed as making a Force user powerful but are also seen as the path to the Dark Side. We're told as much by Yoda in Episode V and that's consistent with Luke's fighting abilities in Episode VI. When he rescues Han, he's on the offensive, going for the fight - despite Yoda's admonition that a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Similarly it's only when Vader threatens to turn Leia in their final battle that Luke loses his cool - and becomes angry enough to defeat Vader. His real victory is of course realising what he's doing and consciously deciding to stop.

Now - whenever we see Rey fighting in Episodes VII and VIII she's almost invariably - and very visibly - angry. She's taken the easy path - the Darker path - to power and it makes her strong despite her lack of (or near lack of) formal training. After all - how much training does it take to get angry with someone.

So I'm thinking that fighting using the Force is comparatively easy. Trust your feelings, let go and the Force will flow within you. Ultimately that does have to be tempered with some control and this (I hope) is something that we'll see Rey learning. However, fighting like a Jedi is not at all easy. First of all you must suppress those oh-so-useful feelings of anger and aggression in a fight (and not feeling aggressive in a fight strikes me as being pretty hard  ) along with the power they lend you. Then you must also find your own power in calm logic and conscious control rather than giving in to emotion. That's tricky for any skill - if you've acquired a skill to the point where you have muscle memory for it, then thinking too hard about what you're doing can actually be detrimental. So a fighting Jedi is simultaneously juggling two or three conflicting requirements whilst under a great deal of pressure. That I can well imagine takes a lot of training to do well.

It's not what Rey is doing though. She's taking the easy path, which is why she appears to be so impressive with so little training.

[MiffedStarfish]

8 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Hello all

I have yet to watch the movie

But actually, I just wanted to ask if the movie is good, because most people seem to either love it or hate it. I'm pretty sure the average IQ on these forums is higher than in the rest of the internet, and I have yet to meet one of you who isn't a sensible person, so........story-wise, is it good...?

Should I watch it in the cinema?

I liked it. Some people think it ruined the lore completely, etc... but for me, it didn’t seem too separated from the Star Wars universe at face value, with the consistently excellent cinematography that comes with high budget films, and an original plot. There’s one scene in particular that has become my favourite in all sci-fi for its sheer impact. (Ey... ) Overall, I’d say definitely worth watching at the cinema.

Edited January 5, 2018 by MiffedStarfish

[PakledHostage]

5 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Should I watch it in the cinema?

It is great. Go see it in the theatre for the big screen spectacle.

[Cheif Operations Director]

10 minutes ago, KSK said:

I take your point but I'm not sure that Plagueis's story changes the plot. He's referenced in a key event in the plot - I'm certainly not going to dispute that. Anakin's fall to the Dark side is pretty much the main plot point in the original trilogy and the prequels. But we already know about Anakin's fall after Episode IV and then we learn the truth about it in Episode V and have it confirmed in Episode VI. The fine details of how he fell (and Plagueis's rather indirect role in it) aren't so important I don't think. Although it is interesting, at least to me! I've always been a sucker for an origin story.

I've watched the video and yes - I agree that the 'Mary Sue' label is neither here nor there, as I mentioned earlier. And yes, the video has a point about Luke's abilities vs Rey's. I think the video makes rather too much of the supposed differences between Anakin (not a Mary Sue) and Rey (a Mary Sue) though and I disagree with it there. Anakin is rather more obviously flagged up as a Special Character is all. The point it makes about Anakin needing help with certain things (like politics) is true enough for example but so far Rey has only been put into a rather limited set of circumstances, usually involving fighting or running. Now (again as I mentioned earlier) I'm quite happy to change my opinion based on what we see in the next film (it may turn out that Rey really is better at everything than everyone else although I really hope not) but for the moment I'm sticking with my opinion that she's not a Mary Sue.  

I also disagree that there's no reason presented for some of her skills, particularly her ability with a lightsaber, although this might just be my take on the films. When we first meet Rey in Episode VII, we see her armed with a staff and able to fight with it quite effectively. Now, fighting with a lightsaber isn't going to be an awful lot like fighting with a staff but at least there's a reason given for her agility, physical condition and ability to handle melee weapons. I'm wondering if Rey's fighting abilities are analogous to Anakin's piloting abilities - they're both the way in which the Force initially manifests itself in them and to some extent they're dictated by circumstances - Anakin uses racing as a way out of the worst of his slavery, whereas Rey is a lone female on a fairly hostile world.

