[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[lewisd]

Has anything changed in FAR recently (or maybe with 0.24?) that makes planes more fragile? I have a fair size MK2 body plane with 2 B9 Sabre M engines, I hit 200m/s by the end of the runway, 250ish after liftoff, then when I roll to the right, and pull up even a little bit, the whole plane comes apart in the air. I even have a bunch of struts on it. It's something that looks like it would have flown fine before.

[AndreyATGB]

Well that's pretty much expected when you're almost supersonic at sea level.

[thorfinn]

I'ma testin' too!

Initial Results: The delta-wing turbo goes about mach 1.65 down at 300m (0.93+ atmospheres). It's not entering orbit on air breathers alone. UI seems much improved.

That's a bit faster than 0.13.x FAR, but only a bit. (it's quite a bit faster than stock, but stock atmosphere is as I said, a strange sort of transparent liquid lead)

The rapier goes about mach 1.22-ish in the same conditions. That seems good.

Great, as long as making orbit on jets + rockets is still possible, I'm happy (wouldn't really like to HAVE to use the Rapier to do SSTO)

[steve_v]

A minor quible I know, but setting FAR to use blizzy's toolbar plugin results in:

"[Toolbar] [ERROR] button texture not found: FerramAerospaceResearch/Textures/icon_button" - suspect it should be loading 'icon_button_blizzy'

This only occurs in the hangar, flight scene is fine.

On a side note, the negative thrust thing is pretty confusing IMHO, had me scrambling over here looking for bugs.

I'm trying hard not to whine about the jet nerf yet... lets just see how it goes after rebuilding my pretty planes ;-)

[uraa]

I am also having this error when going from VAB/SPH to Flight (stock KSP 0.24.2 (both 32 and 64), FAR 0.14.1.1 and ModuleManager 2.2.0)

As far as I noticed, this error is showing up for every part that don't have FARControllableSurface or FARWingAerodynamicModel module.

From KSP.log

[LOG 12:25:27.381] ------------------- initializing flight mode... ------------------
[LOG 12:25:27.386] Loading ship from file: C:/Games/KSP_024/KSP_Data/../saves/testSandbox_2/Ships/VAB/Auto-Saved Ship.craft
[WRN 12:25:27.414] [Part]: PartModule FARBasicDragModel at mk1pod, index 7: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.
Looking for FARBasicDragModel in other indices...
[ERR 12:25:27.416] ...no FARBasicDragModel module found on part definition. Skipping...
[WRN 12:25:27.423] [Part]: PartModule FARBasicDragModel at fuelTank, index 0: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.
Looking for FARBasicDragModel in other indices...
[ERR 12:25:27.425] ...no FARBasicDragModel module found on part definition. Skipping...
[LOG 12:25:27.453] Untitled Space Craft loaded!
[LOG 12:25:31.978] putting ship to ground: 7.121843

------------------- initializing flight mode... ------------------

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Loading ship from file: C:/Games/KSP_024/KSP_Data/../saves/testSandbox_2/Ships/VAB/Auto-Saved Ship.craft

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

[Part]: PartModule FARBasicDragModel at mk1pod, index 7: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.

Looking for FARBasicDragModel in other indices...

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

...no FARBasicDragModel module found on part definition. Skipping...

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

[Part]: PartModule FARBasicDragModel at fuelTank, index 0: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.

Looking for FARBasicDragModel in other indices...

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

...no FARBasicDragModel module found on part definition. Skipping...

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Untitled Space Craft loaded!

