Can't get to the Moon, despite flying high and having a powerful rocket

[Jeine092]

Hi everyone.

I've decided to try again, and I want to fly to the Moon, or whatever it's called in the game. I built a powerful rocket, but I couldn't get there, even if I flew high enough to reach it and even go above it. Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-V_3SwY0Ao&feature=youtu.be

Where's my mistake? Do I need to build even more powerful rocket?

[Cheif Operations Director]

43 minutes ago, Jeine092 said:

Hi everyone.

I've decided to try again, and I want to fly to the Moon, or whatever it's called in the game. I built a powerful rocket, but I couldn't get there, even if I flew high enough to reach it and even go above it. Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-V_3SwY0Ao&feature=youtu.be

Where's my mistake? Do I need to build even more powerful rocket?

Hello

1. Your orbital mechanics are WRONG entirely

2. That rocket is not powerful enough

Go step by step, do not get to much into the math just do it

 

[Xd the great]

I will suggest learning how to do a hofman transfer. 

Assuming you are using ksp v 1.4.5, use manouver nodes in map mode to see your predicted path.

[Reactordrone]

That rocket will allow you to do a flyby mission with the right flight path but you'll need more delta-v to get into orbit or land. Remember to aim at where the Mun will be rather than where it is and if you go past the leading side of the Mun rather than the trailing side you should be able to set up a free return trajectory. If you're in career mode you'll have to get the mission control and tracking station upgraded to make sure you have access to flight planning so that you can see where you're heading as you pass through the different sphere's of influence.

[Jeine092]

12 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Hello

1. Your orbital mechanics are WRONG entirely

2. That rocket is not powerful enough

Go step by step, do not get to much into the math just do it

 

I'm sorry, but that's way beyond my comprehension. Too complex. I don't understand a half of things he does, so I can't replicate them.

 

10 hours ago, Xd the great said:

I will suggest learning how to do a hofman transfer. 

Assuming you are using ksp v 1.4.5, use manouver nodes in map mode to see your predicted path.

I use 1.3 version, because 1.4 is spyware.

 

8 hours ago, Reactordrone said:

That rocket will allow you to do a flyby mission with the right flight path but you'll need more delta-v to get into orbit or land. Remember to aim at where the Mun will be rather than where it is and if you go past the leading side of the Mun rather than the trailing side you should be able to set up a free return trajectory. If you're in career mode you'll have to get the mission control and tracking station upgraded to make sure you have access to flight planning so that you can see where you're heading as you pass through the different sphere's of influence.

I'm in science mode and I don't know how to aim.

[Dafni]

Just now, Jeine092 said:

 

 

I use 1.3 version, because 1.4 is spyware.

 

 

Not anymore, 1.4.5 is clean now.

[Harry Rhodan]

Do you actually know how to go to orbit by now? If you don't understand parts of the tutorials ask people how those parts work.

[Jeine092]

22 minutes ago, Dafni said:

Not anymore, 1.4.5 is clean now.

Thanks, but I'd rather not risk. If it works, don't touch it.

 

12 minutes ago, Harry Rhodan said:

Do you actually know how to go to orbit by now? If you don't understand parts of the tutorials ask people how those parts work.

I can go high enough to see the sun. That's all I know.

[Cheif Operations Director]

6 minutes ago, Jeine092 said:

Thanks, but I'd rather not risk. If it works, don't touch it.

 

I can go high enough to see the sun. That's all I know.

You need to understand orbital mechanics 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_8TO4Ag0E

32 minutes ago, Dafni said:

Not anymore, 1.4.5 is clean now.

Did they change the EULA

@Jeine092 like I said do not get bogged down in the swamp of the math. Rewatch the tutorial. 

