[KSP >= 1.3.0] TweakScale - Under Lisias' Management - 2.4.7.6 - 2024-0322

[Kerbal2023]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

You can check it yourself!

I thought I did. They were all the same size, no matter what I do to the part in VAB. Might have overlooked that they are not.

If the parachutes themselves scale, that's really awesome!

Edited November 26, 2023 by Kerbal2023

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, Kerbal2023 said:

I thought I did. They were all the same size, no matter what I do to the part in VAB. Might have overlooked that they are not.

If the parachutes themselves scale, that's really awesome!

Well, I just downloaded this craft and had a test run using it on KSP 1.12.5 with the latest TweakScale et all. (ignore the warning about the missing module HitTracker).

Then I launched the thing, cheated my way into 50Km high (just for the lulz), and did a test run using the chutes. I pressed F-12 to visually check the drag, as well have the Debug activated, and checked the drag on the PAW too. Everything working as expected...

It's really something pretty basic, I don't understand why you didn't managed to check it yourself.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Lisias
Updating image. What's happening? Github problem?

[Kerbal2023]

40 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I don't understand why you didn't managed to check it yourself.

I must have looked wrong and thought they were the same size.

[toadstuulguy]

For some reason the Graphite radiators from FFT/System heat, not sure which mod, don't seem to be affected by tweak scale. When I installed it other parts worked fine but there isn't any scale option for the graphite panels. 

[Lisias]

15 minutes ago, toadstuulguy said:

For some reason the Graphite radiators from FFT/System heat, not sure which mod, don't seem to be affected by tweak scale. When I installed it other parts worked fine but there isn't any scale option for the graphite panels. 

System Heat is something I need to work out yet.

The good news is that Seasons is coming, and I will have free time to work on the Companions again!

https://github.com/TweakScale/Companion_Frameworks/issues/7

[toadstuulguy]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

System Heat is something I need to work out yet.

The good news is that Seasons is coming, and I will have free time to work on the Companions again!

https://github.com/TweakScale/Companion_Frameworks/issues/7

Alright, is there any way I could somehow get them to scale properly at the moment? I've seen Nessus' Saturn video and he had triangular panels that were much larger than they are by default so I'm wondering how I can achieve a similar look.

[Lisias]

7 hours ago, toadstuulguy said:

Alright, is there any way I could somehow get them to scale properly at the moment? I've seen Nessus' Saturn video and he had triangular panels that were much larger than they are by default so I'm wondering how I can achieve a similar look.

Nope . System Heat is a whole new set of PadtModules  and I need to check them in order to know what to scale and what not.

Even  by using something like All Tweak, the thing will misbehave because the new PartModules aren't supported.

[Lisias]

NOTAM

Some weeks ago, it came to my attention that some users would be running KSP on a super user account (root on UNIX, Administrator on Windows) to workaround some mishaps (I'm afraid I was the cause of one of them, it is fixed right now. My apologies).

I can't stress too much how this is terrible. Please, please, please, don't do that. If you think it's related to TweakScale (it was once), or even if by any other cause (this is too much important to deny help no matter the cause), please pesky me here for help and I will do my best to work on a solution.

Because:

1. I have evidences (but no hard proof at this moment, I'm being obliged to say) that KSP may be being silently monkey patched by the publisher or any other interested party.
   1. Every time you open KSP, it connects to a server. Without authorisation, without a (known) way to deactivate, other that completely firewall the program from the Internet - but then you may lose some features, as Kerbal-X.
   2. If this is used to inject code on the game (and it's a bug IF at this moment, I need to say), then running KSP as Super User will allow such third party to remotely install anything on your rig, from malware and botnets to criptominers).
2. There's a new trend on closed source add'ons being used by the eco system, so there's no (straightforward and 100% legal) way to verify the code's integrity and good behaviour.
3. We don't know even the real name of most of the add'on authors, there's little to no chain of trust on the whole eco system.
4. There's a growing trend of add'ons to monkey patch themselves the game (using Harmony), adding yet another layer of insecurity on the runtime.
5. There's a terrible trend on the communities to do anything to workaround any inconvenience, instead of doing things right.
   1. as running KSP as Administrator to workaround safeties coded to prevent mishaps (instead of fixing the mishaps!!!).

Now add all of that and imagine how much time until an adversarial decide to use KSP to spread malware - it's hypothetical at this time, but heck - every single malware campaign in the past was hypothetical until detected in the wild.

