Turning a space plane on the ground

[davidpsummers]

I have a space plane I use to land on Lythe.  Given that I don't have a runway, I just drop it down by parachute.  Then I look for a someplace I can take off.  The has worked so far but...

I find that the landing gear no longer are able to turn planes (except the smallest one that doesn't do what I need).  RCS don't seem to be able to turn the plane very fast at all.  The same with the small reaction wheel module.  Any help?

Where is a picture of the plane.

 

[Geonovast]

You can toggle your engines off individually.  Shut off the left one to go left, the right one to go right.

[davidpsummers]

1 hour ago, Geonovast said:

You can toggle your engines off individually.  Shut off the left one to go left, the right one to go right.

Doesn't seem to make enough of a difference....

[Geonovast]

3 minutes ago, davidpsummers said:

Doesn't seem to make enough of a difference....

Without steerable landing gear (there are mods that give you larger steerable gear) or a good number of reaction wheels, offset thrust is really you only option.

You might be able to get out and push, but I'm not sure how effective that would be.

I really think the small gear would be good enough for that plane.  How heavy is it?  I have an SSTO that's about that size and uses 3 of the smallest stock gear.  ~26 tons.

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Geonovast

[davidpsummers]

56 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

Without steerable landing gear (there are mods that give you larger steerable gear) or a good number of reaction wheels, offset thrust is really you only option.

You might be able to get out and push, but I'm not sure how effective that would be.

I really think the small gear would be good enough for that plane.  How heavy is it?  I have an SSTO that's about that size and uses 3 of the smallest stock gear.  ~26 tons.

 

Its not weight.  If I use the small gear, it would have no clearance. I'm taking off with out a runway on sloping terrain.  

 

Can Kerbals really push?  How do you do that?

[Foxster]

The Medium Landing Gear are steerable too, not just the small ones. 

Putting landing gear on Small Hardpoints gives some handy extra ground clearance.  

Another thing to try would be...

The "pivot" touches the ground when the landing gear is raised. It needs to be at the CoM, though if its a bit off and one end of the craft touches the ground it tends to still rotate OK. The craft will  rotate on this just by reaction wheels or with RCS too if its a  larger craft. 

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Foxster

[Guest]

Use medium landing gear at least on the nose. Adjust vertically to line them up. If necessary, add a spacer: hardpoint, wing connector, or fuel tank with nose cones will all work. Since your main gear is mounted on the wings which are mounted up, using one size smaller gear on the  nose would give the plane a better resting attitude and solve your steering problem.

Also IMO you don't need large landing gear on a plane this size: I'd just put medium on the wings with steering locked, and small on the nose. But large + medium will work too and might give it a bit more tolerance for hard landings (although I think the wings would come off before the springs on medium gear bottomed out).

(As an aside, Laythe is easy to land on, you don't need parachutes or even drogue chutes. It has somewhat lower gravity than Kerbin which means touchdowns are gentler, and while the place has a bit of a topography sufficiently flat places are quite common; it's rare that you'll even need to use jets to find one.)

Edited February 14, 2018 by Guest

[bewing]

8 hours ago, davidpsummers said:

Doesn't seem to make enough of a difference....

Then activate the brakes on one landing gear while you are using offset thrust.

 

[davidpsummers]

OK.  Good comments.  Thanks!

[Geschosskopf]

11 hours ago, davidpsummers said:

OK.  Good comments.  Thanks!

If you're not against using mods, there's also Kerbal Foundries.  This includes aircraft landing gear of all sizes (S, M, L) that not only are capable of steering but also include rover motors, so you can taxi without running the main engine.  This latter is especially useful because it allows movement in reverse if your main engines lack thrust reversers.  Being able to back up is very important on other planets, due to terrain obstacles.

[Marschig]

On 14.02.2018 at 4:01 AM, davidpsummers said:

I find that the landing gear no longer are able to turn planes

Try to set "Friction Control" to 0 on the nose landing gear. It could help.

[davidpsummers]

On 2/15/2018 at 11:42 AM, Marschig said:

Try to set "Friction Control" to 0 on the nose landing gear. It could help.

So that is "friction against the ground" and not "friction used to stop the wheel turning"?  Good to know.

[A_name]

On 14/2/2018 at 4:04 AM, Brikoleur said:

(As an aside, Laythe is easy to land on, you don't need parachutes or even drogue chutes. It has somewhat lower gravity than Kerbin which means touchdowns are gentler, and while the place has a bit of a topography sufficiently flat places are quite common; it's rare that you'll even need to use jets to find one.)

Beach landings FTW.

 

Edit: Water landing and takeoff also deserve serious consideration for a Laythe plane, as most of its surface is covered in ocean. Landing in the water is possible for pretty much any craft as long as you come in gently enough. However, getting back out of the water is another story. Some designs need hydrofoils to take off from water. You can test it in Kerbin's oceans.

Edited March 2, 2018 by A_name

[KerikBalm]

On 2/15/2018 at 8:42 PM, Marschig said:

Try to set "Friction Control" to 0 on the nose landing gear. It could help.

This. I absolutely use this all the time on my massive SSTOs, where the small and medium landing gear won't cut it. It won't give you any steering control, but it essentially acts as a wheel on a swivel, and won't resist other methods of steering.

Friction on the front wheels to 0 (they act as swiveling wheels with no brakes like this), then reaction wheels, rudders, or differential thrust(thrust reversing engines are absolutely great for this) can steer for you.

Another option that I sometimes do is to have separate nose wheels for "ground handling" and takeoff/landing. Essentially, right in front of your (extra?) large nose gear, put a medium size landing gear. It won't touch  when the other nose gear is extended, but then you can just retract the large nose gear to steer your plane around on the ground. Then extend the large nose gear again for takeoff.