Here is how to do it

1. Launch to your rocket and get an Apoapsis of 90,000 M

2. Burn Prograde AT Apoapsis! Not before not after AT. You should have a semi circular orbit make sure your periapsis is above 70,000 M

now watch the tutorial I posted again skip until 3:50

[Jeine092]

19 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

You need to understand orbital mechanics 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_8TO4Ag0E

Did they change the EULA

@Jeine092 like I said do not get bogged down in the swamp of the math. Rewatch the tutorial. 

Here is how to do it

1. Launch to your rocket and get an Apoapsis of 90,000 M

2. Burn Prograde AT Apoapsis! Not before not after AT. You should have a semi circular orbit make sure your periapsis is above 70,000 M

now watch the tutorial I posted again skip until 3:50

I'm terribly sorry, but the only thing I understood from your explanation was: "launch your rocket"...

[Cavscout74]

Some basic definitions to help understand:  (KSP wiki has more & defines them better than I can)

Apoapsis:  The high point of an orbit.  For Kerbin, it must be above 70 km to be clear of the Kerbin's atmosphere.

Periapsis:  The low point of an orbit.  It also must be above 70 km to be clear of the atmosphere.

Sphere of Influence (SoI): The space around a planet/moon/etc where it is the primary gravitational influence. 

Prograde:   The direction of your orbit.  Marked by the symbol on your nav ball in game. 

Retrograde: The opposite directiion of your orbit. Marked by the symbol.

 

So to launch a rocket, you want to keep going till your Apoapsis (Ap) gets above 70 km & cut off your throttle.  You can check in map view.  Then when you're close to Ap, you point prograde & thrust again until your Periapsis (Pe) is also above 70km.  Then you're in orbit.  No need to get really high - between 70-80 km is all you need. From there you can create a maneuver node in map view & pull the prograde marker  of the nodeuntil the projected orbit gets to Mun's orbit, then move the location of the node on your orbital path until the projected orbit changes to show it reaching Mun's sphere of influence.

 

[Jeine092]

2 minutes ago, Cavscout74 said:

Some basic definitions to help understand:  (KSP wiki has more & defines them better than I can)

Apoapsis:  The high point of an orbit.  For Kerbin, it must be above 70 km to be clear of the Kerbin's atmosphere.

Periapsis:  The low point of an orbit.  It also must be above 70 km to be clear of the atmosphere.

Sphere of Influence (SoI): The space around a planet/moon/etc where it is the primary gravitational influence. 

Prograde:   The direction of your orbit.  Marked by the symbol on your nav ball in game. 

Retrograde: The opposite directiion of your orbit. Marked by the symbol.

 

So to launch a rocket, you want to keep going till your Apoapsis (Ap) gets above 70 km & cut off your throttle.  You can check in map view.  Then when you're close to Ap, you point prograde & thrust again until your Periapsis (Pe) is also above 70km.  Then you're in orbit.  No need to get really high - between 70-80 km is all you need. From there you can create a maneuver node in map view & pull the prograde marker  of the nodeuntil the projected orbit gets to Mun's orbit, then move the location of the node on your orbital path until the projected orbit changes to show it reaching Mun's sphere of influence.

 

Yeah, going to the moon is definitely not for me. Way too complicated. Is there any way to push a button and see the whole flight until I'm on the moon? Then, I could get all science stuff, push another button and safely return back?

[Cheif Operations Director]

3 minutes ago, Jeine092 said:

Yeah, going to the moon is definitely not for me. Way too complicated. Is there any way to push a button and see the whole flight until I'm on the moon? Then, I could get all science stuff, push another button and safely return back?

No

4 minutes ago, Jeine092 said:

Yeah, going to the moon is definitely not for me. Way too complicated. Is there any way to push a button and see the whole flight until I'm on the moon? Then, I could get all science stuff, push another button and safely return back?

Watch the tutorial for getting to orbit

[Jeine092]

Just now, Cheif Operations Director said:

No

Sorry for wasting your time... I wish I just asked about this button straight up, so time won't be wasted...

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Jeine092 said:

Sorry for wasting your time... I wish I just asked about this button straight up, so time won't be wasted...

