Deployed Science: A few basics

[MPDerksen]

I had a 3-slot container.  I placed it in a bay, and loaded with a solar panel, control unit and a Go-Ob, to complete a 50% mission on Mun.  I only had the single seat Command pod, so Jeb would deploy, knowing that my results would be slower.

1.  Low power!  Looks like I needed 2 solar units, one each for the control unit and the experiment?  Is this because I didn’t use an Engineer to deploy?

2.  There is also a deploy-able comm unit.  Is this required to get the data home from Mun?  My Tracking Station is level #2.  I’m not clear on when I will need that part.  It ALSO needs a Solar unit.

3.  Is there any downside to using the 2-seater lander can?  With a heat shield I can get home just fine, right?  This way, Jeb can be bringing some intelligent help with these deployments.  Otherwise, the larger, 3-seat command pod is going to be the way to go.

[Superfluous J]

8 minutes ago, MPDerksen said:

I had a 3-slot container.  I placed it in a bay, and loaded with a solar panel, control unit and a Go-Ob, to complete a 50% mission on Mun.  I only had the single seat Command pod, so Jeb would deploy, knowing that my results would be slower.

1.  Low power!  Looks like I needed 2 solar units, one each for the control unit and the experiment?  Is this because I didn’t use an Engineer to deploy?

Yes. The power generators make 1 power + 1 more if an engineer deployed it + more for that engineer's levels (I don't recall exactly)

8 minutes ago, MPDerksen said:

2.  There is also a deploy-able comm unit.  Is this required to get the data home from Mun?  My Tracking Station is level #2.  I’m not clear on when I will need that part.  It ALSO needs a Solar unit.

Yes, unless you brought a craft with you with a relay antenna. The control station has the same antenna that a probe core would have.

8 minutes ago, MPDerksen said:

3.  Is there any downside to using the 2-seater lander can?  With a heat shield I can get home just fine, right?  This way, Jeb can be bringing some intelligent help with these deployments.  Otherwise, the larger, 3-seat command pod is going to be the way to go.

 Other than being heavier and wider, no. Yeah you can use the lander can to re-enter no problem. Just make sure it's heavy toward the heat shield end.

I've found that 2 of the 3-box things are great for away missions. Take an antenna, base station, 2 solars, and the 2 experiments you get early on (goo and seismic) with a probe core and 2 Kerbals: A scientist and an engineer. If you're going all that way you may as well get the biggest bang for your buck.

[MPDerksen]

Thanks buddy!
I have CommNet green lines connecting my remote station with Kerbin, so it looks like I do NOT need the HG-48 (currently disconnected).  On the Control Station I read this:  “Comm First Hop DIst: 11.3Mm”.  Huh?
Oddly, my Go-ob Monitor shows 0.29% completed, but 0.00% transmitted.  I’m going to guess it works like the MPL and needs a full % before it sends anything.

I would LOVE to see a picture of the lander you describe above.  Given I have a Comm Signal: 0.99, I do wonder if that’s 99% and I wouldn’t need the HG-48 at all.  Regardless, I haven’t put a relay over Mun yet.  So far I have unlocked the HECS and the OKTO.  Once I go the backside of Mun, I’ll lose all control, right?  So I either need to send up a relay (I have both the RA-2 and the RA-15 unlocked in this career).

Thanks for the continued help.  This forum never makes me feel stupid.  The game does... but not the forum

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, MPDerksen said:

I would LOVE to see a picture of the lander you describe above.

Here it is. The parts are all stock (plus Making History and of course Breaking Ground) though they don't look it as I've got ReStock for all parts but the science ones. It's got a lot more power than you'd need because it's for JNSQ which has a larger Mun to land on, so it'll surely get the job done on the stock Mun.

Most of the stuff is tucked in that service bay that a lot of people think is useless including all science but the Jr., a battery, a reaction wheel, and an OKTO2 to drive. I may not even have an antenna on it but with all the relays I have in Mun orbit I probably didn't need one. If I did, it was likely just the simplest non-relay antenna.

My Minmus ship upgraded to the 6-item storage bay but was essentially the same ship. I think it was a bit smaller to account for Minmus being smaller.

Oh and the landing legs are each 2 hinges and a piston, that toggle between how you see them now and splayed out 60 degrees (with the feet rotated to aim perfectly downward) toggled by the G key. They're awesome, but have a lot of trouble on scene reloads.