Now this is where I wander off into the weeds a bit but hopefully some of this is backed up by established canon.  We know that aggression and anger are portrayed as making a Force user powerful but are also seen as the path to the Dark Side. We're told as much by Yoda in Episode V and that's consistent with Luke's fighting abilities in Episode VI. When he rescues Han, he's on the offensive, going for the fight - despite Yoda's admonition that a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Similarly it's only when Vader threatens to turn Leia in their final battle that Luke loses his cool - and becomes angry enough to defeat Vader. His real victory is of course realising what he's doing and consciously deciding to stop.

Now - whenever we see Rey fighting in Episodes VII and VIII she's almost invariably - and very visibly - angry. She's taken the easy path - the Darker path - to power and it makes her strong despite her lack of (or near lack of) formal training. After all - how much training does it take to get angry with someone.

So I'm thinking that fighting using the Force is comparatively easy. Trust your feelings, let go and the Force will flow within you. Ultimately that does have to be tempered with some control and this (I hope) is something that we'll see Rey learning. However, fighting like a Jedi is not at all easy. First of all you must suppress those oh-so-useful feelings of anger and aggression in a fight (and not feeling aggressive in a fight strikes me as being pretty hard  ) along with the power they lend you. Then you must also find your own power in calm logic and conscious control rather than giving in to emotion. That's tricky for any skill - if you've acquired a skill to the point where you have muscle memory for it, then thinking too hard about what you're doing can actually be detrimental. So a fighting Jedi is simultaneously juggling two or three conflicting requirements whilst under a great deal of pressure. That I can well imagine takes a lot of training to do well.

It's not what Rey is doing though. She's taking the easy path, which is why she appears to be so impressive with so little training.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't referring the The Plaugis Video but the Mary Sue video I posted.

 

 

Here is an alternative idea to show her power. 

ok here is an idea Instead of the disaster of a plot we get what if they went with the fan theory that Rey was ONCE TRAINED. Let me explain PLEASE! Ok so in short that Rey once trained at the academy and escaped/evacuated either or and then had her memory erased by skywlaker and let her on Jakku. When she wasn't reminded of the force we tapped into her former self and began to remember. Especially when Kylo said the word force. It would trigger her mind to use all her trained power. THIS WOULD DESTROY THE ENITRE ARUGUEMNT OF A MARY SUE! It would make complete sense. She has a higher than normal force ability but inst over powered but instead was trained and "forgot" She was still not proficient but used her former knowledge to her ability. In Ep 8 this would be revealed on Ach To. Luke would still be a grumpy person and say the Jedi would end but instead would help her develop her abilities like Mace Windu. Using the Dark and the Light But for the benifit of others. She would be pretty much in terms of light and dark Mace Windu. This way Luke sets up the 3rd Jedi Order in the canon The Users of the light and the dark for Lightside ideals such as mercy, compassion,  etc. This way Luke isn't wasted. Rey has a legitimate reason for her power. Also further adding some obstacles in her path like the inability to remember her former training and self and the Luke Temple and such would be nice to make her more relatable to the Audiance. Lastly a scene would be her about to be killed By Kylo Because she was arrogant when he strikes she falls of the edge of a railing. Into a escape pod. Kylo Jumps down as the door closes. The lightsaber penitrates the pod and goes down her arm into her bone verticly so her arm is stil, attached but useless. The pod fires as this happens. This requires a Cybernetic Arm. This way it shows she isn't perfect and needs to study more and also shows some physical trama for her Hero Status. This would make Rey into SUCH A BETTER CHARACTER in my Opinion.

Thoughts?

Further to represent her Balance of Light and Dark. She would have her traditional Jedi Robes but instead a black cape. Like Darth Vader. And a Purple Lightsaber.

 

 

•  

Edited January 5, 2018 by Cheif Operations Director

[Piatzin]

2 minutes ago, PakledHostage said:

It is great. Go see it in the theatre for the big screen spectacle.

