Dont Rage but.....Docking

[sonicskater34]

Ive been thinking yes i know that docking will be put in on its own but really, couldn't you just use parts that edit the ship file or whatever and move the said part from ship to docking port? ( i know its crude but at least it could work)

Please no rage I'm just thinking aloud.

[AeroPelican]

No. It is not possible.

RAAAAAAAAAGE!

[sonicskater34]

No. It is not possible.

RAAAAAAAAAGE!

ok then my next question is why not. And please don't dumb it down, i can figure out a technical explanation. Also an "I don't know" answer just shows that you just think its not possible and that it very well could be.

[nhnifong]

Should the remaining stages of the two parent craft be merged or stacked? in the case that they are stacked, which one is on top.?

I think answering this is up to the user and the craft design. So one challenge in making a docking mod, would be a dialog which asks them right before the craft is edited, or maybe having parts that do one or the other by default.

[nhnifong]

Also, if both craft have command pods, one of the command pods will have to be demoted to a non-command-pod type part. Or it would violate a core assumption (that there is one and only one command pod) and would likely create a ****storm of errors.

[nhnifong]

Ah, one more thing. debris probably won't remember it's staging informatoin. so you could only dock with debris and add it into your current latest stage.

Anyways, I think this is perfectly possible. I'm not a mod programmer though and I don't know what capabilities are currently exposed in the API

Sorry for not putting all these in the same post.

[sonicskater34]

Ah, one more thing. debris probably won't remember it's staging informatoin. so you could only dock with debris and add it into your current latest stage.

Anyways, I think this is perfectly possible. I'm not a mod programmer though and I don't know what capabilities are currently exposed in the API

Sorry for not putting all these in the same post.

No probs man, but there is an edit button anyway i meant say have a part with a special docking node attached and be able to make that docking node act like mechjeb as a "remote control" of sorts do its not turned into debris.

Of course this would only be temporary till docking is ACtUALLY put in.

EDIT\

To put it clearly mean effectively "teleport" the said modules from attachment node to another one on another ship.

[XilentDude]

Actually it is possible. If someone could make something like this http://imgur.com/a/squow#5. But not with mechanical claws. The docking module should be something like this :

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32266[/ATTACH] Click the photo ..

This should work.. The docking .. arms should work like legs and they should open with the contex menu ( if that is the name ) but not necessarily from the space station, it should be like the deployable ladder and a kerbal.

The photos from imgur are not mine .

Actually these are some kind of mechanical claws.. And they are closed.

Edit: if you want to transport the crew to the space station or whatever it is just use EVA and a crew tank.

Edited August 31, 2012 by XilentDude

[sonicskater34]

Yeah ives seen the imgur album before the problem this idea is supposed to solve is berthing, so actually adding modules 1 by 1 to a station, not just for crew transfers. i actually never thought that that would work but the question is then how, and if no one knows then where is the coding for the kerbals so we can make the ring base on it

'Edit

Ive also been trying to test a design for a remote manipulator system, or Kanadaarm if you will ( K syndromes fun ) It would at first be used to move kerbalnauts around the station or ship and also be used to assemble the station hopefully.

btw I'm planning on using damned robotics to power the arm.

Edit 2

I suppose a question is that if the persistence file will tolerate moving something from a node to another. i guess you just get to orbit and while ksps open(back up your persistence file) delete a part from a rocket check the rocket and if its gone without switching off the rocket go add the part back.

Edited August 31, 2012 by sonicskater34

[XilentDude]

I tried to dock last night reproducing the imgur docking module.. it worked.. somehow.. i actually broke the ship after i caught it ( after 1 hour of attempts ).

How i said earlier, the transfer is not necessarily.. just wait for official docking.

Ah.. if someone could make a plugin for assembling space stations in space it would spare me from the infernal frame drop and cheat parts.

[Bluekommeh]

I tried to dock last night reproducing the imgur docking module.. it worked.. somehow.. i actually broke the ship after i caught it ( after 1 hour of attempts ).

How i said earlier, the transfer is not necessarily.. just wait for official docking.

Ah.. if someone could make a plugin for assembling space stations in space it would spare me from the infernal frame drop and cheat parts.

There is the Orbital Construction mod, that works quite well.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/9283-0-16-0-Plugin-Orbital-Planetary-Construction-V9-3

[sonicskater34]

Yeah but what fun is that? some of us like me want a bigger more realistic challenge i mean I'm not saying your point isn't valid, but others may want to build something ISS-ish( or KSS if you apply K syndrome)

[Zool]

Ah, one more thing. debris probably won't remember it's staging informatoin. so you could only dock with debris and add it into your current latest stage.

Anyways, I think this is perfectly possible. I'm not a mod programmer though and I don't know what capabilities are currently exposed in the API

Sorry for not putting all these in the same post.

I've spent a good deal of time hacking around with vessel structure with the Escape Pod mod. Staging information is lost when part of the vessel becomes debris, but you can save the structure before hand then rebuild the stage list. What I couldn't figure out how to do was change the "rootpart" usually the command pod, unless it's debris, of the vessel while it's loaded. This is important because any docking mod is going to work by merging to vessels. It should be easy enough to do on unloaded vessels though, you could do it manually in the .sfs file.