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

putting ship to ground: 7.121843

ship = Untitled Space Craft
version = 0.24.2
description =
type = VAB
PART
{
part = mk1pod_4294783888
partName = Part
pos = 0,10,0
rot = 0,0,0,1
attRot = 0,0,0,1
mir = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sidx = -1
sqor = -1
attm = 0
modCost = 0
link = fuelTank_4294779330
attN = bottom,fuelTank_4294779330
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleCommand
isEnabled = True
controlSrcStatusText =
EVENTS
{
MakeReference
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Control From Here
guiName = Control From Here
category = Control From Here
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
RenameVessel
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Rename Vessel
guiName = Rename Vessel
category = Rename Vessel
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleSAS
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleReactionWheel
isEnabled = True
stateString =
WheelState = Active
EVENTS
{
OnToggle
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Toggle Torque
guiName = Toggle Torque
category = Toggle Torque
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
Activate
{
actionGroup = None
}
Deactivate
{
actionGroup = None
}
Toggle
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleScienceExperiment
isEnabled = True
Deployed = False
Inoperable = False
EVENTS
{
DeployExperiment
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deploy
guiName = Deploy
category = Deploy
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
CollectDataExternalEvent
{
active = True
guiActive = False
guiIcon =
guiName =
category =
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 1.5
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ReviewDataEvent
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Review Data
guiName = Review Data
category = Review Data
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ResetExperiment
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Reset
guiName = Reset
category = Reset
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ResetExperimentExternal
{
active = True
guiActive = False
guiIcon = Reset
guiName = Reset
category = Reset
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
DeployAction
{
actionGroup = None
}
ResetAction
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleScienceContainer
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
StoreDataExternalEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = False
guiIcon =
guiName = Store Experiments (0)
category =
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 1.3
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
CollectDataExternalEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = False
guiIcon =
guiName = Take Data (0)
category =
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 1.3
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ReviewDataEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Review Data
guiName = Review Stored Data (0)
category = Review Data
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = FlagDecal
isEnabled = True
flagDisplayed = True
EVENTS
{
ToggleFlag
{
active = True
guiActive = False
guiActiveEditor = True
guiIcon = ToggleFlag
guiName = ToggleFlag
category = ToggleFlag
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleTripLogger
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
Surfaced
{
}
Flew
{
}
FlewBy
{
}
Orbited
{
}
SubOrbited
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = FARBasicDragModel
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
RESOURCE
{
name = ElectricCharge
amount = 50
maxAmount = 50
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
RESOURCE
{
name = MonoPropellant
amount = 10
maxAmount = 10
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
}
PART
{
part = fuelTank_4294779330
partName = Part
pos = 0,8.629272,0
rot = 0,0,0,1
attRot = 0,0,0,1
mir = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sidx = -1
sqor = -1
attm = 0
modCost = 0
link = sweptWing_4294777468
link = sweptWing_4294777390
link = R8winglet_4294776428
link = R8winglet_4294776318
attN = top,mk1pod_4294783888
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARBasicDragModel
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
RESOURCE
{
name = LiquidFuel
amount = 180
maxAmount = 180
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
RESOURCE
{
name = Oxidizer
amount = 220
maxAmount = 220
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
}
PART
{
part = sweptWing_4294777468
partName = Part
pos = -0.6209447,8.641566,3.701119E-08
rot = 0,1,0,0
attRot = 0,0,0,1
mir = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sidx = -1
sqor = -1
attm = 1
modCost = 0
sym = sweptWing_4294777390
srfN = srfAttach,fuelTank_4294779330
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
}
PART
{
part = sweptWing_4294777390
partName = Part
pos = 0.6209447,8.641566,-9.129591E-08
rot = 0,-4.371139E-08,0,-1
attRot = 0,0,0,1
mir = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sidx = -1
sqor = -1
attm = 1
modCost = 0
sym = sweptWing_4294777468
srfN = srfAttach,fuelTank_4294779330
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
}
PART
{
part = R8winglet_4294776428
partName = Part
pos = -8.634211E-08,8.457874,-1.159627
rot = 0,0.7071068,0,-0.7071069
attRot = 0,0,0,1
mir = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sidx = -1
sqor = -1
attm = 1
modCost = 0
sym = R8winglet_4294776318
srfN = srfAttach,fuelTank_4294779330
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARControllableSurface
isEnabled = True
pitchaxis = True
yawaxis = True
rollaxis = True
isFlap = False
isSpoiler = False
flapDeflectionLevel = 2
maxdeflect = 15
maxdeflectFlap = 15
pitchaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
yawaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
rollaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isSpoiler_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
maxdeflect_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -15
maxValue = 30
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
maxdeflectFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -30
maxValue = 85
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
EVENTS
{
DeflectMore
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect more
guiName = Deflect more
category = Deflect more
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
DeflectLess
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect less
guiName = Deflect less
category = Deflect less
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
ActivateSpoiler
{
actionGroup = Brakes
}
IncreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
DecreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
}
PART
{
part = R8winglet_4294776318
partName = Part
pos = 1.8772E-07,8.457874,1.159627
rot = 0,-0.7071069,0,-0.7071067
attRot = 0,0,0,1
mir = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sidx = -1
sqor = -1
attm = 1
modCost = 0
sym = R8winglet_4294776428
srfN = srfAttach,fuelTank_4294779330
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARControllableSurface
isEnabled = True
pitchaxis = True
yawaxis = True
rollaxis = True
isFlap = False
isSpoiler = False
flapDeflectionLevel = 2
maxdeflect = 15
maxdeflectFlap = 15
pitchaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
yawaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
rollaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isSpoiler_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
maxdeflect_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -15
maxValue = 30
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
maxdeflectFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -30
maxValue = 85
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
EVENTS
{
DeflectMore
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect more
guiName = Deflect more
category = Deflect more
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
DeflectLess
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect less
guiName = Deflect less
category = Deflect less
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
ActivateSpoiler
{
actionGroup = Brakes
}
IncreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
DecreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
}