If you want a game that is not real orbital mechanics their is space agency for the phone

Kerbal is fun you just need to learn it

[Dafni]

Ya, keep at it. It is not easy, but when you finally make it it will be one of the most rewarding feelings a game will ever give you.

Believe me, it is totally worth it.

The realism that the game brings is nicely measured out IMO, not too easy but not quite as hard as in real life. And every step of the way makes perfect sense once the basic of orbital mechanics clicks in your head.

[Ultimate Steve]

@Jeine092

Judging by the previous posts you're rather confused by the whole orbital mechanics thing. No need to worry, that's perfectly natural, it is rocket science after all! I'll try to explain it with all the technical terms if I can, at least to orbit.

 

Basically, how to get into orbit the inefficient but understandable way:

1. Go straight up until your highest point is above 70 kilometers, preferably higher (100km). Turn off your engines.

2. Near your highest point turn over so you're facing sideways (the place where brown and blue meet on the navigation ball).

3. Fire your engines again, sideways, until your speedometer reaches about 2300 meters per second. If you did this at the right time and had enough fuel to get going that fast then in map mode you should see an ellipse instead of an arc for your flight path. This means you are in orbit, and if you are in orbit you should have a highest and lowest point.

 

Expanding on that, here's some medium level stuff:

 

An interesting visualization that shows this concept is something called Newton's Cannonball.

Imagine your ship is the cannonball and the location of the cannon is your highest point is where you start firing your engines sideways from. If you don't accelerate enough you'll fall back to the planet (A and B), but if you accelerate enough the gravity of the planet will pull you down at the exact same rate that the surface curves away from you and that leads to a perfectly circular orbit (C).

Due to the fact that gravity decreases with distance you can get non-circular orbits, which are called ellipses (D). If you go too fast you'll escape the planet's gravity entirely, called an escape trajectory. The shape this makes is called a hyperbola (E) but the names aren't that important.

 

More medium level stuff and terms:

 

The lowest point of your orbit is called the periapsis. The highest point is called the Apoapsis. If you increase your horizontal velocity at one, the other will increase. If you decrease your velocity at one, the other will decrease.

Prograde is the direction you are currently travelling. Point this way to increase your speed/velocity. The prograde symbol on the navball looks like this: . The opposite of prograde is retrograde, the opposite of the direction you are going. point that way to decrease your velocity. It looks like this: . There are several other symbols but these are the most important ones and the only ones you need to know for now.

 

Medium level orbits:

So if you've tried to orbit the beginner way and succeeded, then here is a somewhat more advanced way. Instead of waiting until your highest point and burning sideways, it's more efficient (but more difficult to grasp) to slowly turn over on the way up so you continuously build up horizontal velocity. This is more efficient because as you accelerate sideways more you don't have to accelerate upwards as much because the surface curves away from you. This isn't really that important though and that bit might have gone over your head.

It is also more efficient to launch into an orbit to the East, which is the 90 degree marking on your navball, because the planet is already rotating in that direction, giving you a little boost. The Mun also orbits in that direction so if you want to go to the Mun you should probably put yourself into this sort of orbit.

 

So if this also goes over your head let me know, but if you can understand some of it please do let me know. Once you get this it's easier to get everything else. In fact once you get this, it's really only one more step to encountering the Mun, and two more steps after that to landing on it.

So please let me know what you do get or don't get or if I have to explain it in a simpler way - I'm here to help!

[Jeine092]

21 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

@Jeine092

Judging by the previous posts you're rather confused by the whole orbital mechanics thing. No need to worry, that's perfectly natural, it is rocket science after all! I'll try to explain it with all the technical terms if I can, at least to orbit.

 

Basically, how to get into orbit the inefficient but understandable way:

1. Go straight up until your highest point is above 70 kilometers, preferably higher (100km). Turn off your engines.

2. Near your highest point turn over so you're facing sideways (the place where brown and blue meet on the navigation ball).