So, and again, if you see yourself in the need of running KSP as a Super User, whatever you are doing, don't. If it's a mod, downgrade it or just remove - even if it's TweakScale. Absolutely no game or mod worths the risk you would be taking by doing this.

Scale safe!!!

Edited December 19, 2023 by Lisias
Wrong link fixed.

[Dix2lespace]

Hi and good year for all,

Can we share on darkmultiplayer a craft ship with tweakscale resized parts?

My friend made a ship with tweascale and I don't see his ship in orbit.

[Lisias]

5 minutes ago, Dix2lespace said:

Hi and good year for all,

For you too!

 

6 minutes ago, Dix2lespace said:

Hi and good year for all,

Can we share on darkmultiplayer a craft ship with tweakscale resized parts?

My friend made a ship with tweascale and I don't see his ship in orbit.

This is a question to be make on the DMP Forum, because I don't have the slightest idea how it works. As is, I only support Stock (even other mods were delegated to a TweakScale Companion).

What I can do for you is: ask DMP's guys about. If they say "nope", ask if they are willing to teach me how to cope with DMP and I will code a TweakScale Companion for DMP.

Cheers!

— PS — 

What I think I remember (I may be misunderstanding it with Luna, it's some years since the last time I checked about), is that the server must have all the add'ons installed too, installing add'ons only on the clients is not enough. So, perhaps, this is a question to be made to the server's maintainer, not even the DMP's.

[Dix2lespace]

The server host is the PC of my friend in local network. We installed, yesterday, exactly the same mod. The sharing ship craft work with stock and modded parts, but when I used tweakscale, he can't share me  his ship.

I'll try with new proper KSP install and I'll try to have help on the Darkmultiplayer forum to.

Thanks Lisias for your advices

[Krydax]

I am encountering an odd bug. I add a stayputnik, I add a flea SRB below it. I scale down the flea. By simply changing the "variant" to orange or whatever, the whole SRB moves up. Each time I change the variant, the SRB moves up again. 

I'm not entirely certain if it's tweakscale, b9 part switch, or KSP recall, but I just started a new save and am running into this issue whenever trying to change variants of tweakscaled parts. I'm certain it has something to do with the part wanting to "stay attached", but it's like two mods are trying to do the same thing and so the part gets moved twice as much as it should (or something, idk).

Any ideas? Is this a known thing? I have an entire mod soup, but it's the same type of mod soup I've used before and not seen this issue, so I presume it's one of the three mods I mentioned earlier having some odd interaction.

I have Tweakscale 2.4.7.4 installed, as well as tweakscale companion (the uberpaket).

Edited January 11 by Krydax

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, Krydax said:

I am encountering an odd bug. I add a stayputnik, I add a flea SRB below it. I scale down the flea. By simply changing the "variant" to orange or whatever, the whole SRB moves up. Each time I change the variant, the SRB moves up again. 

I'm not entirely certain if it's tweakscale, b9 part switch, or KSP recall, but I just started a new save and am running into this issue whenever trying to change variants of tweakscaled parts. I'm certain it has something to do with the part wanting to "stay attached", but it's like two mods are trying to do the same thing and so the part gets moved twice as much as it should (or something, idk).

Any ideas? Is this a known thing? I have an entire mod soup, but it's the same type of mod soup I've used before and not seen this issue, so I presume it's one of the three mods I mentioned earlier having some odd interaction.

I have Tweakscale 2.4.7.4 installed, as well as tweakscale companion (the uberpaket).

Hi, sorry for that. It's a known bug on TweakScale - https://github.com/TweakScale/TweakScale/issues/307 .

The only known workaround at this time is to do not change Variants on scaled parts - set the part to the default scale, change the variant, and then scale it back to the desired one.

The root cause of the problem is that I didn't fully understood what Editor does under the bonnet under certain circumstances. Apparently the Editor is breaking the Modules OOP encapsulation doing things outside the Part's life cycle, screwing with Modules that tries to follow the cannon Life Cycle.

But it's a guess.

Spoiler

Adding insult to the injury, I quit trying to fix these on the 2.4 series, as only the 2.5 have some refactoring that are allowing me to implement/fix things with better chances of not breaking something else - right now, on 2.4, things are kinda on a fickly equilibrium where changes can trigger a crapstorm. But the 2.5 series will be problematic to deploy, because (due unrelated issues to this problem) I'm currently unable to add new add'ons to CKAN and, so,  I will not be able to publish KSPe as a separated support library - and the 2.5 series don't use that KSPe.Light stunt anymore.

There's a chance that the 2.5 Series will be published only on Curseforge, as any attempt to update SpaceDock (where CKAN gets the new releases) will break the user's installations.

