Knock Minmus out of orbit! Challenge...

[Rasseru]

Challenge: Deliver fuel and engines to Minmus. So KSP could change the orbit of the moon.

Rules:

* Must create a lander to deliver fuel and engines.

* Must have unused fuel tanks after landing on surface.

* The engine must be turned to thrust into space. Not the surface.

* Place the deliver fuel and engines in their own stage.

* Do not use C7 Fuel Tanks or Solid Fuel Booster for deliver fuel and engines.

* Do not use Mod Engines or Fuel Tanks.

* No Fuel Transfer with deliver fuel tanks.

* No Spawning on Minmus or it's orbit.

Scoring

Only the delivered fuel and engines may count.

Each 200 fuel tank is worth One point.

Each 400 fuel tank is worth Two points.

Each 1600 fuel tank is worth Three points.

Each 3200 fuel tank is worth Four points.

Each 5 thrust on a engine is worth One point. (Example: Engine with 20 thrust is Four points.)

Bonus (optional)

Thrust delivered engines on the surface without crashing.

Engines below 25% Thrust worth Ten points.

Engines above 25% Thrust worth Twenty points.

Engines above 50% Thrust worth Thirty points.

Engines above 75% Thrust worth Forty points.

Engines at 100% Thrust worth Fifty points.

Claiming Challenge

Take pictures or video of your challenge and link it to the topic... No attach files or downloads.

All Fuel Tanks and Engines must be seen in the pictures. If you can't have it all in one picture? Take another picture.

Show and tell what Stage these Engines and Fuel Tanks are on.

* Give your total score in your post.

* Make sure your points can be visually counted in the picture or video. You may lose points if they can't be seen.

** Bonus **

Show a picture of engine running and thrust gauge visible. To earn the Bonus Leaderboard ranking.

Leaderboard

1. Soralin S: 1701

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Bonus

1. Soralin S: 1751 (50)

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Good luck!

Edited August 26, 2012 by Rasseru

[chillman1212]

Is this even possible?

[Rasseru]

Is this even possible?

Delivering fuel and engines to Minmus. Yes.

Changing the orbit of the moon. No

[chillman1212]

Oh true, never thought about that. Well i would try doing this but im terrible at minmus landings

[togfox]

It's been done before so no reason why you can't do it again.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/10798-Knock-Minmus-out-of-its-orbit?highlight=KNOCK+minmus+orbit

[Rasseru]

It's been done before so no reason why you can't do it again.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/10798-Knock-Minmus-out-of-its-orbit?highlight=KNOCK+minmus+orbit

You can't move Minmus. That's my little pun.

I like to see players with spacecrafts, that looks like they could move Minmus.

[Tosh]

Oh no, not this again no knocking Minmus anywhere

Eh wait... it's just a fuel/engine delivery challenge, yep? Well, okay then

[Boex]

You made a bit of an exploitable error in your scoring system -

Each 200 fuel tank is worth One point.

Each 400 fuel tank is worth Two points.

Each 1600 fuel tank is worth Three points.

Each 3200 fuel tank is worth Four points.

x1 1600 litre fuel tank = x4 400 litre fuel tanks...So you could get 8 points using x4 400 litre fuel tanks for the same mass x1 1600 fuel tank for 3 points...?

[Rasseru]

You made a bit of an exploitable error in your scoring system -

Each 200 fuel tank is worth One point.

Each 400 fuel tank is worth Two points.

Each 1600 fuel tank is worth Three points.

Each 3200 fuel tank is worth Four points.

x1 1600 litre fuel tank = x4 400 litre fuel tanks...So you could get 8 points using x4 400 litre fuel tanks for the same mass x1 1600 fuel tank for 3 points...?

I know it sounds odd. But that's no error. The size and shape may cause problems... If you using more smaller tanks together? This may use more space parts and struts to stable the craft. Small parts may break if a large engine place on it too. This is more about big parts vs small parts in design.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Rasseru

[Suzaku]

When multiplayer comes out, this is going to be one of the first things I'm going to try to do with other players.

[CruelScientist]

I could Try this But, I will end up with about 200 fuel tanks floating everywhere.