3. Fire your engines again, sideways, until your speedometer reaches about 2300 meters per second. If you did this at the right time and had enough fuel to get going that fast then in map mode you should see an ellipse instead of an arc for your flight path. This means you are in orbit, and if you are in orbit you should have a highest and lowest point.

 

Expanding on that, here's some medium level stuff:

 

An interesting visualization that shows this concept is something called Newton's Cannonball.

Imagine your ship is the cannonball and the location of the cannon is your highest point is where you start firing your engines sideways from. If you don't accelerate enough you'll fall back to the planet (A and B), but if you accelerate enough the gravity of the planet will pull you down at the exact same rate that the surface curves away from you and that leads to a perfectly circular orbit (C).

Due to the fact that gravity decreases with distance you can get non-circular orbits, which are called ellipses (D). If you go too fast you'll escape the planet's gravity entirely, called an escape trajectory. The shape this makes is called a hyperbola (E) but the names aren't that important.

 

More medium level stuff and terms:

 

The lowest point of your orbit is called the periapsis. The highest point is called the Apoapsis. If you increase your horizontal velocity at one, the other will increase. If you decrease your velocity at one, the other will decrease.

Prograde is the direction you are currently travelling. Point this way to increase your speed/velocity. The prograde symbol on the navball looks like this: . The opposite of prograde is retrograde, the opposite of the direction you are going. point that way to decrease your velocity. It looks like this: . There are several other symbols but these are the most important ones and the only ones you need to know for now.

 

Medium level orbits:

So if you've tried to orbit the beginner way and succeeded, then here is a somewhat more advanced way. Instead of waiting until your highest point and burning sideways, it's more efficient (but more difficult to grasp) to slowly turn over on the way up so you continuously build up horizontal velocity. This is more efficient because as you accelerate sideways more you don't have to accelerate upwards as much because the surface curves away from you. This isn't really that important though and that bit might have gone over your head.

It is also more efficient to launch into an orbit to the East, which is the 90 degree marking on your navball, because the planet is already rotating in that direction, giving you a little boost. The Mun also orbits in that direction so if you want to go to the Mun you should probably put yourself into this sort of orbit.

 

So if this also goes over your head let me know, but if you can understand some of it please do let me know. Once you get this it's easier to get everything else. In fact once you get this, it's really only one more step to encountering the Mun, and two more steps after that to landing on it.

So please let me know what you do get or don't get or if I have to explain it in a simpler way - I'm here to help!

First of all, thank you for such big post.

I want to apologize for being so dense. It's not out of malice or intent, it just is. I'm not happy myself.

Now to your post.

I don't know how to turn off the engines. I only know how to make thrust stronger or weaker, and it doesn't work most of the time for some reason.

Each time I try to control the ship, it goes all over the place. I can't make it go to the direction I need.

Whatver you wrote further, I can't understand at all. I'm really sorry, like I said, it's not out of malice or ill intent.

[Ultimate Steve]

1 minute ago, Jeine092 said:

First of all, thank you for such big post.

I want to apologize for being so dense. It's not out of malice or intent, it just is. I'm not happy myself.

Now to your post.

I don't know how to turn off the engines. I only know how to make thrust stronger or weaker, and it doesn't work most of the time for some reason.

Each time I try to control the ship, it goes all over the place. I can't make it go to the direction I need.

Whatver you wrote further, I can't understand at all. I'm really sorry, like I said, it's not out of malice or ill intent.

It's fine.

Okay, so seeing as this is now more a control problem than an orbital mechanics problem.

Left shift and Left control control the throttle (percent power) on liquid fueled engines. In KSP there are two main types of rocket engines, liquid and solid. Liquid require tanks and can be throttled and restarted any amount, and solid boosters are like fireworks, once you start them you cannot throttle them or shut them off.

In addition to shift and control, pressing Z will instantly go to full throttle and pressing X will instantly go to 0% throttle.