VESSEL
{
pid = 37fa1fcedc0147a8bba14b19c6093baf
name = Untitled Space Craft
type = Ship
sit = PRELAUNCH
landed = True
landedAt = LaunchPad
splashed = False
met = 0
lct = 21.1199999999997
root = 0
lat = -0.0972077841401799
lon = 285.442325450471
alt = 75.3213527485495
hgt = 2.878156
nrm = 0.0007455449,0.9999998,2.972659E-08
rot = -0.7009888,-0.09221786,-0.09726539,0.7004642
CoM = -1.134578E-07,-1.228642,2.758706E-07
stg = 1
prst = False
ref = 1254853152
ctrl = True
cPch = 0.2
cHdg = 0.3
cMod = 0
ORBIT
{
SMA = 300815.742829464
ECC = 0.994822767774395
INC = 0.0972077846880631
LPE = 90.0000000000001
LAN = 105.794660306439
MNA = 3.14159265358979
EPH = 21.1199999999997
REF = 1
}
PART
{
name = mk1pod
uid = 1254853152
mid = 1293825375
launchID = 1
parent = 0
position = 0,0,0
rotation = 0,0,0,1
mirror = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sqor = -1
sidx = -1
attm = 0
srfN = None, -1
attN = bottom, 1
attN = None, -1
mass = 0.8
temp = 18.54034
expt = 0.5
state = 0
connected = True
attached = True
flag = Squad/Flags/default
rTrf = mk1pod
modCost = 0
crew = Jebediah Kerman
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleCommand
isEnabled = True
controlSrcStatusText = Operational
EVENTS
{
MakeReference
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Control From Here
guiName = Control From Here
category = Control From Here
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
RenameVessel
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Rename Vessel
guiName = Rename Vessel
category = Rename Vessel
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleSAS
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleReactionWheel
isEnabled = True
stateString = Operational
WheelState = Active
EVENTS
{
OnToggle
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Toggle Torque
guiName = Toggle Torque
category = Toggle Torque
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
Activate
{
actionGroup = None
}
Deactivate
{
actionGroup = None
}
Toggle
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleScienceExperiment
isEnabled = True
Deployed = False
Inoperable = False
EVENTS
{
DeployExperiment
{
active = True
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deploy
guiName = Crew Report
category = Deploy
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
CollectDataExternalEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = False
guiIcon =
guiName = Take Data
category =
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 1.5
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ReviewDataEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Review Data
guiName = Review Report
category = Review Data
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ResetExperiment
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Reset
guiName = Discard Crew Report
category = Reset
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ResetExperimentExternal
{
active = False
guiActive = False
guiIcon = Reset
guiName = Discard Crew Report
category = Reset
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 1.5
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
DeployAction
{
actionGroup = None
}
ResetAction
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleScienceContainer
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
StoreDataExternalEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = False
guiIcon =
guiName = Store Experiments (0)
category =
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 1.3
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
CollectDataExternalEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = False
guiIcon =
guiName = Take Data (0)
category =
guiActiveUnfocused = True
unfocusedRange = 1.3
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
ReviewDataEvent
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Review Data
guiName = Review Stored Data (0)
category = Review Data
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = FlagDecal
isEnabled = True
flagDisplayed = True
EVENTS
{
ToggleFlag
{
active = True
guiActive = False
guiActiveEditor = True
guiIcon = ToggleFlag
guiName = ToggleFlag
category = ToggleFlag
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleTripLogger
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
Surfaced
{
}
Flew
{
}
FlewBy
{
}
Orbited
{
}
SubOrbited
{
}
}
RESOURCE
{
name = ElectricCharge
amount = 50
maxAmount = 50
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
RESOURCE
{
name = MonoPropellant
amount = 10
maxAmount = 10
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
}
PART
{
name = fuelTank
uid = 4050019027
mid = 1293825375
launchID = 1
parent = 0
position = 0,-1.3707275390625,0
rotation = 0,0,0,1
mirror = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sqor = -1
sidx = -1
attm = 0
srfN = None, -1
attN = top, 0
attN = None, -1
mass = 0.25
temp = 18.56844
expt = 0.5
state = 0
connected = True
attached = True
flag = Squad/Flags/default
rTrf = fuelTank
modCost = 0
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
RESOURCE
{
name = LiquidFuel
amount = 180
maxAmount = 180