 

[Krydax]

7 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Hi, sorry for that. It's a known bug on TweakScale - https://github.com/TweakScale/TweakScale/issues/307 .

The only known workaround at this time is to do not change Variants on scaled parts - set the part to the default scale, change the variant, and then scale it back to the desired one.

The root cause of the problem is that I didn't fully understood what Editor does under the bonnet under certain circumstances. Apparently the Editor is breaking the Modules OOP encapsulation doing things outside the Part's life cycle, screwing with Modules that tries to follow the cannon Life Cycle.

But it's a guess.

  Hide contents

Adding insult to the injury, I quit trying to fix these on the 2.4 series, as only the 2.5 have some refactoring that are allowing me to implement/fix things with better chances of not breaking something else - right now, on 2.4, things are kinda on a fickly equilibrium where changes can trigger a crapstorm. But the 2.5 series will be problematic to deploy, because (due unrelated issues to this problem) I'm currently unable to add new add'ons to CKAN and, so,  I will not be able to publish KSPe as a separated support library - and the 2.5 series don't use that KSPe.Light stunt anymore.

There's a chance that the 2.5 Series will be published only on Curseforge, as any attempt to update SpaceDock (where CKAN gets the new releases) will break the user's installations.

 

Aha. Thank you for confirming! At least it's known. Guess I'll just deal with it for now  Thanks for all your hard work!

[Krydax]

21 hours ago, Lisias said:

Hi, sorry for that. It's a known bug on TweakScale - https://github.com/TweakScale/TweakScale/issues/307 .

The only known workaround at this time is to do not change Variants on scaled parts - set the part to the default scale, change the variant, and then scale it back to the desired one.

The root cause of the problem is that I didn't fully understood what Editor does under the bonnet under certain circumstances. Apparently the Editor is breaking the Modules OOP encapsulation doing things outside the Part's life cycle, screwing with Modules that tries to follow the cannon Life Cycle.

But it's a guess.

  Reveal hidden contents

Adding insult to the injury, I quit trying to fix these on the 2.4 series, as only the 2.5 have some refactoring that are allowing me to implement/fix things with better chances of not breaking something else - right now, on 2.4, things are kinda on a fickly equilibrium where changes can trigger a crapstorm. But the 2.5 series will be problematic to deploy, because (due unrelated issues to this problem) I'm currently unable to add new add'ons to CKAN and, so,  I will not be able to publish KSPe as a separated support library - and the 2.5 series don't use that KSPe.Light stunt anymore.

There's a chance that the 2.5 Series will be published only on Curseforge, as any attempt to update SpaceDock (where CKAN gets the new releases) will break the user's installations.

 

uhoh. New issue. Now when i revert to vab, things are disconnecting when I have tweakscaled parts. In this case, upon reverting to vab, a 1.5long0.625diameter procedural fuel tank moved "up" into a tweakscaled 1.25 -> 0.625 service bay (and a tweakscaled 1.25 -> 0.625 terrier on the bottom of the fuel tank is now "floating" underneath). So it's like the fuel tank moved but nothing else did.  https://imgur.com/a/uFDZ2Lq

If tweakscale is going to break stuff every single time I revert/load a craft, then that may be too much of a thing for me to work around unfortunately. With any luck, there's something I can change, or I'm doing something wrong to cause this? If so I'm not sure what it is though.

Edited January 12 by Krydax

[Lisias]

29 minutes ago, Krydax said:

uhoh. New issue. Now when i revert to vab, things are disconnecting when I have tweakscaled parts. In this case, upon reverting to vab, a 1.5long0.625diameter procedural fuel tank moved "up" into a tweakscaled 1.25 -> 0.625 service bay (and a tweakscaled 1.25 -> 0.625 terrier on the bottom of the fuel tank is now "floating" underneath). So it's like the fuel tank moved but nothing else did.  https://imgur.com/a/uFDZ2Lq

If tweakscale is going to break stuff every single time I revert/load a craft, then that may be too much of a thing for me to work around unfortunately. With any luck, there's something I can change, or I'm doing something wrong to cause this? If so I'm not sure what it is though.

This looks similar to this old issue : https://github.com/TweakScale/TweakScale/issues/168

Are you using B9PS?

I'm firing up my test bed to check this possible regression… 

[Krydax]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

This looks similar to this old issue : https://github.com/TweakScale/TweakScale/issues/168

Are you using B9PS?

