You have just bought 6 seats on the BFR luna flyby

[tater]

9 minutes ago, razark said:

Why not send artists?

It's not like there's going to be any science or engineering happening on that flight anyway.

Not much at the Gateway, either (that needs to be sent to a distant lunar orbit for a gajillion $, anyway).

[ThatGuyWithALongUsername]

Back on topic a bit, Martin Molin (of Wintergatan) just volunteered and I'd definitely choose him. I don't know who else, though.

I also love how this thread just sounds like a co.pletely fictional forum game or something. This does not sound like a real thing in the slightest... it's great.

 

 

[LordFerret]

2 hours ago, KSK said:

Genuinely curious about the 'no art without math and science though'. How does that work?

There's plenty of discussion and drawn conclusion on that across the web and throughout history... so we'll leave it at that.

I'll definitely agree with this however...

2 hours ago, tater said:

... it's interesting how many STEM people can do fully professional level art (visual, or musical in my set of friends), and how few artists can (or do) professional level STEM work.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by LordFerret

[tater]

His is what Yusaku thinks is worth spending loads of his own money on:

not a Vermeer, IMHO.

I have numerous works of art done by my kids better than that ^^^^

[James Kerman]

Yeah, it's not something I would want on my wall but it sold for $110 million last year so it proves art is subjective.

I don't think there is such a huge disconnect between art and STEM, just different elements of creativity, intelligence and thought.  The Dear Moon project has injected a "significant" amount of money into development of the BFR/BFS so in some ways the art is helping the science and engineering here.  I do feel that there is a risk that the venture may end up being depicted as the most pretentious thing a philanthropist has ever done in the media but the payoff in terms of culture and as a driver for space tourism could be amazing.  Imagine *insert top hip hop artist here* relaying his/her experience to millions of fans - how could this not inspire kids to want to be a part of these extra planetary endeavors.

Would Von Braun and the other early pioneers of spaceflight have decided to get into rocketry if there was no science fiction to inspire them?

[YNM]

On 9/18/2018 at 6:26 PM, James Kerman said:

So which artists would you take to inspire humanity?

Give me the list of 6 worst figures in the world, we'll crash lithobrake them to on the Moon.

Edited September 20, 2018 by YNM

[James Kerman]

9 minutes ago, YNM said:

Give me the list of 6 worst figures in the world, we'll crash them to the Moon.

Survivor: Moon - the shortest reality show in history of television!

....I'd actually watch that one.....

[tater]

1 hour ago, James Kerman said:

....I'd actually watch that one.....

But how much would you pay to watch that one?

[YNM]

2 minutes ago, tater said:

But how much would you pay to watch that one?

Superbowl commercial break.

[tater]

I was thinking pay per view. My neighbor buys those for some high-end boxing matches.

[kerbiloid]

If we could send Rubens to the Moon, he would draw a fat naked nymph there.
Just he always did that.

Edited September 20, 2018 by kerbiloid

[James Kerman]

48 minutes ago, tater said:

I was thinking pay per view.

It's not really a popular concept in Australia (at least in my social group).  Most of us watch large sporting events on location or at a pub (sports bar).

1 hour ago, tater said:

But how much would you pay to watch that one?

It was a joking comment, I don't think I'd actually watch a group of celebrities choking out on the moon for any price however if the Luna flyby VR experience is going to cost money I'd probably pay around $80 USD, depending on the passengers, for me and the family to experience it - but I play KSP so I'm kind of biased towards the idea.  It would probably return less than a drop in the ocean of cash that BFR/BFS will require to become a thing.

Imagine how many (there should be a word for people who are not interested in space flight = space muggles) spuggles would pay to watch if you put Beyoncé, Ed Sheeran or Bruno Mars on that flight.

[KSK]

6 hours ago, LordFerret said:

There's plenty of discussion and drawn conclusion on that across the web and throughout history... so we'll leave it at that.

I'll definitely agree with this however...

Well,  in the absence of links or more convincing reasons other than a vague appeal to authority, I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. It rather smacks of Rutherford's 'physics and stamp collecting' quote, with its strong overtone of 'my stuff is more important because without my stuff your stuff wouldn't be a thing.' I can think of overlaps between art and maths and/or science (symmetry being a notable example), I can think of arts that have been enabled or improved by science but I disagree with the absolutist view of 'no art without maths or science'.

But perhaps this isn't a discussion for this thread.

[tater]

I've found this thread really interesting, honestly.

When I first saw the presentation, I found it fairly moving. He's a rich guy, and I don't care how he spends his money at all. If he wanted to take his pet dog with him, instead, I'd think that was OK, too (what do I care?). Upon really thinking about it, though, I might be even less hopeful that something worthwhile could come out of it art-wise (and I never thought that it was super likely, anyway).

It's an interesting idea, and someday, enough regular people will be exposed to space travel that it might move the dial in terms of what we get to se/hear in some meaningful way. Having a success with just a handful of people seems unlikely, particularly if the guy doing the selection is more about signalling than recognizing aptitude.

[YNM]

9 hours ago, James Kerman said:

a group of celebrities choking out on the moon

I said "crash" as in "lithobraking".

Obviously the impactor mass will be fitted with seismic sensors and cameras and antennas and stuff. There will be a trailing relay that will also boast a camera.

[Green Baron]

That's is my opinion as well. I don't expect any outcome worth noting if that trip takes place at all.