[OdinYggd]

I have a feeling the only sensible way to make this landing is to bring it in close then flip over and perform an RCS powered landing, since there is no vanilla way to get a backwards engine thrust required to make an engine landing upside-down.

I'll see what I can do though, since I still have a bunch of boosters tested to deliver over 100 tons of rocket to minimus orbit. Would not take much to repurpose the upper stage of such a craft for this.

[Rasseru]

I could Try this But, I will end up with about 200 fuel tanks floating everywhere.

Sounds like you need some training in your staging systems. Doing a challenges give you some training. I won't give up.

I have a feeling the only sensible way to make this landing is to bring it in close then flip over and perform an RCS powered landing, since there is no vanilla way to get a backwards engine thrust required to make an engine landing upside-down.

I'll see what I can do though, since I still have a bunch of boosters tested to deliver over 100 tons of rocket to minimus orbit. Would not take much to repurpose the upper stage of such a craft for this.

You flip the engines by using the w,a,s and d in the VAB. The deliver engine should be a new set. But, you can do the flip over and perform an RCS powered landing if your engines are someplace else. Also, if your flight engines are the deliver engine too? Any fuel taken from deliver fuel tanks would not count in points.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Rasseru

[Soralin]

But, you can do the flip over and perform an RCS powered landing if your engines are someplace else. Also, if your flight engines are the deliver engine too? Any fuel taken from deliver fuel tanks would not count in points.

Hmm, I should try using flight engines, maybe I can get more of them over there that way. Even if the fuel doesn't count, the engines seem to be really overweighted in your scoring system.

But I suppose this works:

So:

1600 L fuel tank(unused until the end) - 3 points

1200 power engine(unused until the end) - 240 points (engines seem really high compared to fuel here)

243 points x 7 of each = 1701 points

100% thrust - 50 point bonus

Total: 1751

I got a little bounce from the landing struts springing back when the engines burned out.

Our vehicle of choice to deliver the payload:

It moves fuel towards the center rockets, and drops off stacks 2 at a time as it gets empty:

Although I really need to redesign it, it's too easy for a separating rocket to hit other rockets and damage or destroy them, I got sort of lucky on my test flight, I had a bunch of other tries where something would blow up, or where a center stack would take damage but not be destroyed, only to later buckle under the load of the engine. Part of the design was simply that I had the capsule in the middle there, I was thinking of moving it to the top of one of those landing rockets, and balancing it out with an SAS on the other side, probably should have gone with that, although it's a pain to try moving a capsule somewhere else with the building interface.

Still a good amount of fuel left in those.

Boosters hitting the ground.

Touchdown.

I cut the fuel supply off for these, since if I detach them they tend to get caught up in the struts, I had them directly attached before, since I didn't need to remove them, but they could potentially draw fuel from the main tanks if I left them like that, and per the challenge I wanted to avoid any of that.

[Rasseru]

1600 L fuel tank(unused until the end) - 3 points

1200 power engine(unused until the end) - 240 points (engines seem really high compared to fuel here)

243 points x 7 of each = 1701 points

100% thrust - 50 point bonus

I think your fuel score is higher than 3 points. Do you have "7" 1600 L fuel tanks(unused until the end)?

[Soralin]

I think your fuel score is higher than 3 points. Do you have "7" 1600 L fuel tanks(unused until the end)?

yeah, I multiplied the whole thing by 7, 3 per tank, 240 per engine, 243 for each of the 7 sections there.

Or, 3x7=21 for the fuel, and 240x7=1680 for the engines.

The engines are 1200 power each, 8400 power total.

1 point per 5 power does seem like a bit much when you put it next to the fuel amounts like that. Even at 1 point per 50 power, engines would still give quite a bit more points per unit of mass than fuel.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Soralin

[TheCardinal]

@Rasseru - This challenge is comparable to a scenario i'm still wishing to complete one day, namely altering the orbit of a small asteroid/comet with a landing contraption like the one in the challenge. (So i like it and will certainly try this challenge out soon).

Do you realise that you've left a loophole open in the rules? You have't mentioned that using mods like the gravityspa, the instant-orbit, hyperjump and the orbital construction mod are is not allowed. The same applies to manually modifying the persistance file.

