Russia announces a plan for Mars and Moon missions

[michal.don]

I just found out that Vladimir Putin announced a series of lunar and Mars missions - unmanned mission to Mars as soon as 2019 and manned missions later on, including search for water near lunar poles. English article here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/15/vladimir-putin-promises-launch-mars-mission-hunt-water-moon/

I found out in a Czech article, which I won't link here, since 99,9% of you wouldn't probably understand a word of it anyway

Does anyone have more detailed info on this?

Michal.don

[KSK]

I'm thinking the important words there are 'and manned missions later on'. Not that unmanned missions to Mars aren't impressive in their own right but they're not quite as attention-grabbing as a manned mission would be.

To answer the question - nope I don't have any more information on this!

[hoioh]

I was reading up on that in an article that was like, ehm, maybe nobody dared tell him that, like, ehm, well, there's no Mars launch window in 2019... Which is hilarious, so he's likely just bluffing on that one in order to "scare" the americans in launching first or something, which makes no sense. But there's a lot of planning for the 2020 launch window to Mars going on. Which is very exciting!

[sh1pman]

6 hours ago, michal.don said:

Vladimir Putin announced a series of lunar and Mars missions

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA

 

 

...

Sorry.

Seriously though. Don’t believe that guy. Russia has no launch vehicle for Mars mission, no hab module, no capsule, no SM for it, and no money to build it all. Never going to happen. Not in 40 years time for sure. It’s just a regular stupid bragging aimed at people who know literally nothing about the state the Russian space industry is in.

———

BTW, he said that 2019 was proposed for an unmanned Moon landing (Luna-25), not for Mars mission. Just google what he actually said. There was a translation bug it seems.

[PB666]

18 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Seriously though. Don’t believe that guy. Russia has no launch vehicle for Mars mission, no hab module, no capsule, no SM for it, and no money to build it all. Never going to happen. Not in 40 years time for sure. It’s just a regular stupid bragging aimed at people who know literally nothing about the state the Russian space industry is in.

———

BTW, he said that 2019 was proposed for an unmanned Moon landing (Luna-25), not for Mars mission. Just google what he actually said. There was a translation bug it seems.

Atomic Bears!!!

 

[sh1pman]

1 minute ago, PB666 said:

Atomic Bears!!!

 

Even atomic bears are not as ridiculous as Russian Mars mission. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheleznogorsk,_Krasnoyarsk_Krai

[Streetwind]

9 hours ago, sh1pman said:

Russia has no launch vehicle for Mars mission

Proton is perfectly capable of shooting unmanned missions to Moon and Mars. Heck, Soyuz is perfectly capable of doing the Moon, if you downsize enough. Remember, a former X-Prize competitor is still firmly planning on using Electron (a ~200kg lifter) for a lunar landing probably sometime next year.

Manned missions though? Yeah, no. Nobody has a vehicle capable of this yet.

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Streetwind

[sh1pman]

35 minutes ago, Streetwind said:

Proton is perfectly capable of shooting unmanned missions to Moon and Mars. Heck, Soyuz is perfectly capable of doing the Moon, if you downsize enough. Remember, a former X-Prize competitor is still firmly planning on using Electron (a ~200kg lifter) for a lunar landing probably sometime next year.

Manned missions though? Yeah, no. Nobody has a vehicle capable of this yet.

 

Sure, Proton + Briz can get a light probe to Mars. Manned mission though - not in our lifetime.

[MaxwellsDemon]

I'm all for Russia getting serious about getting back into the space exploration business.  The more, the merrier. 

(That said, I agree that Putin's statements are worth about the same as the paper they're written on, so I expect the ultimate result of this declaration to be about the same as President Bush's "Space Exploration Initiative" back in 1991 or 1992.)

I'm reminded of a passage in Robert A. Heinlein's Expanded Universe (1980) where he makes the point that, if one country doesn't take the lead in space, another one will... the line was something like, "You will be able to vacation on Mars someday.  But don't be surprised if the Japanese government charges you a hefty fee for the visa.  Because there is intelligent life in Tokyo."

Edited March 16, 2018 by MaxwellsDemon
typo correction

[PB666]

18 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

I'm all for Russia getting serious about getting back into the space exploration business.  The more, the merrier. 

(That said, I agree that Putin's statements are worth about the same as the paper they're written on, so I expect the ultimate result of this declaration to be about the same as President Bush's "Space Exploration Initiative" back in 1991 or 1992.)

I'm reminded of a passage in Robert A. Heinlein's Expanded Universe (1980) where he makes the point that, if one country doesn't take the lead in space, another one will... the line was something like, "You will be able to vacation on Mars someday.  But don't be surprised if the Japanese government charges you a hefty fee for the visa.  Because there is intelligent life in Tokyo."

