Hypothetical Earth modification - shallow oceans

[kerbiloid]

(Sadly looks at the map of Mediterranean Sea, white-blue places where depth is < 150 m).

[ChrisSpace]

On 26 September 2018 at 1:50 AM, Green Baron said:

Nearly every field of geoscience plays a role here.

And also:

- Sealth submarines wouldn't exist, since they wouldn't be able to go deep enough to be visually invisible

- Giant sea cryptids such as the Kraken would either be much smaller or non-existent in folklore since the sea literally isn't deep enough for a Kraken to fit in

- Every shipwreck ever would be recoverable

On 26 September 2018 at 2:12 AM, kerbiloid said:

Where should we move the other water?

Throw it all on Mars, like Randall Munroe once suggested. Or clump it together and give it an elliptical orbit to make the mother of all comets.

On 26 September 2018 at 2:35 AM, NSEP said:

One thing for sure is that ecosystem will be changed drastically.

Well first of all, say bye bye to deep sea horror creatures like the Anglerfish, woop woop! 50 meters deep is shallow enough that here would be sunlight everywhere through this global ocean, and also shallow enough for large plants to support themselves. So expect there to be a giant global kelp forest. Such a giant global kelp forest would also produce more O2. And the more oxygen, the bigger the bugs

-Creates petition to yeet 99% of Earth's water into space-

On 26 September 2018 at 4:06 AM, p1t1o said:

And, as far as I know, there are no highly efficient, flesh-eating, eating-machines with hundreds of pointy teeth and cold, cold, black eyes waiting for me in the depths of space.

What are you referring to, exactly? Sharks? Sperm Whales? Atlanteans?

On 26 September 2018 at 7:00 AM, Scotius said:

50 meters deep water in tropics. Add generous amount of heat thanks to sunlight, and you will have a nightmarish conga line of super-hurricanes in no time. I don't want to live on your deathworld!

New idea, turn all the excess water into a planetary ring to cover up some of the sunlight hitting the equator. Problem solved.

[ChrisSpace]

7 hours ago, James Kerman said:

What kind of tidal effects could we expect to see on this hypothetical Earth?

Probably the same, unless our excess water is put near Earth

[Hannu2]

On 9/25/2018 at 6:17 PM, p1t1o said:

Inspired by another thread.

So, the ocean is objectively terrifying, Im not ashamed to admit it scares the je-heebus out of me.

I ask myself "What can be done about that?"

I think if all the oceans had a maximum, and uniform in open water, depth of, say 50m, then it would seem far, far less terrifying.

No I know it deosnt make alot of practical sense, but thats not the question.

 

If we gave all the worlds seas and oceans a max depth of 50m, what are the connotations of that? Weather? Seismology? Travel? Energy? Go crazy with it. 

What is the worst/best that could happen?

What is the weirdest that could happen?

Probably that kind of ocean would be very unstable. It would dry during ice ages or probably geological processes would divide it to smaller lakes. I read somewhere that some scientists estimate that there is comparable amount of water in Earth's mantle. If it is true volcanic processes could change significantly amount of surface water. Or if mantle were dry plate tectonics would be different or even non existent.

Actually depth of oceans are very shallow on planetary scale. Average depth of about 3,5 km is nothing compared to radius of 6700 km. If you have normal 30 cm spherical world map it would correspond to 0.15 mm. Deepest point would be 0.4 mm. Earth is not a wet planet, if has just some fine spray of water on it.

[Green Baron]

10 hours ago, James Kerman said:

What kind of tidal effects could we expect to see on this hypothetical Earth?

I would guess that a worldwide equal water depth of 50m would not be enough water column to produce remarkable tides at all. Hypothetically i mean :-)

Marginal and epicontinental seas don't have much tidal range, a few centimeters in the Baltic, up to 50cm in the western Mediterranean, and i read in the Caribbean its only decimeters as well. The northern Atlantic receives its tidal bulges mostly from the large water bodies in the southern hemispheres, from where it spreads northwards (age of tide). There tidal range lies between 1-2m at neap and max 2-3m at spring time. The Pacific is big enough, i think an age of tide plays little role there.

Higher tidal ranges of up to 10m and (rarely) more are a result of local geography and sea floor shape, where the bulge is compressed and so.

2 hours ago, ChrisSpace said:

New idea, turn all the excess water into a planetary ring to cover up some of the sunlight hitting the equator. Problem solved.

Cool idea. Has been a topic in Stanislaw Lem's scifi novel "Fiasco". But then malicious aliens came and let it all rain down ...

I am against aliens, the only have stupid ideas ...

Edited September 27, 2018 by Green Baron

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Hannu2 said:

Average depth of about 3,5 km is nothing compared to radius of 6700 km

But if compare the average ocean depth (3.7 km) to the average height of dry land (0.9 km)...

... and remember that the dry land occupies just 29% of the Earth surface area...

P.S.
When the Flat Earth model works better. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by kerbiloid

[p1t1o]

4 hours ago, ChrisSpace said:

What are you referring to, exactly? Sharks? Sperm Whales? Atlanteans?

All of the above? How would I know? NOBODY KNOWS!!! Its a horrible nightmare mystery world of darkness and dark-adapted horrors.

Unlike space which is full of starlight, sparkles, dreams and the odd radiation belt.

14 hours ago, Cassel said:

That explains why nobody found it :-)

I hope that that was a joke

 

 

[kerbiloid]

If the ocean was 50 m deep, both US and UK would be in trouble, as they mostly have SLBM.

36 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

NOBODY KNOWS!!! Its a horrible nightmare mystery world of darkness and dark-adapted horrors.