Mebbe

[TheSaint]

10 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Should I watch it in the cinema?

I am ambivalent about the movie. I think it is more big-screen blockbuster than Star Wars, and taken as such it is...not bad. But, if you are going to see it, definitely see it in the theaters. The one thing that it really has going for it is the special effects spectacle, and the only way to enjoy a film like that is on the big screen.

[Cheif Operations Director]

10 minutes ago, KSK said:

I take your point but I'm not sure that Plagueis's story changes the plot. He's referenced in a key event in the plot - I'm certainly not going to dispute that. Anakin's fall to the Dark side is pretty much the main plot point in the original trilogy and the prequels. But we already know about Anakin's fall after Episode IV and then we learn the truth about it in Episode V and have it confirmed in Episode VI. The fine details of how he fell (and Plagueis's rather indirect role in it) aren't so important I don't think. Although it is interesting, at least to me! I've always been a sucker for an origin story.

I've watched the video and yes - I agree that the 'Mary Sue' label is neither here nor there, as I mentioned earlier. And yes, the video has a point about Luke's abilities vs Rey's. I think the video makes rather too much of the supposed differences between Anakin (not a Mary Sue) and Rey (a Mary Sue) though and I disagree with it there. Anakin is rather more obviously flagged up as a Special Character is all. The point it makes about Anakin needing help with certain things (like politics) is true enough for example but so far Rey has only been put into a rather limited set of circumstances, usually involving fighting or running. Now (again as I mentioned earlier) I'm quite happy to change my opinion based on what we see in the next film (it may turn out that Rey really is better at everything than everyone else although I really hope not) but for the moment I'm sticking with my opinion that she's not a Mary Sue.  

I also disagree that there's no reason presented for some of her skills, particularly her ability with a lightsaber, although this might just be my take on the films. When we first meet Rey in Episode VII, we see her armed with a staff and able to fight with it quite effectively. Now, fighting with a lightsaber isn't going to be an awful lot like fighting with a staff but at least there's a reason given for her agility, physical condition and ability to handle melee weapons. I'm wondering if Rey's fighting abilities are analogous to Anakin's piloting abilities - they're both the way in which the Force initially manifests itself in them and to some extent they're dictated by circumstances - Anakin uses racing as a way out of the worst of his slavery, whereas Rey is a lone female on a fairly hostile world.

Now this is where I wander off into the weeds a bit but hopefully some of this is backed up by established canon.  We know that aggression and anger are portrayed as making a Force user powerful but are also seen as the path to the Dark Side. We're told as much by Yoda in Episode V and that's consistent with Luke's fighting abilities in Episode VI. When he rescues Han, he's on the offensive, going for the fight - despite Yoda's admonition that a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Similarly it's only when Vader threatens to turn Leia in their final battle that Luke loses his cool - and becomes angry enough to defeat Vader. His real victory is of course realising what he's doing and consciously deciding to stop.

Now - whenever we see Rey fighting in Episodes VII and VIII she's almost invariably - and very visibly - angry. She's taken the easy path - the Darker path - to power and it makes her strong despite her lack of (or near lack of) formal training. After all - how much training does it take to get angry with someone.

So I'm thinking that fighting using the Force is comparatively easy. Trust your feelings, let go and the Force will flow within you. Ultimately that does have to be tempered with some control and this (I hope) is something that we'll see Rey learning. However, fighting like a Jedi is not at all easy. First of all you must suppress those oh-so-useful feelings of anger and aggression in a fight (and not feeling aggressive in a fight strikes me as being pretty hard  ) along with the power they lend you. Then you must also find your own power in calm logic and conscious control rather than giving in to emotion. That's tricky for any skill - if you've acquired a skill to the point where you have muscle memory for it, then thinking too hard about what you're doing can actually be detrimental. So a fighting Jedi is simultaneously juggling two or three conflicting requirements whilst under a great deal of pressure. That I can well imagine takes a lot of training to do well.

