How do you land a probe on Eve\thicc atmosphere planet?

[Actually_New_KSP_Player]

I've successfully landed my probe, but when it was going through eve's atmosphere it's antenna got destroyed even though it was behind the shield and since i can't hide it for that time is there any real way to make it without launching another 2 satellites - first for landing and second for connection? (I don't care abou that one much)

Edited November 22, 2018 by Actually_New_KSP_Player

[DerekL1963]

What kind of antenna were you using?  Pix of your probe would help.

Bad news is, yeah, if the probe is already landed you're going to have to launch a relay or a better designed probe.

In a case like this, I'll often use one of the RA series mounted on the top of the probe or just cut to the chase and mount a relay on the cruise stage.

[bewing]

You can always land anything (even with no heatshield)  if you just burn enough fuel to get the reentry speed below 1500 m/s surface speed. So no, if you want to redo this mission it is not absolutely necessary to have a relay in orbit -- what you save on the heatshield, you just have to spend on some extra fuel.

 

[Actually_New_KSP_Player]

12 minutes ago, DerekL1963 said:

What kind of antenna were you using?  Pix of your probe would help.

Bad news is, yeah, if the probe is already landed you're going to have to launch a relay or a better designed probe.

In a case like this, I'll often use one of the RA series mounted on the top of the probe or just cut to the chase and mount a relay on the cruise stage.

I've edited the main post and i meant launching another 2 satellites - first for connection and second for landing, that one is dead since solar panels are closed, anyways i don't care much about it.

1 minute ago, bewing said:

You can always land anything (even with no heatshield)  if you just burn enough fuel to get the reentry speed below 1500 m/s surface speed. So no, if you want to redo this mission it is not absolutely necessary to have a relay in orbit -- what you save on the heatshield, you just have to spend on some extra fuel.

 

Not sure how it will be more effective than heatshield if i burn from ~3500 to 1500. Well technically you can make a very slight aerobrake, but it will take ages.

[Guest]

On 11/22/2018 at 9:31 AM, Actually_New_KSP_Player said:

Not sure how it will be more effective than heatshield if i burn from ~3500 to 1500. Well technically you can make a very slight aerobrake, but it will take ages.

It depends on your spacecraft design. If it's reasonably heat resistant and low-density, you can aerobrake a quite a lot off that. Small gliders work well for Eve. 

It carries a small rover:

 

[Actually_New_KSP_Player]

4 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

It depends on your spacecraft design. If it's reasonably heat resistant and low-density, you can aerobrake a quite a lot off that. Small gliders work well for Eve. 

 

How do you land exactly that plane? I don't see much landing gear, engines or chutes.

In my expirience i often end up in one of those situations: burning in atmosphere entirely, waiting for in-game months to get a decent orbit and then choose a landing spot, losing too much speed -> forced landing in the middle of nowhere or getting a decent orbit but with speed that is impossible to land without heatshield. The last one is especially true in eve's case with it's gravity. I think that is why i only use aerobraking for example when i don't have much fuel left to get in Kerbin's orbit so i slowing down through it's atmosphere with heatshield on.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Actually_New_KSP_Player said:

How do you land exactly that plane? I don't see much landing gear, engines or chutes.

There is landing gear. You can see one of them hanging below the fuselage. Normal tricycle setup, one on the nose, two towards the back. I decoupled the engines after initiating re-entry since I no longer need them.

Heat shields aren't necessary, the craft is light enough and aerodynamically draggy enough when pointed upwards that it'll survive re-entry without them.

To land, I just glide it where I want it and... land. It's quite easy with this one. I do plan my re-entry so that I don't end up too far over ocean, but the controllable part of the glide down is pretty long so there is a fair bit of room to fine-tune it.

Landing this girl on the other hand was not so easy. No heat shields there either ...

... but she's good for a return trip. Well, a part of her anyway.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Guest

[Actually_New_KSP_Player]

6 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

If it's reasonably heat resistant and low-density, you can aerobrake a quite a lot off that.

How can i make it heat-resistant though? My only idea is to add heat shield, i didn't on my first launch and my ship just burned out even when i touched the atmosphere on 85000 m alt. And it only weighs 3.8 tonns with rover on board.

There is also still a problem where i can not slowdown below 3000 m\s enough or i'll fall from orbit due to eve's strong gravity.

[Guest]

It's sufficiently heat resistant as it is. You don't need those airbrakes either. Just point it straight up (=radial out) when re-entering, and it'll bleed off speed fast enough so it won't burn, assuming you're in a suitable entry corridor.

You do need to get to LEO first though. It's will burn up if you attempt an aerocapture; you need retro rockets for that.