Why nobody?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop

Upd.
Ouch. The English wiki lacks the most important part: 
The Bloop coordinates (50 S 100 W) are in 2000 km from the Lovecraft's coordinates of Cthulhu's R'lyeh underwater town: 47°09′ S 126°43′ W.

Upd2.
Note, that the wiki bloopsound rate is raised 16^x. 

Upd3.
I now like NOAA not only for their weather for free.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unexplained_sounds#NOAA_(formerly_unidentified)

Edited September 27, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Green Baron]

31 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

All of the above? How would I know? NOBODY KNOWS!!! Its a horrible nightmare mystery world of darkness and dark-adapted horrors.

Ehm, you know the "Riddikulus" spell (not sure about the correct spelling) ?

Imagine somebody pulls the plug, all the water gargles empty and the suddenly revealed horrors pull up their pants and run off in panic in search for a place to hide. I think the spell is called "Booh" ... :-)

[p1t1o]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

If the ocean was 50 m deep, both US and UK would be in trouble, as they mostly have SLBM.

Thats easy, stick tank-tracks onto them and drive them onto the land. 

[ChrisSpace]

13 hours ago, p1t1o said:

All of the above? How would I know? NOBODY KNOWS!!! Its a horrible nightmare mystery world of darkness and dark-adapted horrors.

Unfortunately, all the "super-dangerous" creatures of the deep have probably already been discovered. Some quick search lists the following:

 

Saltwater crocodile: Has more of a taste for human than anything else on this list, occasionally swims between islands in SE Asia

Sharks: Actually think humans are disgusting, and only really attack if they smell blood or think you're not a human

Giant/Goliath Grouper: Very rarely attempts predation on scuba divers, no successful attempt known

Humboldt squid: In large swarms, supposedly acts like how Piranhas act in popular culture

Sperm Whale: The only whale known to swallow human-sized squid whole, but only hunts really deep down in the ocean

[DATA EXPUNGED]

Venomous things: Far too many for me to list

Edited September 28, 2018 by ChrisSpace

[Cassel]

On 9/26/2018 at 11:52 PM, Green Baron said:

Little. My Chinese is terrible. I can't even eat with with sticks :-)

Seem to be ubiquitious burial mounds, placed through the dynasties, some in pyramidal form. Nothing special i'd say. They are tourist attractions i read on Wikipedia (Wikipedia, yeuch :-)).

And you speak like an expert who certainly rejects this possibility. Maybe it's worth changing the tone of the speech?

On 9/26/2018 at 11:52 PM, Green Baron said:

Btw. Pyramids exist in Central and Southern America as well ....

Which suggests, as already noted, that these civilizations could know about each other. If the largest and most developed civilization would have a capital where the Sahara's Eye is, then the chance to swim to South and Central America increases.

On 9/26/2018 at 11:52 PM, Green Baron said:

 

I am sure that has been done. Assume water levels during glacial maxima to be 120m lower, in OIS 5e to be 5m higher than today. I am sure one can find better estimates and ones with a higher time resolution than those over my left thumb in the field of quaternary research.

Nope. You're mixing something up. The straight closed in the Upper Miocene (Messinian) 6-5 million years ago, not thousands. Search spell "Messinian Salinity Crisis". The Med then dried almost completely out (2.5km water column are in discussion iirc) in short time (1000y) and when the dam broke or opened again the cauldron ran full.

Well, a catastrophic flooding has been a working hypothesis for quite some time, because deep incises and corresponding geologic features were found. Just recently a work was published: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-19446-3

Must have been a nice show, 1,5km waterfall and spreading from west to east, jumping over the Malta ridge into the Ionian sea. But 5my ago, not 5ky.
 

 

The Bosporus Straight, today's Istanbul, postglacial, but that's a different thing. It was hypothesized that the post glacial sea level rise of the Atlantic and Mediterranean might have caused a natural dam in the Marmara Sea to break and cause a semi catastrophic inflow of saltwater into the Black Sea. But recent work refutes that hypothesis: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025322707001077. If submerged sites were or are found there, i'd love to have an individual look at each of the accompanying publications (that excludes pop science, sorry). I must say, i am not a specialist in that area

Not millions of years ago. These studies have not yet taken into account where the water from these three great lakes from Africa has gone, and these events are dated to a similar period.


https://medium.com/@nikolaypeshev/7-500-b-c-the-flood-in-the-black-sea-studies-legends-and-disputes-891ac73a2081
 

On 9/26/2018 at 11:52 PM, Green Baron said:

Gobera is (just another) a burial place, though it has its appeal in its setting, it is not a civilisation ;-) It needs a little more for that ...

 

Gobero is the name of the location, not of civilization, again if you deny it, although familiarize yourself with the basics. Two Kiffian and Tenerian cultures were found there, Tenerian culture died out because of drought.

[Green Baron]

The med dry-out is clearly 6-5 million years before now, not 1000s.

------------------

The inflow of saltwater from the med into the black sea through the Bosporus does take place, there is not doubt. The saltwater is cut off from oxygen below a layer of freshwater from the rivers from the surrounding lands. The work i linked explains well the current configuration with a gradual ongoing process. But in correlation with other work in the same area (see abstract) it actually needs a constant flow between the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea since 16ky without any catastrophic events.

Maybe people will have a hard time finding sunken sites in the anoxic waters below the current Black Sea shoreline.

I am still willing to accept that possibility because it has been a hypothesis for more than 20 years, i only need more than pop science articles or youtube videos. Views change with the weighing of new data :-)

Have a nice day :-)

Edited September 29, 2018 by Green Baron