[AeroPelican]

ok then my next question is why not. And please don't dumb it down, i can figure out a technical explanation. Also an "I don't know" answer just shows that you just think its not possible and that it very well could be.

The one thing people never do is USE THE SEARCH BAR.

[sonicskater34]

Ive posted an experiment on the previous page as to figure out if ksp will tolerate live .sfs editing but I'm thinking not. Another thought would be make the berthing system 1 way by using code based on the ladder and eva code. now what exactly that is, idk. btw actual tests show a candaarm can actually work even on the ground with a verbal on the end who won't let go.

EDIT: Ive tried the search bar and it is USELESS for finding the right things

in my opinion.

EDit 2: and if you mean suggesting docking again or implementing it while its already planned, tell it to the guy who made atmospheric engines and was before their respective actual releases.

Edited September 1, 2012 by sonicskater34

[sonicskater34]

Ive posted an experiment on the previous page as to figure out if ksp will tolerate live .sfs editing but I'm thinking not. Another thought would be make the berthing system 1 way by using code based on the ladder and eva code. now what exactly that is, idk. btw actual tests show a candaarm can actually work even on the ground with a kerbal on the end who won't let go.( with Damned Robotics of course

[Andorian Blues]

I've had a similar idea (as has at least one other person) and I am fairly certain it is possible from the brief experiments I've done. However you need to change a LOT of things for each part, you can't just copy-paste them from one vessel onto another. For example, take the following:

PART
	{
		name = sasModule
		uid = 4278143020
		[b]parent = 27[/b]
		[b]position = 2.68220901489258E-07,-5.31838607788086,-1.65385222434998[/b]
		[b]rotation = 0,-0.8660254,0,0.5[/b]
		mirror = 1,1,1
		[b]istg = 2[/b]
		[b]dstg = 4[/b]
		sqor = 2
		sidx = 20
		attm = 0
		sym = 16
		sym = 22
		[b]srfN = srfAttach, 23[/b]
		[b]attN = bottom, 24[/b]
		[b]attN = none, -1[/b]
		mass = 0.8
		temp = -168.5399
		expt = 0.5
		state = 1
		connected = True
		attached = True
	}

Every time a number of an adjacent part is referenced (parent, srfN, attN) it needs to be changed, as the number refers to where it is in the list of parts for the vessel. For example, if your vessel had three parts (0, 1, 2) and those were added to the end of a vessel with 5 parts (0, 1, 2, 3, 4), then the original three parts now have new numbers (5, 6, 7) and everything has to be updated to reflect that, and to define where the new parts connect to the old ones.

I haven't done any experiments with staging (istg and dstg), but it doesn't seem that difficult to work out. The worst are the positions and rotation values. Position is defined assuming the command module as being at the 0, 0, 0 point. So if you try and copy and paste parts from one vessel to another, it's likely that the parts will intersect and try to occupy the same space. With rotation, it's a similar problem, because in most docking scenarios you'll want the parts to face a different way than they did originally. That needs to be changed too.

Undocking would be even more complex, as you'd need to recreate the original vessel data somehow. Again, it's possible, but difficult.

As for editing persistent.sfs in game, it only works if you exit back to the space center view. Presumably plugins can't operate from the space center so the actual "docking" would have to be done using an external editor.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Andorian Blues

[Shortsonfire79]

Yeah but what fun is that? some of us like me want a bigger more realistic challenge i mean I'm not saying your point isn't valid, but others may want to build something ISS-ish( or KSS if you apply K syndrome)

What I've gone and done was build the station in its entirety then break it up and move it to orbit in pieces, then edit the persistence file. (I'm basically just pimping out my video all over the forum right now...) Editing the persistence file was the easiest part. You don't need to change any variables, just add on more parts. Just remember to change the crew number back to the original # so that you're not constantly switching crew around up there.

Imgur album

To combat having multiple CPs on your station, this is what I did: I started by completely(or getting close to finished) building the station in the VAB and SPH.

Then I pulled off all the modules that I wasn't sending up in this mission. (Keep note, this will be what the persistence file will be putting up after the rendezvous) Peel off the module that you're sending up this round. Then remove everything under/above the command module. I added an ASAS and Remotetech computer so that I could later deorbit the launch vehicle. Atop that, add the decoupler. Build the fairing shroud around it. Make sure your stages are set. Multiple times I've had this throw my launches off. Build the rest of the rocket. Remember to use fuel lines from the outer two stages! (like the Falcon 9 Heavy) Once you perform orbital "dock" go to the VAB and peel off all the modules that you haven't already sent up. Launch this craft, before PhysX hits it, go back to the space center and then edit the persistence file. Copy all the PARTS (not the entire ship) on the launch pad and replace the parts on the already orbiting ship with these. Delete the craft on the launch pad and the pieces you were adding to the ship in space. Then go back to space and deorbit the launch vehicle.

[RayneCloud]

*sighs* You guys just can't quit can you? Stop bringing up docking, it's not coming anytime soon. Thread Locked.