I think what you mean is there is intelligent life is silicon valley, not necessarily on the Potomac.

 

[MaxwellsDemon]

Yeah, although at the time Heinlein was writing, private space companies were still pretty much science fiction.  (I think he'd be enjoying Elon Musk's Tesla immensely.)

[sh1pman]

1 hour ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

I'm all for Russia getting serious about getting back into the space exploration business.  The more, the merrier. 

(That said, I agree that Putin's statements are worth about the same as the paper they're written on, so I expect the ultimate result of this declaration to be about the same as President Bush's "Space Exploration Initiative" back in 1991 or 1992.)

I'm reminded of a passage in Robert A. Heinlein's Expanded Universe (1980) where he makes the point that, if one country doesn't take the lead in space, another one will... the line was something like, "You will be able to vacation on Mars someday.  But don't be surprised if the Japanese government charges you a hefty fee for the visa.  Because there is intelligent life in Tokyo."

Well, right now it's a downward spiral for Russian space industry. New projects have ~90% chance of being cancelled in 2-3 years time. Terrible management and quality control, corruption, laughable salaries and aging Soviet-era personnel. And on top of all that - lack of political will for space exploration. I won't be surprised if in a decade or two Russia  loses its access to space altogether.

Edited March 16, 2018 by sh1pman

[MaxwellsDemon]

Just now, sh1pman said:

I won't be surprised if in a decade or two Russia will lose its access to space altogether.

Hope not.  All political details aside, the Russian space program is quite an inspiring story.  I would be sorry to see it end.  

[sh1pman]

31 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

Hope not.  All political details aside, the Russian space program is quite an inspiring story.  I would be sorry to see it end.  

Soviet space program was an inspiring story, Russian one isn't. It's been recycling Soviet legacy since the dissolution of USSR, kinda like primitives digging up artifacts of a dead civilization. All the great things, like Buran shuttle, Energia rocket (up to 200t to low orbit, reusable boosters) and spirit of space exploration are gone. That's why I don't care much about Russian space program, and announcements like the one Putin did make me laugh.

Edited March 16, 2018 by sh1pman

[MaxwellsDemon]

I should have been clearer... when I said "Russian," I meant "Russian/Soviet/Russian," starting with Tsiolkovsky and including the whole sweep of everything after that-- not just post-1991.

[PB666]

58 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

Hope not.  All political details aside, the Russian space program is quite an inspiring story.  I would be sorry to see it end.  

The economy is in shambles, growth in legacy industries no specific plan to innovate. 

[MaxwellsDemon]

Regardless of current conditions.  Current conditions are never permanent.

[sh1pman]

11 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

Current conditions are never permanent.

Sure, it can always get worse. Like it's been getting worse for the last 27 years.

[sevenperforce]

A Progress docked with a Soyuz can manage a circumlunar manned mission, I believe. So that's ready immediately. In that sense they are further ahead than anyone else...though once D2 flies, it can do the same thing in a single launch on Falcon Heavy.

But, just like the US, Russia has no crew landing vehicle, much less a way to get it into lunar orbit or down to the lunar surface. So any talk of manned missions to the surface of the moon is nonsense.

[tater]

The Russians offered Bezos such a round the Moon tourist trip, as I recall. He decided not to pay retail and build his own

Mars is Russia's kite eating tree. I wish them luck.

[Canopus]

A Soyuz and Blok D launched on a Zenit. Although i never understand who would pay to fly on this non standard mission. It would involve a skip reentry and that hasn‘t really been mastered during Zond.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Canopus

[MaxwellsDemon]

3 hours ago, sh1pman said:

Sure, it can always get worse. Like it's been getting worse for the last 27 years.

Well, I'll hope not.

[DerekL1963]

10 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Heck, Soyuz is perfectly capable of doing the Moon, if you downsize enough.

For certain values of "capable".  Soyuz is pretty specialized as a LEO station taxi...  Can it survive the thermal environment of cislunar and lunar space unmodified?  It's standard flight duration (2-3 days to a station, 2-3 days back) is awfully close to that of "loop around the moon" mission - what are it's margins?

[sevenperforce]

7 minutes ago, DerekL1963 said:

For certain values of "capable".  Soyuz is pretty specialized as a LEO station taxi...  Can it survive the thermal environment of cislunar and lunar space unmodified?  It's standard flight duration (2-3 days to a station, 2-3 days back) is awfully close to that of "loop around the moon" mission - what are it's margins?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz-A

[Streetwind]

@sevenperforce - I meant that in the sense that you could take a Soyuz launch vehicle and have it send something to the Moon, not to revive the manned Soyuz spacecraft Moon flight idea.

When are the Russians finally bringing Federatsiya online, again? Having a spacecraft that's not named the same as a launch system is decades overdue!