Space craft orientation at liftoff + Confusion

[Sitting Duck]

Can you good folks clarify this for me? This has vexed me from the very start.

During a build, I can only tell that crew cabin, etc, is "facing the wrong way". Is there a way to tell the ship's orientation with regard to launch, before I get it out to the launch pad? This is especially difficult with simple control modules rather than a crew cabin.

I get the feeling that the game was designed so that you would press keyboard keys in the same literal direction you want the ship to respond to, looking at the ship from the default view when you're brought to the launch pad (facing north): In this case you would press the right arrow (or D for right-handers?) to initiate a gravity turn/pitch east, etc.

I'm left-handed, and use the num-keypad keys for yaw, pitch, and roll. The method I'm comfortable with is pressing UP to pitch down / initiate and continue the turn. Hopefully this is clearer than mud.  If not, then I may have to post a pic tomorrow to elaborate.

Thanks!

[bewing]

1 hour ago, Sitting Duck said:

Is there a way to tell the ship's orientation with regard to launch, before I get it out to the launch pad?

Look out the door of the VAB from inside. You see the launchpad there in the distance? The game does not rotate your craft between the VAB and the pad.

However -- the rest of your comment talks about the control direction of the craft. The default control direction of the craft is based on the final orientation of the pod or probe core that controls the craft.

Specifically: if you put a probe core at the top of your rocket and leave it in the default orientation, then D is East on the pad. You can see this by looking at your navball. If, when you placed that probe core, you hit W twice before you actually put it down -- now the probe core is placed backwards and A is East, even if the rest of the rocket has not changed. If, when you place the probe core, you hit S twice -- now your probe core is upside down. All your controls will now be reversed, because everything is in the opposite direction.

Even more: if you build a default rocket, then grab the entire thing and hit W twice -- then every single control point on the rocket will be turned around backwards and A will be East on the pad because now your rocket itself is backwards. If you build a default rocket, separate the top half (with the pods and probe cores attached) and hit W twice and reattach it, then every single control point will be turned around backwards, even if half of your rocket is still pointed in the original direction.

So, you can always tell the orientation of the rocket as a whole before you launch. However, to tell the orientation of all the control points (pod and cores), you need to look at them very closely and you need to know which side of them is supposed to point north and south.

 

[VoidSquid]

1 hour ago, Sitting Duck said:

I get the feeling that the game was designed so that you would press keyboard keys in the same literal direction you want the ship to respond to

Hi there,

no, that's a misconception, the keys for rotation and translation always work relative to the orientation you can see in the navball.

[VoidSquid]

Don't know if this might be useful for you, but there's mod by @Snark that can change the default VAB orientation:

Naturally, this mod changes only the orientation of a craft in the VAB, it has nothing to do with steering your craft, that still is always relative to the navball orientation.

4 hours ago, bewing said:

you need to look at them very closely and you need to know which side of them is supposed to point north and south.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by switching the camera to the "locked" mode, iirc, the pov changes in a way that the rotational and translational keys are A for left, D for right, and so on.

Edited October 4, 2019 by VoidSquid

[bewing]

24 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

but by switching the camera to the "locked" mode, iirc, the pov changes in a way that the rotational and translational keys are A for left, D for right, and so on.

I was talking about inside the VAB. No camera modes there.

 

[VoidSquid]

True!

Edited October 4, 2019 by VoidSquid

[Sitting Duck]

Thanks very much everyone, that all clarifies things for me. I think I might try installing one of the suggested mods for this, or just adjust the probe core or capsule 90 degrees right away. It doesn't help that if you disconnect your build below the core or capsule that the lower part frustratingly rotates for no apparent reason from how I placed it.

I also noticed that when I launch from the other sites (Woomarang, for example) the view of the ship changes from that of the space center. I'll have to take a closer look at the orientation for that and adjust accordingly.

Anyway, thanks again!

[bewing]

44 minutes ago, Sitting Duck said:

It doesn't help that if you disconnect your build below the core or capsule that the lower part frustratingly rotates for no apparent reason from how I placed it.

It always rotates back to the default direction for the part that you detached.

[Sitting Duck]

1 hour ago, bewing said:

It always rotates back to the default direction for the part that you detached.

Yeah that was the only real explanation I could think of. And it's vexing. How many factories exist in the world where your product on the assembly line just whips around 90 degrees for no apparent reason?

But c'est la vie. Another quirk to work around in the name of building a glorious space program full of kerbals. In fact I think I have my answer right there, heh.

[Sitting Duck]

3 hours ago, bewing said:

It always rotates back to the default direction for the part that you detached.

I dug a little deeper into this.

1) For all of the probe cores, the manufacturer's part name always starts on the south-facing side. For lander cans and of course pods, it's the doorway. I should have seen this on the cores before.

2) If you rotate a vehicle or assembly with the core/pod attached, and then disconnect any part from that assembly, that part or set of parts will return to the previous orientation of the core/capsule once. If you then rotate the part(s) back, they will maintain that orientation even if you disconnect them again. Unless you move them and the core together, again. So attached parts seem to inherit the orientation of the core/pod, and don't re-inherit it if the core/pod are rotated.