KAS - Connector Port Link Option

[i_like_kerbals]

What exactly is going on in this image...

 

i walked up to an empty connector port and selected link... is this a physical tether or is this a graphic representation of some kid of wireless link? It turns green when im close and red when im far... what is going on??

[Nils277]

This represents the link you can create from one connector port to another one. E.g. you can connect two crafts with this. It points towards the Kerbal when you activate it in the first port and disppears when you select the port to connect to. See it like a fireman holding a hose.

The hose is green when you can connect to another port and red otherwise (e.g. when you are too far away from the first port)

[i_like_kerbals]

11 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

This represents the link you can create from one connector port to another one. E.g. you can connect two crafts with this. It points towards the Kerbal when you activate it in the first port and disppears when you select the port to connect to. See it like a fireman holding a hose.

The hose is green when you can connect to another port and red otherwise (e.g. when you are too far away from the first port)

ahhh makes sense, I did try to google search the question and went through the KAS wiki on git but it wasn't really covered, thanks for clearing it up

11 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

 

if you dont mind me asking, what is the difference between plug docked vs undocked... again im googling "cc-r2 connector port plug dock undocked" and the links are regarding other issues

Edited April 3, 2018 by i_like_kerbals

[Nils277]

Hmm, i don't really know what plug docked mean. Seems the be a newer feature of KAS.

Judging from the name 'plug docked' might mean that they are connected and form a single vessel after connecting. Undocked would mean that the separate from each other and are unique vessels again. Would have to look that up when i get home from work in ~9 hours. Unless someone more qualified can answer that. 

[i_like_kerbals]

3 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

Hmm, i don't really know what plug docked mean. Seems the be a newer feature of KAS.

Judging from the name 'plug docked' might mean that they are connected and form a single vessel after connecting. Undocked would mean that the separate from each other and are unique vessels again. Would have to look that up when i get home from work in ~9 hours. Unless someone more qualified can answer that. 

yeah i will try to dig around and post if i come across something, perhaps it allows for different access, maybe one is just a tether and docked allows resource transfer??

[artwhaley]

3 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

Judging from the name 'plug docked' might mean that they are connected and form a single vessel after connecting. Undocked would mean that the separate from each other and are unique vessels again. Would have to look that up when i get home from work in ~9 hours. Unless someone more qualified can answer that. 

That's correct!   Plug docked makes them into one vessel - you can move resources (and kerbals... somehow) via that pipe and have full control of all the parts together -  engines from 'both craft' will ignite together if you hit the gas.  

Plug undocked creates a physical only connection.  You can't transfer stuff or access the part's right click menus, and firing engines will only affect the current craft...  dragging the other around by the connection, but not controlling it.

[i_like_kerbals]

i just took this image and chose undocked...

judging by the last post, it appears the mod cant tell if you are docked and asks you use the honor system... i just do it the honest way because i prefer a challenge, im not trying to transfer kerbals or resources via magic rope

[Gargamel]

37 minutes ago, i_like_kerbals said:

judging by the last post, it appears the mod cant tell if you are docked and asks you use the honor system..

Not exactly.  It's an option on how you want to treat the connecting tether.  If you are docked, the two vessels are treated as one, and you can transfer resources and crew between them easily.  Undocked, it just functions as a tether. 

The Docked version is frequently used for surface bases, as it can be very difficult at times to get docking ports aligned on wheeled vehicles. 

So it's not the honor system, you are telling the mod how you want it to be treated, you can think of the connecting hose as one long weird shaped docking port.

[i_like_kerbals]

7 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Not exactly.  It's an option on how you want to treat the connecting tether.  If you are docked, the two vessels are treated as one, and you can transfer resources and crew between them easily.  Undocked, it just functions as a tether. 

The Docked version is frequently used for surface bases, as it can be very difficult at times to get docking ports aligned on wheeled vehicles. 

So it's not the honor system, you are telling the mod how you want it to be treated, you can think of the connecting hose as one long weird shaped docking port.

Yeah I guess after thinking about it, it does make sense to be able to allow the ship connected to be controlled as one or just let them be physically connected... I guess the issue with the mod and what is misleading is that it allows me to select docked, when they are not docked. Shouldn't the mod's script detect if the crafts are docked and then if docked to give me the two options? if the vessels are undocked i shouldnt even get the docked option, it's a nice feature but implemented in a way that is misleading... if they are undocked under no circumstances should kerbal transfer be available but i can see the rope/pipe/hose used to transfer resources (if you think of it as a hose) ... it seems to be multi purpose... hose/tether

Edited April 3, 2018 by i_like_kerbals

[Gargamel]

14 hours ago, i_like_kerbals said:

when they are not docked.

What defines docking?  Using docking ports?   What about the Claw?  I consider that docked. 

Real life ships do something very similar.  The USN has a whole class of ships that are intended to refuel and resupply the combat fleet while underway.  They transfer fuel and other resources between the two ships, and can and have transferred crew members. 

In KSP, to transfer resources, the game has to think they are docked, so this is the way the mod has to work.   And I think actually docking two craft is far easier than getting the, close together, zero'ing the velocities perfectly, and then performing a complicated EVA without accidentally bumping one ship into the other. 

[i_like_kerbals]

8 hours ago, Gargamel said:

What defines docking?  Using docking ports?   What about the Claw?  I consider that docked. 

Real life ships do something very similar.  The USN has a whole class of ships that are intended to refuel and resupply the combat fleet while underway.  They transfer fuel and other resources between the two ships, and can and have transferred crew members. 