It's not what Rey is doing though. She's taking the easy path, which is why she appears to be so impressive with so little training.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I finished look at my last post

@KSK

My biggest problem is that Rey has never even taught how to even use the force. Furthur She doesn't even know what it is. If I don't know advanced physics how can I be expected to figure it out much less give a lecture on it. She only knows what Han Taught her... again Han and a cheap thing by Skywalker about how the Jedi must end. How can she levitate objects much less use a mindtrick. This is all in Ep 7 I remind you. In Ep 8 She lifts pretty much a cliff off the ground far greater than the mass of an X-Wing which Luke couldn't do. 

Again with no Dicipline, OR FOCUS

[KSK]

36 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I finished look at my last post

@KSK

My biggest problem is that Rey has never even taught how to even use the force. Furthur She doesn't even know what it is. If I don't know advanced physics how can I be expected to figure it out much less give a lecture on it. She only knows what Han Taught her... again Han and a cheap thing by Skywalker about how the Jedi must end. How can she levitate objects much less use a mindtrick. This is all in Ep 7 I remind you. In Ep 8 She lifts pretty much a cliff off the ground far greater than the mass of an X-Wing which Luke couldn't do. 

Again with no Dicipline, OR FOCUS

Well that was kind of my point. She isn't fighting with discipline or focus - not consciously at any rate. Instead she just gives in to her feelings and lets go. The Force does the rest after that.

And you do have a point about being taught to use the Force - but established canon on that is extremely woolly anyway. I mean, Obi-Wan's method of teaching Luke to use it was to cover his eyes (because they can deceive) and tell him to reach out with his feelings. Besides, the Force is just a label - I'm not sure you need to know what its called in order to use it. And from Episode VIII we know that Rey has always had something powerful inside her and has been frightened of it. Luke's lesson helps her see that the force inside her is the same thing as the Force that she perceives all around her. At that point I can only imagine (again, this is just my interpretation) that using it becomes a lot easier, once she's no longer afraid of it and can fully trust it.

Also a genuine question - do we ever see Rey do a mind trick? We see her resisting Ren's interrogation and in a twisted sort of way I can imagine that being a very short sharp lesson in Force mind tricks but that really is just my interpretation! For that matter - do we ever see Luke being trained in mind tricks? It's possible that he's taught them off-screen somewhere but its not obvious. He's definitely acquired the ability by the start of Episode VI though.

Canonically, I'm thinking that quite a lot of Jedi abilities are self-taught. A classic example is in the Return of the Jedi book - in the final battle, Luke starts off by being able to deflect the Emperor's lightning before being overwhelmed by it. The book outright states that he's never heard of such a perversion of the Force - but he realises that if something is Force generated then it can be Force repelled. So repel it he does, at least to begin with.

Finally - levitation. That is the one Jedi skill that I can imagine relies more on raw powah than anything else. You'll note that we didn't see Rey lifting eggs or anything that requires delicate handling and control. Although admittedly my argument would be more convincing if she'd just thrown the rocks away at the end of the film rather than stacking them up neatly! And umm, summoning a lightsaber requires control. OK, forget this argument!

But comparing her to Luke? Luke failing to lift the X-wing was his lesson that he still wasn't fully trusting the Force. To him it seemed like an impossible feat - and therefore it was. Whereas Rey was able to lift the rocks because she'd fully accepted the Force at that point.

Yours is a fair point though - I can just rationalise it away in a way that I'm comfortable with.

Edit. Good point also about the advanced physics. However, I'm not sure if even the greatest Jedi masters truly understand the Force. They can use it in exquisitely subtle ways but whether they understand how it does what it does is an open question I think.  To use an analogy from my own writing, it's a bit like you or me simply moving an arm. You can explain it in great detail in terms of the molecular basis of muscle action and nerve impulse transmission but that's different to understanding how I, the conscious entity, decides to move an arm and then makes that happen. 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by KSK

[Cheif Operations Director]

@KSK

She uses a mind trick against A storm trooper in Ep VII.

Yes They might be self taught but not that early into Jedihood. 

She is the only Jedi EVER To not need a master or a freind to do the journey together with. She has no one and yet is more powerful than everyone else.

Did you like my Alternative idea for rey

[KSK]

5 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

@KSK

She uses a mind trick against A storm trooper in Ep VII.

Yes They might be self taught but not that early into Jedihood. 

She is the only Jedi EVER To not need a master or a freind to do the journey together with. She has no one and yet is more powerful than everyone else.

