KSP 2 needs Space Telescopes and Fog of War in the map for Progression/Career mode

[shdwlrd]

When I first read the OP, I dismissed the idea thinking it wouldn't make good game play. But after reading some of the suggestions that were thrown out during the discussion, this mechanic could add some value to the progression/science mode. If the suggestions were added properly.

Edited October 1, 2019 by shdwlrd

[1of6Billion]

Off all the stuff human kind has send up there is a lot of Astronomy related hardware. I want to do Astronomy in KSP! I'm on board with this.

Edited October 1, 2019 by 1of6Billion
typo

[Terwin]

On 9/21/2019 at 12:14 AM, Brikoleur said:

Since the stars systems are the same for every game, this would just mean rote busywork. Fun the first time, tedious after that.

If you have to, just link discovery of the star systems to building upgrades you’d do anyway, like unowned object tracking.

Why would the star systems be the same for every game?

Even if you kept the systems themselves and the distances from Kerbol the same, you would still have  a lot of freedom in where they are by just changing which direction they are, and how far above(or below) the ecliptic they happen to be.

Then you get to decide the orientation of the star system, is  it mostly parallel(easy mode, giving lots of bodies to use for sling-shots), mostly perpendicular, or somewhere in between?

Finding planetary bodies around other stars is hardly something we were doing with Apollo, it requires long observations combined with a certain amount of luck(like planetary occlusions) and a lot of processing power.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Terwin said:

Why would the star systems be the same for every game?

I'm assuming that if KSP2 had procedurally generated star systems they would've advertised it by now. So I'm assuming the default, that just like the Kerbol system is the same for every game, so will neighbouring star systems.

[Terwin]

23 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

I'm assuming that if KSP2 had procedurally generated star systems they would've advertised it by now. So I'm assuming the default, that just like the Kerbol system is the same for every game, so will neighbouring star systems.

Even if the systems are made up of the same bodies and are the same distance from Kerbol, that does not mean that they need to be in the same place.

[shdwlrd]

23 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

I'm assuming that if KSP2 had procedurally generated star systems they would've advertised it by now.

Not necessarily, all the interviews with Nate Simpson about the new solar systems he's been tight lipped about the details of them. Only acknowledging the things seen in the material star theory has released so far. 

Odds are procedurally generated solar systems won't be included in stock KSP2, but with the lack of info, we can't say for sure.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Terwin said:

Even if the systems are made up of the same bodies and are the same distance from Kerbol, that does not mean that they need to be in the same place.

True, but it wouldn't really be enough to make discovering them a wortwhile activity. It would be fun the first time, a chore in every game after that. You would really need something new to discover every game for it to be fun.

[tater]

Not knowing what they would not know from the ground = good. Requiring space telescopes? Meh.

 

[Guest]

I don't think fog of war is necessary to make telescopes and such useful, I love the idea of having to discover and study the new stars, but even them being "only" scientific experiments would be some intresting gameplay,

 

[KeranoKerman]

Yes

[Incarnation of Chaos]

There could also be contacts to launch telescopes, service missions for ones already up there etc. If it's implemented correctly it will fit fairly smoothly into gameplay; the primary issue is KSP2 doesn't seem to be doing procedural systems so this is pretty much destined to become a mod.

[GoldForest]

Hmmm, how about this:

For Fog of War: 
-It's permanent: Outside the Kerbin solar system, you can't see anything. 
-You have to use telescopes to reveal a certain radius of the map, or you can have a ship coasting through interstellar space and able to see a few thousand to a few tens of thousand kilometers around itself. 

Telescopes:
-Telescopes reveal part of the map within a certain radius. The more powerful the telescope, the more powerful the map revealing is. 
-There are two types of telescopes. Colonial Observatories and Space Telescopes. 
--Colonial Observatories are part of a colony and can reveal the map out to a certain distance, but the draw back is they only reveal what they can see. So if you have a colony up against a mountain that blocks 6o degrees of view, that colony can only reveal the map 120 degrees from it's position. 
--Space Telescopes are, well, space telescopes, but suffer from the same drawback of something blocking their sight. 
-All Telescopes suffer from light pollution and atmospheric refraction. I.e. the higher the observatory, the better vision it has and thus more map can be revealed. 
--This also means that a space telescope will have to deal with the sun/star of a system and can't look within a certain degree of it or it stops working. 
-Telescopes suffer damage from light: This will only be if you're controlling the telescope and happen to look directly into a star. 
--Missions to repair the telescope will become a thing if the damage becomes too much. 
---Map reveal and telescope's ability to do science will be limited or not available based on the amount of damage done to the telescope's lens. 
----Distance from the star also plays a role, so if you're space telescope is around Kerbin, a moderate amount of damage will happen. If you're out near Eeloo, the damage will be light. 

[Incarnation of Chaos]

2 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Hmmm, how about this:

For Fog of War: 
-It's permanent: Outside the Kerbin solar system, you can't see anything. 
-You have to use telescopes to reveal a certain radius of the map, or you can have a ship coasting through interstellar space and able to see a few thousand to a few tens of thousand kilometers around itself. 

Telescopes:
-Telescopes reveal part of the map within a certain radius. The more powerful the telescope, the more powerful the map revealing is. 
-There are two types of telescopes. Colonial Observatories and Space Telescopes. 
--Colonial Observatories are part of a colony and can reveal the map out to a certain distance, but the draw back is they only reveal what they can see. So if you have a colony up against a mountain that blocks 6o degrees of view, that colony can only reveal the map 120 degrees from it's position. 
--Space Telescopes are, well, space telescopes, but suffer from the same drawback of something blocking their sight. 
-All Telescopes suffer from light pollution and atmospheric refraction. I.e. the higher the observatory, the better vision it has and thus more map can be revealed. 
--This also means that a space telescope will have to deal with the sun/star of a system and can't look within a certain degree of it or it stops working. 
-Telescopes suffer damage from light: This will only be if you're controlling the telescope and happen to look directly into a star. 
--Missions to repair the telescope will become a thing if the damage becomes too much. 
---Map reveal and telescope's ability to do science will be limited or not available based on the amount of damage done to the telescope's lens. 
----Distance from the star also plays a role, so if you're space telescope is around Kerbin, a moderate amount of damage will happen. If you're out near Eeloo, the damage will be light. 

I figured they would also be modular; so you could get contracts to add components or refit older ones.

[GoldForest]

1 minute ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

I figured they would also be modular; so you could get contracts to add components or refit older ones.

That could be added, yes. 

I mean, Hubble has been upgraded, or was being upgraded, multiple times. If the shuttle hadn't died, it would probably be getting new lenses and mirrors right about now. 

[Incarnation of Chaos]

Just now, GoldForest said:

That could be added, yes. 

I mean, Hubble has been upgraded, or was being upgraded, multiple times. If the shuttle hadn't died, it would probably be getting new lenses and mirrors right about now. 

It would've been reboosted by now at least; who knows what the future holds though. Starship may very well provide the capablity to service it again if everything goes to plan.

[GoldForest]

Anyway: 

Yeah, telescopes can have a lot of use in KSP 2, not only in terms of Fog of War, but contracts, science, and maybe a few other uses.