In KSP, to transfer resources, the game has to think they are docked, so this is the way the mod has to work.   And I think actually docking two craft is far easier than getting the, close together, zero'ing the velocities perfectly, and then performing a complicated EVA without accidentally bumping one ship into the other. 

i thought that was an ingame screenshot for a second haha... but yeah I get the game engine works a certain way so he has to trick it to allow the resource transfer which then allows for kerbal transfer as it is vanilla behavior and mods dont remove vanilla behavior... still the mod can be designed in a more intuitive way... i have not modded ksp before but i know you can create your own GUIs so he should have coded his own resource transfer gui which keeps the ship undocked and then he can set the resource values in the two ships through the GUI... then it doesnt use the vanilla docked behavior... i get it though, the way he did it was quicker to accomplish but it allows for kerbal transfer exploit... i mean it is always up to you to exploit that so even though I could i dont and when connected i only will transfer the resources that would make sense to be pumped through a hose like all the TACS supplies and fuel but not kerbals

Edited April 4, 2018 by i_like_kerbals

[artwhaley]

The same problem exists in the stock game - you can join two command pods by an open truss or docking bay, or radial decoupler and still transfer crew across that 'void.'  So it's not unique to KAS that it's possible to move a kerbal through a connection that isn't realistically 'passable.'  That's what the Connected Living Spaces mod is designed for - it checks to make sure you're only transferring kerbals through passable connections.    So I wouldn't consider spending hours hacking together a custom resource transfer system to be a good use of time.   I'd much rather that time go into adding more actual features and letting people decide if they want to 'cheat' or not!   

[i_like_kerbals]

33 minutes ago, artwhaley said:

The same problem exists in the stock game - you can join two command pods by an open truss or docking bay, or radial decoupler and still transfer crew across that 'void.'  So it's not unique to KAS that it's possible to move a kerbal through a connection that isn't realistically 'passable.'  That's what the Connected Living Spaces mod is designed for - it checks to make sure you're only transferring kerbals through passable connections.    So I wouldn't consider spending hours hacking together a custom resource transfer system to be a good use of time.   I'd much rather that time go into adding more actual features and letting people decide if they want to 'cheat' or not!   

sounds like I need to be using that connected living spaces mod. I tend to favor realism in games when it is practical, it still needs to be a game and fun but i like the challenges realism presents when it works with the game engine. I think letting people decide how they want to play is good too, i prefer to just eva them to the actual door if the ships arent technically docked... that mod should handle it I guess so I dont consciously have to remind myself not to cheat. 

[artwhaley]

I just feel like expecting more realism from a mod than you get from the stock game is a little unreasonable!   Like I said - the game has no problem with you transferring a kerbal through a radial decoupler or piece of open air truss...  so I don't know why you'd complain about a mod author not holding themself to a stricter standard.  

The language -'plug docked' isn't meant to imply that you've used a passable docking port.  It's just the language that the game engine uses for 'joined the part trees to create one vessel.'

But I think connected living spaces would handle both for you - fixing stock and mods!   

[i_like_kerbals]

well you can add realism to a game through modding so not sure what you meant. Many mods are made to make something in a game more realistic like when deadly re entry was a mod. I have made mods for games before so I know what you mean when a game's vanilla behavior can't be changed. A mod could check for when you perform a vanilla behavior that you dont like and act appropriately. I dont know what you can access in the api as i never modded for ksp but changing vanilla behavior is possible by working around it. Which I guess is essentially what the living spaces mod does since you said it fixes that vanilla behavior. I doubt he is preventing the vanilla behavior but rather correcting it.

So expecting realism from a mod is not unreasonable, it depends how clever you are when it comes to coding.

[artwhaley]

I was probably just being a little over sensitive.   I just wanted to make the point that the mod "should do" whatever the author wants it to do.  If you'd like it to do something differently, the best course of action is to either politely suggest a new feature, worded as a request, not a critique, or to fork it and make your own version, if the license allows!  

There's no reason a mod can't add realism, if that's what the author wants from it.  You're absolutely right - connected living spaces does just what you're suggesting, fixes the stock behavior by blocking kerbal transfers without a valid path through the ship.  If someone wants that fixed, they can grab that mod, regardless of whether or not they have KAS installed.   KAS, in fact, has already split into KAS and KIS, because the author wanted it to be one mod that fixes one need, so that players can mix and match it with different mods that do different things.

 But EXPECTING anything from a mod is the wrong attitude and choice of language and it burns our mod authors out, which is why I'm quick to jump to their defense when someone selects wording like that.  I may have misread the connotation - I just heard a bit of entitlement to the mod working the way you wanted.

  And I assure you... KAS and KospY are already sufficiently clever...  but feel free to fork and clever it on up if you need to!  The license allows.

[i_like_kerbals]

the mod should not do what the author wants if the author is not a logical person

 

it should work intuitively and in a logical way.

[Dman979]

Guys, personal attacks are not allowed here. Knock it off.

[artwhaley]

3 hours ago, i_like_kerbals said:

the mod should not do what the author wants if the author is not a logical person

 

it should work intuitively and in a logical way.

What you consider logical and what a mod maker considers logical might be different.   And in the case of a mod - the only opinion that matters is the author's.  Mod makers don't owe you anything.   And I wouldn't expect much from them, so long as you keep this attitude.  Good luck.  

[Gargamel]

 

5 hours ago, i_like_kerbals said:

the mod should not do what the author wants if the author is not a logical person

 

it should work intuitively and in a logical way.

I find it interesting you are blaming a lack of features, features you don't agree with, and implementations you don't like in a mod as a failure.

It's what the mod maker intended the mod to be.  If they didn't like it, they would have changed it.

But limiting yourself to the constraints placed on you by a mod is even more interesting.   You don't have to follow them.   You can add your own limitations.  Play the game as you see fit.  Anything else shows a lack of initiative and imagination.