Minimum tech level with first level vab to get to the mun.

[paul23]

Well as per title: what would be the minimum tech level to get to the Mun (flyby, or even land?) - while adhering to the 30 element limit. I've just unlocked basic science and general rocketry - would a swivel + fl-t200 be able to carry me there and back without going over the 30 part limit?

[Pecan]

The question is, how much of an answer do you want?

• Just the facts, ma'am - Yes, you can get to Mun and back using 30 of the parts you have
• Design hint - get creative with engines and staging
• Bit more - ask

Or I suppose I could do spoilers.  This'll do as a quick answer :-)

[paul23]

Well I was doubtful to post this either in the challenge or the question forum: Since I really wonder if it is possible (I haven't succeeded, with FAR). I felt uncomfortable to make this a challenge.

 

However I'd really love to see how people get there with just a swivel/thumb and 30 parts, since so far best I could get was to orbit with ~500 dV left, I *could* change the boosters to all thumb. However that would lower the center of gravity below center of pressure; and the fins give too little help per piece to keep the craft stable.

[Pecan]

Hint: You get the Reliant engine with General Rocketry.  I just tested from launch and closed orbit at 10km around Mun then returned with 500m/s dV left, using exactly 30 pieces.

Again, I'm not sure how much of how I did it you want to know and how much you want to work out for yourself.

[Pecan]

Those spoilers.

Assumed payload to be taken 'there and back': Mk1 Command Pod, Mk16 Parachute - both from tech tree Start node.  Underneath, TD-12 Decoupler from Engineering 101.

Engines & Staging

Spoiler

Although the reliant engine is less efficient in space (310 vac ISP v 320 for the swivel) its reduced mass more than makes up for that on a trip to Mun and back.  Split the fuel between this Mun-and-back stage (with the payload on top) and another, launch stage below.

A single engine can't lift everything required so build the launch stage as three stacks of fuel tanks, the central one being fitted to another TD-12 Decoupler below the upper-stage Reliant engine).  Attach the two outer stacks of tanks to the lower central stage just by sticking them on the side with symmetry - no decouplers or anything.  Put a Swivel engine under each of these outer stacks (but not on the central one).  The gimballing of the 2 Swivels, and the drag from the triple stacks at the rear of the ship (plus the fact that we haven't got nosecones to put on them) is enough to keep the thing pointing the right way so you don't need fins and can use the extra part-count for more fuel tanks.

My Tested Design (which is not the only way it could be done but is the only one I tested)
All parts from tech tree nodes: Start (command pod & parachute), Engineering 101 (TD-12 Decoupler), Basic Rocketry (Swivel), General Rocketry (FL-T200 fuel tanks, LV-T30 Reliant engine)

Spoiler

From the top

> Stage 0
MK16 Parachute
MK1 Command Pod
> Stage 1
TD-12 Decoupler
> Stage 2
9 x FL-T200 fuel tanks
1 x LV-T30 Reliant engine
1 x TD-12 Decoupler
> Stage 3
4 x FL-T200 fuel tanks central stack
>> 2 x Radially-attached side-stacks
5 x Fl-T200 fuel tanks
1 x LV-T45 Swivel engine

Launch mass 31.105t, 30 parts.  TWR (Kerbin) 1.41, 5,866m/s dV (vac).
From the Community Delta-V Map the design target was (launch) 3,400m/s plus 'there' 860m/s + 310m/s (1,170m/s) to transfer and close orbit plus 'back again', another 1,170m/s = 5,740m/s
Test mission: Launch from KSC to circular 75km Kerbin orbit.  Hohmann transfer to circular 10km Mun orbit.  Escape Mun, adjust Kerbin Periapsis to 35km.  Fall down, try to remember the parachute.

If it still doesn't work, blame it on FAR, which you didn't mention in the OP *grin*

Edited October 9, 2019 by Pecan

[Superfluous J]

There are multiple challenges involving not upgrading the VAB or launchpad and getting to Mun and further.

I've personally gone to both Mun and Minmus under 30 parts and 18 tons. Others have gone to Duna and beyond. There's a current attempt on these very forums to perform a Jool 5 under that constraint. Hint: They're doing a LOT of launches.

[Pecan]

54 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Hint: They're doing a LOT of launches.

Docking ports or claw not available at the tech level given for this.

Instead I've tried to give a pretty straightforward 2-stage vehicle that's easy to build.

Edit: Haha, I've just remembered I designed the winning ship in a 'lightest to Mun landing' challenge years ago.  I wasn't a good enough pilot to land the thing though, so another person did that, with my blessing.  Jet launched, ion engined, seat not pod.  Obviously parts not available at this tech either.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Pecan

[paul23]

Hmm I notice that I need roughly 3900-4000 dV to get into orbit. I'm basically wondering if I should first use the money to upgrade the tracking station (for nodes) or the vab.

[Pecan]

3 hours ago, paul23 said:

Hmm I notice that I need roughly 3900-4000 dV to get into orbit. I'm basically wondering if I should first use the money to upgrade the tracking station (for nodes) or the vab.

I'd never play the game without maneuver nodes so I'd say don't do career mode until you're comfortable with all the different parts, options and operations.  To me it seems much harder than it needs to be to a) learn rocket science, b) while trying to earn money & reputation from c) overly difficult or specific contracts with very odd functional limits set by d) the ridiculous tech tree (is a ladder still level 5 tech?)

So unless you're really invested in a career game I'd recommend abandoning it and switching to sandbox, unless you just can't cope with all the different parts, in which case face the horror of the tech tree in science mode, without all the other career complications.  You might want to practice different gravity turns as well, to see how you can reduce the dV to orbit.

[paul23]

I'm not really looking to learn it.....

 

Between usi, far, dre kct and putting all stats in carreer mode at 10% I'm already making it myself a bit harder. If everything is unlocked it's really easy.