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
RESOURCE
{
name = Oxidizer
amount = 220
maxAmount = 220
flowState = True
isTweakable = True
hideFlow = False
flowMode = Both
}
}
PART
{
name = sweptWing
uid = 2939895830
mid = 1293825375
launchID = 1
parent = 1
position = -0.620944678783417,-1.35843372344971,3.70111905567683E-08
rotation = 0,1,0,0
mirror = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sqor = -1
sidx = -1
attm = 1
sym = 3
srfN = srfAttach, 1
mass = 0.05
temp = 18.54384
expt = 0.1
state = 0
connected = True
attached = True
flag = Squad/Flags/default
rTrf = sweptWing
modCost = 0
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
}
PART
{
name = sweptWing
uid = 2685595539
mid = 1293825375
launchID = 1
parent = 1
position = 0.620944678783417,-1.35843372344971,-9.12959094989674E-08
rotation = 0,-4.371139E-08,0,-1
mirror = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sqor = -1
sidx = -1
attm = 1
sym = 2
srfN = srfAttach, 1
mass = 0.05
temp = 18.54182
expt = 0.1
state = 0
connected = True
attached = True
flag = Squad/Flags/default
rTrf = sweptWing
modCost = 0
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
isEnabled = True
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
}
}
PART
{
name = R8winglet
uid = 3038880095
mid = 1293825375
launchID = 1
parent = 1
position = -8.63421121266583E-08,-1.5421257019043,-1.15962696075439
rotation = 0,0.7071068,0,-0.7071068
mirror = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sqor = -1
sidx = -1
attm = 1
sym = 5
srfN = srfAttach, 1
mass = 0.02
temp = 18.54136
expt = 0.1
state = 0
connected = True
attached = True
flag = Squad/Flags/default
rTrf = R8winglet
modCost = 0
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARControllableSurface
isEnabled = True
pitchaxis = True
yawaxis = True
rollaxis = True
isFlap = False
isSpoiler = False
flapDeflectionLevel = 2
maxdeflect = 15
maxdeflectFlap = 15
pitchaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
yawaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
rollaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isSpoiler_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
maxdeflect_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -15
maxValue = 30
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
maxdeflectFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -30
maxValue = 85
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
EVENTS
{
DeflectMore
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect more
guiName = Deflect more
category = Deflect more
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
DeflectLess
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect less
guiName = Deflect less
category = Deflect less
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
ActivateSpoiler
{
actionGroup = Brakes
}
IncreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
DecreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
}
PART
{
name = R8winglet
uid = 4001293472
mid = 1293825375
launchID = 1
parent = 1
position = 1.87720004873881E-07,-1.5421257019043,1.15962696075439
rotation = 0,-0.7071069,0,-0.7071067
mirror = 1,1,1
istg = 0
dstg = 0
sqor = -1
sidx = -1
attm = 1
sym = 4
srfN = srfAttach, 1
mass = 0.02
temp = 18.5395
expt = 0.1
state = 0
connected = True
attached = True
flag = Squad/Flags/default
rTrf = R8winglet
modCost = 0
EVENTS
{
}
ACTIONS
{
}
MODULE
{
name = FARControllableSurface
isEnabled = True
pitchaxis = True
yawaxis = True
rollaxis = True
isFlap = False
isSpoiler = False
flapDeflectionLevel = 2
maxdeflect = 15
maxdeflectFlap = 15
pitchaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
yawaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
rollaxis_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
isSpoiler_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
}
maxdeflect_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -15
maxValue = 30
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
maxdeflectFlap_UIEditor
{
controlEnabled = True
minValue = -30
maxValue = 85
stepIncrement = 0.5
}
EVENTS
{
DeflectMore
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect more
guiName = Deflect more
category = Deflect more
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
DeflectLess
{
active = False
guiActive = True
guiIcon = Deflect less
guiName = Deflect less
category = Deflect less
guiActiveUnfocused = False
unfocusedRange = 2
externalToEVAOnly = True
}
}
ACTIONS
{
ActivateSpoiler
{
actionGroup = Brakes
}
IncreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
DecreaseDeflect
{
actionGroup = None
}
}
}
}
ACTIONGROUPS
{
Stage = False, 0
Gear = True, 0
Light = False, 0
RCS = False, 0
SAS = False, 0
Brakes = False, 0
Abort = False, 0
Custom01 = False, 0
Custom02 = False, 0
Custom03 = False, 0
Custom04 = False, 0
Custom05 = False, 0
Custom06 = False, 0
Custom07 = False, 0
Custom08 = False, 0
Custom09 = False, 0
Custom10 = False, 0
}
DISCOVERY
{
state = -1
lastObservedTime = 0
lifetime = Infinity
refTime = Infinity
size = 2
}
FLIGHTPLAN
{
}
CTRLSTATE
{
pitch = 0
yaw = 0
roll = 0
trimPitch = 0
trimYaw = 0
trimRoll = 0
mainThrottle = 0
}
}