Edited July 7, 2019 by 5thHorseman

[MPDerksen]

9 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Here it is. The parts are all stock (plus Making History and of course Breaking Ground) though they don't look it as I've got ReStock for all parts but the science ones. It's got a lot more power than you'd need because it's for JNSQ which has a larger Mun to land on, so it'll surely get the job done on the stock Mun.

Most of the stuff is tucked in that service bay that a lot of people think is useless including all science but the Jr., a battery, a reaction wheel, and an OKTO2 to drive. I may not even have an antenna on it but with all the relays I have in Mun orbit I probably didn't need one. If I did, it was likely just the simplest non-relay antenna.

My Minmus ship upgraded to the 6-item storage bay but was essentially the same ship. I think it was a bit smaller to account for Minmus being smaller.

Oh and the landing legs are each 2 hinges and a piston, that toggle between how you see them now and splayed out 60 degrees (with the feet rotated to aim perfectly downward) toggled by the G key. They're awesome, but have a lot of trouble on scene reloads.

Uhm, er, ah, okay!  That’s FAR more advanced than I was thinking... lol.  I just put a 3-man command pod on some fuel with a Terrier.  But I also didn’t have much science on it, since the 2 previous trips had transported it already.  I ha about the same dV, and brought all 3 Kerbals home with about 300 to spare.  I used a little for the end of setting up my transfer, then to circularize, land and return.  I was surprised how much it took just to lift off Mun.  FAR more than the 180 listed on the dV map.

[Superfluous J]

2 hours ago, MPDerksen said:

I was surprised how much it took just to lift off Mun.  FAR more than the 180 listed on the dV map.

Two things:

1) You barely need to burn up on airless bodies like Mun. Next time, F5 to quicksave and try tilting over immediately after you start burning, and burn as far sideways as you can to keep going up enough to clear any local terrain but otherwise burn entirely sideways. I say to quicksave first due to the very likely possibility that you'll crash into a mountain at several hundred meters per second without realizing it's going to happen.

2) 180 is Minmus' number. Mun is 580.

Edited July 7, 2019 by 5thHorseman

[Aegolius13]

17 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Yes, unless you brought a craft with you with a relay antenna. The control station has the same antenna that a probe core would have.

I'm still confused about this part, since a normal pod / probe core CANNOT transmit normal science results, even if you're in CommNet range.  Are we sure the deployed experiments work differently?

[Superfluous J]

Just now, Aegolius13 said:

I'm still confused about this part, since a normal pod / probe core CANNOT transmit normal science results, even if you're in CommNet range.  Are we sure the deployed experiments work differently?

Yes. I put a couple on the ground at KSC with just a controller and power and they transmitted their meager science returns with no issues.

If the antenna couldn't transmit science it'd be useless, as you can not fly them or attach them to a rocket

Edited July 7, 2019 by 5thHorseman

[Aegolius13]

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

Yes. I put a couple on the ground at KSC with just a controller and power and they transmitted their meager science returns with no issues.

If the antenna couldn't transmit science it'd be useless, as you can not fly them or attach them to a rocket

Cool, thanks!  I was thinking the same thing about the onboard antenna.  Doesn't entirely make sense that the regular and onboard experiments transmit differently, but KSP gonna KSP.

[Superfluous J]

Just now, Aegolius13 said:

Cool, thanks!  I was thinking the same thing about the onboard antenna.  Doesn't entirely make sense that the regular and onboard experiments transmit differently, but KSP gonna KSP.

Well they power entirely differently so hey

[MPDerksen]

5 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Two things:

1) You barely need to burn up on airless bodies like Mun. Next time, F5 to quicksave and try tilting over immediately after you start burning, and burn as far sideways as you can to keep going up enough to clear any local terrain but otherwise burn entirely sideways. I say to quicksave first due to the very likely possibility that you'll crash into a mountain at several hundred meters per second without realizing it's going to happen.

2) 180 is Minmus' number. Mun is 580.

1.  I timed my departure so I was right in line with the retrograde of Mun’s orbit so I didn’t have to circularize at all.  Up = escape.  I ended up a Kerbin Pe of around 4M.  Then burned retrograde to bring it down to 25k.  If I plan to orbit, I do just like you said, but not quite as bravely.....

2.  THAT fixes my math.  My lander design is perfect, then, for a few hops on Minmus.

thanks again for the help.

Michael

5 hours ago, Aegolius13 said:

I'm still confused about this part, since a normal pod / probe core CANNOT transmit normal science results, even if you're in CommNet range.  Are we sure the deployed experiments work differently?

I also confirmed that the Go-ob, control unit and a single power station can reach the data back to KSC from Mun without additional antennae.  Seems to be sending back 18 in a shot.