I'm firing up my test bed to check this possible regression… 

Yes, I have b9 part switch. As well as firespitter. I also have smart parts, but the auto-stuff is disabled on them, so that *shouldn't* be messing with anything. I can try removing it and see if bug continues. 

[Lisias]

Wait!!

35 minutes ago, Krydax said:

In this case, upon reverting to vab, a 1.5long0.625diameter procedural fuel tank 

Looks more like this: https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/issues/41

Please be sure this patch is being applied:

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/blob/master/GameData/999_KSP-Recall/patches/101_ProceduralPartsAttachmentNodesFix.cfg

Unfortunately, a proper fix on the Procedural Parts itself was denied, so we will need to deal with workarounds forever.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/ProceduralParts/issues/315

— — POST EDIT — —

You were faster than me.

2 minutes ago, Krydax said:

Yes, I have b9 part switch. As well as firespitter. I also have smart parts, but the auto-stuff is disabled on them, so that *shouldn't* be messing with anything. I can try removing it and see if bug continues. 

Yep, I agree. Looks more like Procedural Parts again. Please check above.

Edited January 12 by Lisias
POST EDIT

[Krydax]

Just now, Lisias said:

Wait!!

Looks more like this: https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/issues/41

Please be sure this patch is being applied:

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/blob/master/GameData/999_KSP-Recall/patches/101_ProceduralPartsAttachmentNodesFix.cfg

Unfortunately, a proper fix on the Procedural Parts itself was denied, so we will need to deal with workarounds forever.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/ProceduralParts/issues/315

You are amazing. I will try this!

Here's my ksp.log too if you're interested. I'll report back with results!

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

Wait!!

Looks more like this: https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/issues/41

Please be sure this patch is being applied:

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/blob/master/GameData/999_KSP-Recall/patches/101_ProceduralPartsAttachmentNodesFix.cfg

Unfortunately, a proper fix on the Procedural Parts itself was denied, so we will need to deal with workarounds forever.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/ProceduralParts/issues/315

Ah. Just checked. I already have that file/patch. So I don't *think* that's the issue then?

[Lisias]

Just now, Krydax said:

You are amazing. I will try this!

Here's my ksp.log too if you're interested. I'll report back with results!

I think Forum still have that problem with attachments? Anyway, if you have a github account, shove the Log on a comment here:

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/issues/41

[Krydax]

Just now, Lisias said:

I think Forum still have that problem with attachments? Anyway, if you have a github account, shove the Log on a comment here:

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/issues/41

I don't think that's the same issue. In this case, a procedural part is not the root. I started with a probe core. 

To add more info, I just reproduced it easily:

1. Probe core (okto in this case)

2. Service bay 1.25m, tweakscale it to .625

3. add procedural fuel tank

4. add terrior, tweakscale it down.

5. launch craft

6. revert and BOOM. Things moved and now stuff is janked.

I just tried with a flt400 instead of a procedural fuel tank, and the issue did NOT occur. So that does narrow it down to being procedural part related.

[Krydax]

Here's an interesting fact:

You mentioned the 999-KSP Recall 101_ProceduralPartsAttachmentNodesFix.cfg

Guess what, I deleted it out of my gamedata folder (just to see what happened), and the bug still persists the same way. So was that cfg even doing anything? It seems like it isn't doing what its intended to do.

[Krydax]

I also saw that in KSP-Recall.cfg,

Line 17, ProceduralPartsAttachmentNodes = false

That stuck me as odd, but changing it to true didn't fix anything either. So idk. I think I'm in too deep at this point and have no idea what I'm messing with.

[Krydax]

Okay

More testing complete. 
By changing the engine on the bottom to uncheck "KSP-Recall::Attached on Edit", the engine properly "follows" the tank up into the service bay. So they both move together. (this is still bad though, cause the tank moves up into the service bay in the first place, because the service bay is tweaked to be smaller and the procedural part somehow double compensates when it loads in or something)

 

That being the case, now I'm convinced that the issue is that the procedural tank does NOT have the "attached on edit" module. Is that meant to be the case? Or is it supposed to be lacking the attached on edit module?

 

Edited January 12 by Krydax

[Lisias]

49 minutes ago, Krydax said:

Here's an interesting fact:

You mentioned the 999-KSP Recall 101_ProceduralPartsAttachmentNodesFix.cfg

Guess what, I deleted it out of my gamedata folder (just to see what happened), and the bug still persists the same way. So was that cfg even doing anything? It seems like it isn't doing what its intended to do.

That's interesting… Please restore your rig, reproduce the problem, quit KSP and send me somehow the KSP.log and the screwed craft file for analysis.