[Tsuki]

Question about aerodynamic failures, I like the feature however how do i go about to make wings more robust?

Struts do not seam to help much, and i cannot pull much more than few Gs, i mean some RL planes can pull way more than 10Gs before breaking.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Question about aerodynamic failures, I like the feature however how do i go about to make wings more robust?

Struts do not seam to help much, and i cannot pull much more than few Gs, i mean some RL planes can pull way more than 10Gs before breaking.

What speed are you going when you break up? Yes most planes can withstand high G-force, but not at Mach 1+.

[taniwha]

Tsuki: those planes pulling 10+g are fairly light When you thinking about it, that's 10x the normal weight of the plane bearing down on the wings. For a normally 10t plane, that's 100t on the wings. Ouch.

I've pulled 10+g no trouble with recent FAR... in a small (< 10t) plane.

[thorfinn]

Yes most planes can withstand high G-force, but not at Mach 1+.

But that's because they stall, not because they break up...

[Hodo]

Question about aerodynamic failures, I like the feature however how do i go about to make wings more robust?

Struts do not seam to help much, and i cannot pull much more than few Gs, i mean some RL planes can pull way more than 10Gs before breaking.

What speed are you going when you break up? Yes most planes can withstand high G-force, but not at Mach 1+.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I have built a craft that works in FAR that can pull 10.5Gs at supersonic speeds. I was working on a new strut setup. Still testing it but when I get it perfect I will will post the design setup. Right now I will give you a tip, look at real wing structure.

I was also testing out some new concepts to me. Like leading edge wing slats. They actually worked quite well on that aircraft, reduced its take off speed to less than 200mph and its landing speed is 165mph. Also lets it pull off some stupid high G turns when subsonic, 15Gs as in that one picture.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Hodo

[LostOblivion]

I'm also getting some weird errors when loading a craft ("filename" lines omitted):

------------------- initializing flight mode... ------------------ 
Target vessel index: 94  vessel count: 105

[FLIGHT GLOBALS]: Switching To Vessel Münar Space Station ---------------------- 

setting new dominant body: the Mun
FlightGlobals.mainBody: the Mun

Reference Frame: Rotating

[Part]: PartModule indexing mismatch at dockingPort2, index 1.
Node 'ModuleDockingNodeNamed' found in loaded data, but 'ModuleStagingToggle' is defined in prefab.
Looking for ModuleDockingNodeNamed in other indices...

...no ModuleDockingNodeNamed module found on part definition. Skipping...

PartModule is null.

[Part]: PartModule ModuleAeroReentry at dockingPort2, index 3: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.
Looking for ModuleAeroReentry in other indices...

...no ModuleAeroReentry module found on part definition. Skipping...

PartModule is null.

[Part]: PartModule FARBasicDragModel at dockingPort2, index 3: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.
Looking for FARBasicDragModel in other indices...

