Looking for a realism mod that replaces ore

[b0ss]

Hi all,

So I'm aiming for a realistic-as-possible gameplay experience, and the stock ore system really takes away from that. I'm looking for a mod that replaces ore's convertibility into LFO with something like "aqueous hydrocarbon" or similar, without doing away with ore completely and keeping it so that it can still be used to make RocketParts with mods like Keridian Dynamics. I've considered Karbonite, Kethane, Karborundum, etc. but they all seem to be based in the same unrealistic principle as ore, if not worse, or that they assume that LiquidFuel is just liquid hydrogen and can just be extracted from water electrolysis. I intend to use Cryogenic Engines so this is obviously a problem.

Any and all responses are greatly appreciated, please keep in mind that I am very incompetent when it comes to video games and deeper-level computer stuff and that obvious config-edit solutions / etc. may not be so obvious to me!  Thank you for being one of the friendliest and most helpful communities on the web

 

Shameless piggyback question: how do I ensure intake engines from mods only work on oxygenated planets?

Edited February 25, 2018 by b0ss

[MaximumThrust]

51 minutes ago, b0ss said:

Hi all,

So I'm aiming for a realistic-as-possible gameplay experience, and the stock ore system really takes away from that. I'm looking for a mod that replaces ore's convertibility into LFO with something like "aqueous hydrocarbon" or similar, without doing away with ore completely and keeping it so that it can still be used to make RocketParts with mods like Keridian Dynamics. I've considered Karbonite, Kethane, Karborundum, etc. but they all seem to be based in the same unrealistic principle as ore, if not worse, or that they assume that LiquidFuel is just liquid hydrogen and can just be extracted from water electrolysis. I intend to use Cryogenic Engines so this is obviously a problem.

Any and all responses are greatly appreciated, please keep in mind that I am very incompetent when it comes to video games and deeper-level computer stuff and that obvious config-edit solutions / etc. may not be so obvious to me!  Thank you for being one of the friendliest and most helpful communities on the web

 

Shameless piggyback question: how do I ensure intake engines from mods only work on oxygenated planets?

They have a flag for that in the module:

Spoiler

MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleResourceIntake
        resourceName = IntakeAir
        checkForOxygen = true
        area = 0.001
        intakeSpeed = 10
        intakeTransformName = Intake
        machCurve
        {
            key = 0 0.85 0 0
            key = 1 1 0 0
            key = 2 0.95 -0.08751557 -0.08751557
            key = 4 0.5 -0.4034287 -0.4034287
            key = 8 0.01 0 0
        }
    }

About the fuels, it's a totally different preference from mine. I like the generic/abstract ore and liquid fuel. Tried to use LH2, it was fun, but too much trouble with compatibility with other mods and SSTOs. But I guess I could help to point you in the right direction.

Almost every big mod uses the Community Resource Pack. Every resource and it's definitions will be there, I think it's a good start point: 

Also this: 

And Kerbal Planetary Base systems had a pretty interesting integration with TAC-LS, where some resources/rejects integrated in the system where fuels:

https://github.com/Nils277/KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems/wiki/Life-Support-Guide#tac-ls

Good luck!

[b0ss]

Thank you! That was a lot of help. Planetary Base Systems was already on my mod lineup but I had no idea that it had all those fancy life support parts. I just need to ask Nils how I can get it to run on Kerbalism's resources

Resource Pack always confused me because I could never find a list of what resources were included in it! Guess my hunch about using it anyway was right. Anyway which resource would you recommend to use as unrefined LFO as a replacement for ore?

[DStaal]

For the ore->rocketparts changes, you might want to check out MKS - it includes some patches that make EL use MaterialKits instead, and has an extended chain to build MaterialKits.  (Including several types of ores, and some intermediate products.)  Though note that MKS and Kerbalism don't work together.  (But those configs will work without MKS - you'll just need to make parts to mine and refine the resources...)

[hypervelocity]

you can mine Hydrates (to obtain Water and then split it to get LH2-LOX for Cryo Engines), harvest CO2 (for Methane creation via the SABATIER reaction) and more with the following mod:

I also wish there would be a full realistic suite for in situ RU and construction though.

Edited February 27, 2018 by hypervelocity

[b0ss]

Hey that might just be what I'm looking for! All I need to do is edit some of the configs i guess. Thanks, man!

6 hours ago, hypervelocity said:

I also wish there would be a full realistic suite for in situ RU and construction though.

Right? So silly that something that can be processed into LFO also gets processed into radio dishes and rocket engines.

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, b0ss said:

Right? So silly that something that can be processed into LFO also gets processed into radio dishes and rocket engines.

I think taniwha might actually appreciate a stand-alone mod that changed that for EL.  He did build the capability into the mod, after all...

[b0ss]

Can you elaborate a little more? I'm interested

[DStaal]

EL works via 'recipes'.  Every part (and some resources) has a recipe for what resources are needed to build it, and what it breaks down into - based on percentage of mass or cost.  (I'm not sure which off the top of my head.)  The default recipe build recipe is '100% RocketParts' - but that can be changed via an MM config.  Here's the basic recipe from MKS (note it also has recipes for a few resources, and for recycling - I'm not going to post the whole file):

EL_DefaultStructureRecipe:NEEDS[Launchpad]
{
    MaterialKits = 0.8
    SpecializedParts = 0.2
}

That replaces the need for RocketParts to needing both MaterialKits and SpecializedParts, in an 80/20 ratio.  Building MaterialKits in MKS takes Polymers, Metals, and Chemicals - which are refined from Substrate, MetallicOre, and Minerals, respectively.  So to build with EL and MKS, you need to mine those three, process them into the middle three, and then process that into MaterialKits - SpecializedParts takes another three ores, and needs Chemicals to process two of those into an intermediary.  That gives you a moderately detailed supply chain, which you can find a graph of here: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Resources

If you don't like MKS's supply chain (or want to use Kerbalism, or just want something stand-alone) you could fairly easily make up a set of recipes yourself, and once you've worked out what the whole supply chain would be you can define your own resources (or use those in CRP), and then make some parts for each stage.  If you're not a moddler, the parts could start as MM clones of stock drills/converters/tanks, and you could ask for help once you've got the technical details of the resource chain worked out.

Also note that the above is the *default* recipe - it's possible to have recipes for specific parts, though that's even more uncommon.  But I know I've submitted PRs for specific resources in some cases as well.  (For instance, in RoverDude's Orion pack, I submitted some recipes for building Orion's propulsion units off-world, meaning you can do it if you have enough EnrichedUranium on hand.)

[b0ss]

So all I need to do is change the recipes so that Ore can no longer be turned into LFO and just make it so that the ISRUs use a different resource to make fuel?

[DStaal]

6 hours ago, b0ss said:

So all I need to do is change the recipes so that Ore can no longer be turned into LFO and just make it so that the ISRUs use a different resource to make fuel?

For Ore -> LFO, it's a bit more complex - because it's not really centralized.  There's no recipe file used by KSP there - it's down to each ISRU.  So you would just have to patch each one of those, separately.

I was more talking about the other half of your equation - using the same ore to build ships using RocketParts.  That part can be changed much easier.

[b0ss]

Cool! Thanks for all your help

[zekew11]

I'm not always the most active modder, but if you want to check out coherent resource system in my signature feel free to do so. Currently fuel focused.