As such i would suggest adding a rule mentioning that and a rule mentioning that in doubt your judgement will be final.

Frankly, i don't like the way the score is calculated now. It doesn't take effectiveness of the delivered fuel and engines into account.

Example:

- A lander with one 200 tank connected to six 1200 engines would score 1441 points (excluding bonus).

- A lander with one 200 tank connected to one 1200 engine would score only 241 points (excluding bonus).

Both landers have exactly the same effect.

In a way this reduces this challenge to a "delivered weight" challenge which is a pity considering the scenario.

Personally i would have chosen for awarded points per x units of delivered 'impulse' (not sure if that is the correct term for engine thrust times fuel amount devided by consumption rate).

[Rasseru]

yeah, I multiplied the whole thing by 7, 3 per tank, 240 per engine, 243 for each of the 7 sections there.

Or, 3x7=21 for the fuel, and 240x7=1680 for the engines.

The engines are 1200 power each, 8400 power total.

1 point per 5 power does seem like a bit much when you put it next to the fuel amounts like that. Even at 1 point per 50 power, engines would still give quite a bit more points per unit of mass than fuel.

I tried to make the scoring simple. Maybe it still complex? I may have to rethink scoring?

I would know more about this issue till more people complete the challenge

@Rasseru - This challenge is comparable to a scenario i'm still wishing to complete one day, namely altering the orbit of a small asteroid/comet with a landing contraption like the one in the challenge. (So i like it and will certainly try this challenge out soon).

Do you realise that you've left a loophole open in the rules? You have't mentioned that using mods like the gravityspa, the instant-orbit, hyperjump and the orbital construction mod are is not allowed. The same applies to manually modifying the persistance file.

As such i would suggest adding a rule mentioning that and a rule mentioning that in doubt your judgement will be final.

Frankly, i don't like the way the score is calculated now. It doesn't take effectiveness of the delivered fuel and engines into account.

Example:

- A lander with one 200 tank connected to six 1200 engines would score 1441 points (excluding bonus).

- A lander with one 200 tank connected to one 1200 engine would score only 241 points (excluding bonus).

Both landers have exactly the same effect.

In a way this reduces this challenge to a "delivered weight" challenge which is a pity considering the scenario.

Personally i would have chosen for awarded points per x units of delivered 'impulse' (not sure if that is the correct term for engine thrust times fuel amount devided by consumption rate).

Mods are tricky... That why, I said no Mod Engines and Fuel tanks.

Score will be rethink and hopefully not change any ones future submitting scores.

[TheCardinal]

Mods are tricky... That why, I said no Mod Engines and Fuel tanks.

Strictly speaking, the four mentioned mods are neither, so are allowed by the current rules.

[Rasseru]

Strictly speaking, the four mentioned mods are neither, so are allowed by the current rules.

Yes, Mods are allow if don't conflict with current rules.

[TheCardinal]

Yes, Mods are allow if don't conflict with current rules.

In that case i won't participate with your challenge as it is pointless. Users who would use the named mods (or by editing the persistence file) are allowed to do so under the current rules. Thus, the beautiful scenario is reduced to "who can design the largest craft with the most engines". There's no need to launch it with rockets from Kerbin, just use f.i. the instant-orbit mod to put it instantly in orbit and fly it to Minmus. Those users would have such an advantage that there's no sense in competing.

[CruelScientist]

Well, after first attempting this challenge i ended up with 4 stranded kerbonauts, 1 in minmus and the other 3 are currently in orbit around kerbol.

[Rasseru]

Well, after first attempting this challenge i ended up with 4 stranded kerbonauts, 1 in minmus and the other 3 are currently in orbit around kerbol.

Stranded? You should have lots of fuel to return home.

[MissStabby]

Did you know that the dev's from Adeline software did this about 15 years ago?

skip to 1:20 for the part with minmus!

[CruelScientist]

Actually that is the problem i have a about a half a tank of fuel with the one on minmus but as i attempted to land unfortunate events Occurred xD most of the tanks got dislodged i guess you could say as i landed and the main engine de-attached when i tried to get the craft pointing up wards