Did you like my Alternative idea for rey

Ahh, OK. Couldn't remember that part. Hmmm, if that happens after her interrogation I can rationalise it (as mentioned above) but I'm also conscious that I'm rationalising rather a lot here which isn't a great sign.

As for the journey, I'll concede that hers is pretty short but I would argue that she did still need Luke to help her along the way. Also, she's also only part way through it and not, I would argue, more powerful than Kylo. 

Tell you what - we'll start an Episode VIV thread if we're still here in a year or so and I will cheerfully and publically eat a large slice of humble pie if Rey does turn out to be a Super Force User with no additional training - whether that be from a Force ghost mentor, practice, or an event in her life that you can see would give her some sort of insight into the Force and how better to use it!

Your alternative idea for Rey certainly hangs together well and its a good way of overcoming the parts of her story that you find objectionable. I liked Rey's story in the film though and (as you'll probably have gathered by now  ) the parts that irritate you, I don't really mind. So, if I was being completely honest, I would say your version is different rather than better although its certainly not any worse either. That's just my opinion though and, as I said, its coming from someone who liked Rey's story in the film, which gives me a bit of a bias.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, KSK said:

Ahh, OK. Couldn't remember that part. Hmmm, if that happens after her interrogation I can rationalise it (as mentioned above) but I'm also conscious that I'm rationalising rather a lot here which isn't a great sign.

As for the journey, I'll concede that hers is pretty short but I would argue that she did still need Luke to help her along the way. Also, she's also only part way through it and not, I would argue, more powerful than Kylo. 

Tell you what - we'll start an Episode VIV thread if we're still here in a year or so and I will cheerfully and publically eat a large slice of humble pie if Rey does turn out to be a Super Force User with no additional training - whether that be from a Force ghost mentor, practice, or an event in her life that you can see would give her some sort of insight into the Force and how better to use it!

Your alternative idea for Rey certainly hangs together well and its a good way of overcoming the parts of her story that you find objectionable. I liked Rey's story in the film though and (as you'll probably have gathered by now  ) the parts that irritate you, I don't really mind. So, if I was being completely honest, I would say your version is different rather than better although its certainly not any worse either. That's just my opinion though and, as I said, its coming from someone who liked Rey's story in the film, which gives me a bit of a bias.

Fair enough, what in my story didn't you like I'm simply curious.

P.S. 9 is IX in Roman numerals.

[KSK]

2 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Fair enough, what in my story didn't you like I'm simply curious.

P.S. 9 is IX in Roman numerals.

D'oh - thank you. 

It's not that I didn't like your version, it's just that its set up to solve a bunch of problems that you had with the film but that I didn't. Hence I didn't think your version was necessarily better than what we actually got with the film but I certainly wouldn't have been upset about watching it on the big screen either. Let me put it this way - I paid to watch The Last Jedi twice. I'm pretty sure I would have done the same for your version of it too.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, KSK said:

D'oh - thank you. 

It's not that I didn't like your version, it's just that its set up to solve a bunch of problems that you had with the film but that I didn't. Hence I didn't think your version was necessarily better than what we actually got with the film but I certainly wouldn't have been upset about watching it on the big screen either. Let me put it this way - I paid to watch The Last Jedi twice. I'm pretty sure I would have done the same for your version of it too.

Ok cool

[MiffedStarfish]

20 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Ok cool

The main problem I see with it is that though Rey would have been wiped and not recognise Kylo, Kylo would recognise Rey. Apart from that, it does make sense.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, MiffedStarfish said:

The main problem I see with it is that though Rey would have been wiped and not recognise Kylo, Kylo would recognise Rey. Apart from that, it does make sense.

Maby not. It's possible that they never saw each other in the temple. It's also possible that Kylo wouldn't recognize her because so much has happened since then. It's like when you see a old freind at the mall. It's like hmm where do I know them from? Although you do present a good point.

Thoughts?

[MiffedStarfish]

14 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Maby not. It's possible that they never saw each other in the temple. It's also possible that Kylo wouldn't recognize her because so much has happened since then. It's like when you see a old freind at the mall. It's like hmm where do I know them from? Although you do present a good point.

Thoughts?