 

And as far as control I see you know what SAS is, it will try to keep your ship pointed the same direction, and you probably already know WS (pitch) AD (Yaw) and QE (roll) which is how you manually control the direction. You can use RCS thrusters in space or fins in the atmosphere to help with control authority. Generally try to put fins at the bottom of your rocket. You can also use reaction wheels to help turn, it doesn't really matter where you put those.

 

And I saw your video, it looks like you're using the Russian localization. In that case I would like to say 2 things. 1, I have no idea how a Russian keyboard works so the keys are probably different. 2, great job on your English, I would never have guessed!

[Jeine092]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

It's fine.

Okay, so seeing as this is now more a control problem than an orbital mechanics problem.

Left shift and Left control control the throttle (percent power) on liquid fueled engines. In KSP there are two main types of rocket engines, liquid and solid. Liquid require tanks and can be throttled and restarted any amount, and solid boosters are like fireworks, once you start them you cannot throttle them or shut them off.

In addition to shift and control, pressing Z will instantly go to full throttle and pressing X will instantly go to 0% throttle.

 

And as far as control I see you know what SAS is, it will try to keep your ship pointed the same direction, and you probably already know WS (pitch) AD (Yaw) and QE (roll) which is how you manually control the direction. You can use RCS thrusters in space or fins in the atmosphere to help with control authority. Generally try to put fins at the bottom of your rocket. You can also use reaction wheels to help turn, it doesn't really matter where you put those.

 

And I saw your video, it looks like you're using the Russian localization. In that case I would like to say 2 things. 1, I have no idea how a Russian keyboard works so the keys are probably different. 2, great job on your English, I would never have guessed!

No, keys are the same, the control is standart. And when I said about thrust, I meant using lefst shift and ctrl to make it more powerful or weaker.

I tried to move the ship horyzontally previously, but I always crashed somewhere in the mountains. I don't know what I did wrong.

[peteletroll]

Have you tried the in game tutorials? Learn to orbit first. And remember everybody here is a little envious of you: the first landing on the Mun is pure, unforgettable, unrepeatable joy.

[Ultimate Steve]

20 minutes ago, Jeine092 said:

No, keys are the same, the control is standart. And when I said about thrust, I meant using lefst shift and ctrl to make it more powerful or weaker.

I tried to move the ship horyzontally previously, but I always crashed somewhere in the mountains. I don't know what I did wrong.

How long are you waiting before turning horizontally? If you're turning over too early you could end up in the mountains, but that could also happen on the way back down.

[Jeine092]

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

How long are you waiting before turning horizontally? If you're turning over too early you could end up in the mountains, but that could also happen on the way back down.

Once big engines fall down. I don't know exact time...

[Tyko]

14 minutes ago, Jeine092 said:

Once big engines fall down. I don't know exact time...

@Ultimate Steve The side boosters, what he's calling "big engines", are solid rocket, he can't throttle those...that may be what's causing confusion over throttle control

@Jeine092 you should really go through the tutorials within the game. it'll introduce concepts step by step. you need to learn to orbit kerbin before you can learn to orbit the mun and you need to learn how to do orbits before you can land on the mun

Edited August 21, 2018 by Tyko

[Jeine092]

37 minutes ago, peteletroll said:

Have you tried the in game tutorials? Learn to orbit first. And remember everybody here is a little envious of you: the first landing on the Mun is pure, unforgettable, unrepeatable joy.

 

6 minutes ago, Tyko said:

@Ultimate Steve The side boosters, what he's calling "big engines", are solid rocket, he can't throttle those...that may be what's causing confusion over throttle control

@Jeine092 you should really go through the tutorials within the game. it'll introduce concepts step by step. you need to learn to orbit kerbin before you can learn to orbit the mun and you need to learn how to do orbits before you can land on the mun

I went through them, but I crashed every single time they wanted me to fly into some direction. I can't do that, I'm sorry.