But i am much more radical on this. I don't even expect the public to care much, if at all, about a pack of helpless brats under observation in a plastic box. Sure, we won't get around being annoyed by this type of low quality afternoon entertainment. We'll have a hard time trying to ignore it. But i strongly doubt anybody would really care, it would be as boring as watching people sitting in a plastic case talking about nothing, and during the ad block things are already forgotten. It will be pure show, nothing noteworthy.

The first gag of that sort (fh trip for two guys) has already been canceled, though a certification for capsule and rocket is probable for the next 1-2 years. If they really wanted to fly, they could make this much more concrete right now, really selecting people and starting to train them and actively working towards the goal of sending them around the moon in 3-4 years. But nothing like that, which makes me strongly believe that the bfr trip is, what the fh trip was before. Hot air. It'll be canceled just like the previous try or pushed far into the future (like 10 years).

 

I hope i appear more funny than offensive :-)

 

[James Kerman]

8 minutes ago, YNM said:

I said "crash" as in "lithobraking".

Obviously the impactor mass will be fitted with seismic sensors and cameras and antennas and stuff. There will be a trailing relay that will also boast a camera.

Joking: It would be more efficient to use C grade celebrities as reaction mass.

7 hours ago, KSK said:

But perhaps this isn't a discussion for this thread.

This was off the rails from the get go, Mate.  I don't mind what people post so long as it's civil and interesting.

33 minutes ago, tater said:

It's an interesting idea, and someday, enough regular people will be exposed to space travel that it might move the dial in terms of what we get to se/hear in some meaningful way. Having a success with just a handful of people seems unlikely, particularly if the guy doing the selection is more about signalling than recognizing aptitude.

He seems sincere to me.  I am biased because as a failed musician and a space nut the concept has really resonated with me.

4 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

That's is my opinion as well. I don't expect any outcome worth noting if that trip takes place at all.

Once again I feel the concept is original and interesting.  I know we're dealing with Elon time and reality and I know there is a possibility that the flight will never happen but I couldn't see any space agency or company doing something like this off their own bat, SpaceX included.  I give the guy props for putting his money up for the idea.

[kerbiloid]

Has anybody  mentioned Bear Grylls?

He would teach us how to eat  regolith moonburgers.

(If this is just a fly-by, then at least how to make a hypergolic cocktail.)

Edited September 20, 2018 by kerbiloid

[tater]

35 minutes ago, James Kerman said:

He seems sincere to me.  I am biased because as a failed musician and a space nut the concept has really resonated with me.

No, I get that as well, the announcement was really cool to me, too.

Music... I think it would have to be "serious" music (ie: classical) for me to be deeply impressed, and modern classical music doesn't do much for me (wake me when we have a new Bach writing stuff). Popular music? I listen to a lot, and enjoy it., but it seems unlikely to express anything interesting about such a trip, though who knows. Painting? Again, Maezawa's taste there is such that I could show a 5 year old with a severe tremor pictures of the Moon and get something every bit as interesting as Basquiat.

Still, as a commercial venture, I like it just because it's frivolous. Dedicated people have spent huge sums on "out there" hobbies before (Cameron and his deep sea work, for example). But taking people "just because" lifts space travel to a new level in some ways.

2 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Has anybody  mentioned Bear Grylls.

He would teach us how to eat  regolith moonburgers.

He also would know what to do if they ran out of water...

Edited September 20, 2018 by tater

[kerbiloid]

Symphonic rock.

[Green Baron]

Bach ? So ... systematic.

Not rather Beethoven, Verdi, Händel, Mozart, R Strauss ?

+ Galileo (he was an artist as well !).

Oh, that's six (coffins) already. I kick out Händel, Verdi and Strauss, keep old Ludwig for the Overture and Mozart for quick Requiem (unfinished, of course), Paul Bocuse for the catering, S. Dali for picturing the time that won't pass and Keith Haring as a fresh spot among the others and to decorate the interior. His figures are weightlessly floating anyway.

I kindly beg for pardon, but i simply do not know enough contemporary artists ...

[LordFerret]

8 hours ago, KSK said:

Well,  in the absence of links or more convincing reasons other than a vague appeal to authority, I'm going to have to disagree with that statement.

This has been discussed everywhere, for ages, and is pretty much common knowledge at this point - or so I would think.

 

http://www.ams.org/publicoutreach/feature-column/fcarc-art1

And from that article, "April is Mathematics Awareness Month, and this year's theme is Mathematics and Art.", KSP being what it is, someone could take that and run with it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/alexs-adventures-in-numberland/2015/dec/02/why-the-history-of-maths-is-also-the-history-of-art

 

And of course (last on the list),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_and_art

 

Let's throw this in as well...
https://www.ted.com/topics/science+and+art

[tater]

14 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

Bach ? So ... systematic.

Not rather Beethoven, Verdi, Händel, Mozart, R Strauss ?

+ Galileo (he was an artist as well !).

Oh, that's six (coffins) already. I kick out Händel, Verdi and Strauss, keep old Ludwig for the Overture and Mozart for quick Requiem (unfinished, of course), Paul Bocuse for the catering, S. Dali for picturing the time that won't pass and Keith Haring as a fresh spot among the others and to decorate the interior. His figures are weightlessly floating anyway.

I kindly beg for pardon, but i simply do not know enough contemporary artists ...

I was typing on my phone, lacked the will to type all the stuff I like. You get the idea, though. Quality, evocative composition that you wouldn't otherwise get is probably unlikely.

 

[LordFerret]

 

 

And as far as picking people to go on this ride, how about choosing six people from around the world from the most non-advanced, uncivilized, remotest populations that exist?

[kerbiloid]

Students who failed exams?