I don’t know, I don’t think Jedi temple could really have been that big. I’ve got about 60 people in my year at school, and I know all of their names. Let’s say Rey would be at the school from the age of 3, she was ten when she was dumped on Jakku, so assuming that was fairly soon after the burning of the temple, that’s still seven years for him to have seen her somewhere. Also, presuming Luke sensed her force potential she could have been put in the “top class” of highest ability younglings, along with Kylo. Apart from that I do like the idea, and kinda wish some story like that had played out as opposed to “ur parents are alcoholics” 

Edited January 5, 2018 by MiffedStarfish

[GoSlash27]

KSK,

 I really have no way of convincing you that your personal view of Rey is "wrong", and I won't bother trying

 I would, however, like to point out that a "Mary Sue" character is about a lot more than just being overpowered. Here's a common list of Mary Sue traits:

*Implausibly good at everything s/he attempts with no prior training or experience
*Better at the tasks of other protagonists that are their specialty
*No noticeable imperfections or weaknesses
*Universally liked and admired by all other characters, including occasionally their enemies.
*Never seen struggling; everything comes easily
 

 I would argue that Rey is a textbook example of this in all respects. Better at flying the Millenium Falcon than Han Solo (with zero previous flight experience) and also better at fixing it than Chewbacca. Better marksman than everybody else on a battlefield with no experience. Able to defeat a room full of Imperial Guards with no training. Has only just met Chewbacca, but is interpreting for Luke Skywalker, who has known Chewie for decades. Everybody knows Rey. Everybody loves Rey at first sight. Even Snoke loves Rey. Rey never gets into any serious trouble where she needs help. She's more likely to end up rescuing whoever is sent to rescue her. And on, and, on, and on....

 So yeah... if it's not enough of a problem to distract *you*, then for *you* she doesn't qualify as a "Mary Sue". But I'm sure you can see how, objectively, others might.

 Best,
-Slashy

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

2 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

KSK,

 I really have no way of convincing you that your personal view of Rey is "wrong", and I won't bother trying

 I would, however, like to point out that a "Mary Sue" character is about a lot more than just being overpowered. Here's a common list of Mary Sue traits:

*Implausibly good at everything s/he attempts with no prior training or experience
*Better at the tasks of other protagonists that are their specialty
*No noticeable imperfections or weaknesses
*Universally liked and admired by all other characters, including occasionally their enemies.
*Never seen struggling; everything comes easily
 

 I would argue that Rey is a textbook example of this in all respects. Better at flying the Millenium Falcon than Han Solo (with zero previous flight experience) and also better at fixing it than Chewbacca. Better marksman than everybody else on a battlefield with no experience. Able to defeat a room full of Imperial Guards with no training. Has only just met Chewbacca, but is interpreting for Luke Skywalker, who has known Chewie for decades. Everybody knows Rey. Everybody loves Rey at first sight. Even Snoke loves Rey. Rey never gets into any serious trouble where she needs help. She's more likely to end up rescuing whoever is sent to rescue her. And on, and, on, and on....

 So yeah... if it's not enough of a problem to distract *you*, then for *you* she doesn't qualify as a "Mary Sue". But I'm sure you can see how, objectively, others might.

 Best,
-Slashy

 

Agreed. Did you like my Alternative Rey Charachter.

[GoSlash27]

COD,
 I hadn't read it. Nothing personal, but I'm not interested in alternate storylines, characters, etc. I'm just interested in why what we got was so bad.
 

 I'm really interested in finding out how this screenplay wound up being so bad. JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson are credited with the screenplay, but I don't picture them writing this. In both cases, previous scripts had a lot more complex characters and conflict than this.

Best,
-Slashy

[DDE]

17 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

I'm really interested in finding out how this screenplay wound up being so bad. JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson are credited with the screenplay, but I don't picture them writing this. In both cases, previous scripts had a lot more complex characters and conflict than this.

From what I understand, Abrams has had no hand in the final plot, which is why much of TFA's foreshadowing (e.g. re: Rey Skywalker) went into the gutter.

Then you have that-thing-that-must-not-be-named. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of Ep IX the usual perception of Force sensitivity as hereditary or requiring training is going to be gleefully demolished.

Omnipresent magical hive minds, what could possibly go wrong?