...no FARBasicDragModel module found on part definition. Skipping...

PartModule is null.

It's from loading a 0.23.5 craft orbiting the mun. Everything lags down completely getting a frame every 1 minute or so.

I had issues with something similar earlier, but I was sure it was because of the "serious" bug Squad fixed in 0.24.1.

[Renegrade]

Great, as long as making orbit on jets + rockets is still possible, I'm happy (wouldn't really like to HAVE to use the Rapier to do SSTO)

If you go back, you'll see I have a shot of a simple jet+rocket SSTO spaceplane with the fully nerfed engines in orbit.. two turbojets, one aerospike (could definitely swap the aerospike out too, if you're careful about tailstrikes, or use small engines if the design goal isn't to orbit the Mun )...

With the 0.14.1.1 adjustment, should be even easier.

I am also having this error when going from VAB/SPH to Flight (stock KSP 0.24.2 (both 32 and 64), FAR 0.14.1.1 and ModuleManager 2.2.0)

As far as I noticed, this error is showing up for every part that don't have FARControllableSurface or FARWingAerodynamicModel module.

I think that's the same error message I was getting, Ferram said those are basically just debug messages and not actually harmful. There's limitations in the logging API that result in them being recorded..

[ferram4]

@uraa: Those are "errorss" printed by the stock game because of how it handles PartModule loading. Perfectly fine and expected.

@LostOblivion: Given the PartModule loading / saving fiasco, I think it would be best to consider everything pre-0.24 to be scrap. Although the thing is, what you posted would only be called at the very beginning of the game loading, which means you didn't post the error (if there was any). Post an full copy of your output_log.txt.

[uraa]

Ok, thanks.

[Kniben]

I just want to share with you some images of a plane i built using stock parts (yea the big tank is actually from KW rocketry) + the mechjeb case. I'm running the latest FAR 14.1.1 having the plane glide 28k kilometers horizontally from 260 m/s to 58 m/s.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The reason I show you this is because i feel the drag using FAR is being unrealistically low at low speeds it may not seem that much of a big deal looking at the images, but flying it in game feels very awkward. If you ever lately have attempted to land a plane using the newer versions of FAR, you would know what I'm talking about. Throttle has to be cut completely and you would need to give your plane alot of time to just slow down.

Drag seems to drop out too much at about below 250 m/s, from what I've been experiencing. And since the plane is gliding, this has nothing to do with thrust from the engine.

I hope you take this as constructive critizism from a game-play point of view. I mean not to claim I am right about how the drag in FAR behaves, I just feel that the planes I build do not behave like I would expect them to. I'm basing this "feel" of the little I have played flight sims and also the fact that airliners do not completely cut their throttle when landing.

Thank you for all the hard work that has been put into this mod! It makes KSP so much better, and I wish only to help you improve it!

[Hodo]

@Kniben, you basically built a paper airplane. It is more wing then mass so it is going to have a REALLY slow stall speed.

And 58m/s isn't really slow, it is about 129-130mph, and that is faster then a Piper Cubs stall speed or even a Bf109F4 for that matter.

My craft I posted on the last page, lands at 160mph which is about 65-75m/s, and it is one giant lifting surface.

Lets take a F-16C for example. It lands at 120-170knts depending on load, which comes out to 60-87m/s.

[Kniben]

@Kniben, you basically built a paper airplane. It is more wing then mass so it is going to have a REALLY slow stall speed.

And 58m/s isn't really slow, it is about 129-130mph, and that is faster then a Piper Cubs stall speed or even a Bf109F4 for that matter.

My craft I posted on the last page, lands at 160mph which is about 65-75m/s, and it is one giant lifting surface.

Lets take a F-16C for example. It lands at 120-170knts depending on load, which comes out to 60-87m/s.

I'm not talking about stall speed, I'm talking about drag. The speed at which the plane stalls has nothing to do with it. Sure, it would travel a bit further with a lower stall speed...

With no drag, the plane would glide forever. With high drag the plane would slow down fast (and eventually stall).

Edited July 26, 2014 by Kniben

[Hodo]

I'm not talking about stall speed, I'm talking about drag. The speed at which the plane stalls has nothing to do with it. Sure, it would travel a bit further with a lower stall speed...

With no drag, the plane would glide forever. With high drag the plane would slow down fast (and eventually stall).