[Actually_New_KSP_Player]

19 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

It's sufficiently heat resistant as it is. You don't need those airbrakes either.

When my nose and airbrakes exploded and flat control module appeared on the front my speed gone down from ~2500 to 200 in just a few seconds, huh. Definitely need to place something flat there.

[Guest]

It sounds like you're coming in much too steep. 

[Actually_New_KSP_Player]

3 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

It sounds like you're coming in much too steep. 

The ship just got unstable but still controlable in thicker atmosphere.

[Freds]

Shallow reentry with heat shields, or, the gliding plane. What i suggest is the installation of parachutes on front and back of the glider, so it can land even without a flat surface. (Bring it near to the destination as a parachute safe speed,  open the parachute and watch it land smoothy).

[Snark]

On 11/21/2018 at 9:15 PM, Actually_New_KSP_Player said:

when it was going through eve's atmosphere it's antenna got destroyed even though it was behind the shield

Can you define "got destroyed"?  Specifically,

• Do you mean that it burned off (because it stuck out from the heat shield and overheated)?
• Or do you mean that it snapped off from aerodynamic forces, because it was a deployable antenna that was left deployed?  (Note that shields protect things behind them from heat, but not from aero forces.)

If it's the former problem (overheating), that's easily fixable just by adjusting the location of the antenna to make sure it doesn't stick out.

If it's the latter problem (aero forces), then that's solvable, too.  Be aware that deployable antennas are fragile and will snap off during reentry if you leave them deployed.  So, what can you do?  Some options:

1. Use the Communotron 16-S antenna.  It's sturdy and non-deployable, so it won't snap off during reentry.  However, it's also a very short-range antenna, so if that's the only "live" antenna on the ship during reentry and landing, you'll need an orbiting relay satellite to talk to it because there's no way it'll talk all the way back to Kerbin.
2. Use one of the relay-dish antennas.  They're bulky and awkward and heavy... but they're non-deployable and can stand up to aero forces during reentry.
3. If you don't mind using mods, you could have a deployable antenna and use the AntennaSleep mod.  That mod allows you to retract an antenna temporarily for a specified period of time, after which it automatically re-deploys the antenna even without a comms connection.  So, with this technique, you would just "sleep" the antenna for, say, five or six minutes, right before hitting atmosphere.  Antenna retracts, probe turns into a doorstop, the dead probe goes through reentry and pops its chutes when it slows down enough... and then the antenna extends again and you're back in control.

Anyway, just some options. 

[Actually_New_KSP_Player]

3 minutes ago, Snark said:

Can you define "got destroyed"?  Specifically,

• Do you mean that it burned off (because it stuck out from the heat shield and overheated)?
• Or do you mean that it snapped off from aerodynamic forces, because it was a deployable antenna that was left deployed?  (Note that shields protect things behind them from heat, but not from aero forces.)

If it's the former problem (overheating), that's easily fixable just by adjusting the location of the antenna to make sure it doesn't stick out.

If it's the latter problem (aero forces), then that's solvable, too.  Be aware that deployable antennas are fragile and will snap off during reentry if you leave them deployed.  So, what can you do?  Some options:

1. Use the Communotron 16-S antenna.  It's sturdy and non-deployable, so it won't snap off during reentry.  However, it's also a very short-range antenna, so if that's the only "live" antenna on the ship during reentry and landing, you'll need an orbiting relay satellite to talk to it because there's no way it'll talk all the way back to Kerbin.
2. Use one of the relay-dish antennas.  They're bulky and awkward and heavy... but they're non-deployable and can stand up to aero forces during reentry.
3. If you don't mind using mods, you could have a deployable antenna and use the AntennaSleep mod.  That mod allows you to retract an antenna temporarily for a specified period of time, after which it automatically re-deploys the antenna even without a comms connection.  So, with this technique, you would just "sleep" the antenna for, say, five or six minutes, right before hitting atmosphere.  Antenna retracts, probe turns into a doorstop, the dead probe goes through reentry and pops its chutes when it slows down enough... and then the antenna extends again and you're back in control.

Anyway, just some options. 

Snapped off for sure. I didn't knew at this moment that shields do not protect it from air. Its a pretty old question, i just forgot to mark someone as best answer so you probably didn't notice. I made it so when i deploy my landing probe it leaves a relay orbiting the planet with powerful antenna so i have just enough distance even without the antenna on the probe itself.

[magnemoe]

Best is to have an relay in orbit, this can either be an mothership or an stage, you can burn to drop, release and then burn back to circulate then switch to lander. but its simpler to have mothership or stage put you in low eve orbit and use an small decent module for deorbit, this can be dropped later.