Have you looked at your crafts drag information? The Cd, and drag on each part as it flies through the air. I wouldn't be surprised if it is REAL low, because that is a really aerodynamic shaped craft.

[NoClass]

I mean not to claim I am right about how the drag in FAR behaves, I just feel that the planes I build do not behave like I would expect them to. I'm basing this "feel" of the little I have played flight sims and also the fact that airliners do not completely cut their throttle when landing.

Thank you for all the hard work that has been put into this mod! It makes KSP so much better, and I wish only to help you improve it!

Honestly, I've had the same "feel" as well when playing with FAR. Specifically, that something is off in the way drag is handled at relatively low speeds and high AoA. It "feels" like aircraft take a very long time to slow down to glide speeds after the engine is cut, even with spoilers and speed brakes.

I won't tell you our feelings are wrong (Ferram will tell you that, though. He's a true engineer!), but I can posit some reasons why our feelings are wrong:

-We're not used to aircraft designed for low drag and high TWRs. Many real world aircraft don't fly more than 1.5-3 times faster than their stall speeds, so an aircraft aerodynamically designed for high-speed/low-drag may indeed take a long time to get down to a slow flight regime. Does anyone know how long it takes an F-16 to get down to stall speed after cutting the engine in level flight?

-The glide ratios and stall speeds of aircraft designed in FAR/KSP seem normal (at least to me, and I think you agree). This is hardly proof, but it would be very hard for FAR to be right about all the L/D derived slow flight numbers, but wrong about how low speed drag works in general.

-I've noticed that bad installs of FAR after a KSP change can magnify this "feel." Everything will look to be normal, but some part of the drag model is missing because I am careless with my zips, and I do indeed have infinite gliders. Deleting and re-installing everything has solved 99% of the weirdness I've ever seen with this mod.

...or maybe the low speed drag model actually is a little off

[Hodo]

-We're not used to aircraft designed for low drag and high TWRs. Many real world aircraft don't fly more than 1.5-3 times faster than their stall speeds, so an aircraft aerodynamically designed for high-speed/low-drag may indeed take a long time to get down to a slow flight regime. Does anyone know how long it takes an F-16 to get down to stall speed after cutting the engine in level flight

I don't have any of my documentation in front of me so I am shooting from memory. But the F-16C can glide 15km for every 1000ft AGL.

[Sparker]

Thank you for fixing that bug that prevented wings from being shielded, Ferram! Now I can finally finish my ARES probe!

[thorfinn]

I don't have any of my documentation in front of me so I am shooting from memory. But the F-16C can glide 15km for every 1000ft AGL.

That seems pretty high... It would be a 20:1 L/D, supersonic combat sailplane?

Still, I think that FAR is mostly correct and our problem is the lack of any navigation system (and the bad view out of many IVA cockpits). A 3 degree glide slope (that airliners descend almost in idle after all) means having a very hard time seeing the runway and navigating... But fast jets DO NOT navigate by eye, after all.

All in all, I'm surprised that we don't have more airbrake mods though :-)

[Hodo]

That seems pretty high... It would be a 20:1 L/D, supersonic combat sailplane?

Still, I think that FAR is mostly correct and our problem is the lack of any navigation system (and the bad view out of many IVA cockpits). A 3 degree glide slope (that airliners descend almost in idle after all) means having a very hard time seeing the runway and navigating... But fast jets DO NOT navigate by eye, after all.

All in all, I'm surprised that we don't have more airbrake mods though :-)

Dead stick engine out landing in an F-16. Take note of his air speed on the left side of the HUD.

[Kniben]

Dead stick engine out landing in an F-16. Take note of his air speed on the left side of the HUD.

Interesting! I did some more testing using the FAR thunderbird. I was able to glide at 200 m/s at a pitch of -10% and AoA at 1.1%. Which seems to be very similar to the clip.

But it was possible to maintain 92 m/s at a glideslope of 2-3%. Which means: pretty much any added thrust would bounce it up.

Very rough comparsion yes, but I doubt the F-16 (or any plane except a very light glider) could glide at such flat slope. And after all, the pilot did dump all his fuel in which i did not.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Kniben

[Hodo]

Interesting! I did some more testing using the FAR thunderbird. I was able to glide at 200 m/s at a pitch of -10% and AoA at 1.1%. Which seems to be very similar to the clip.

But it was possible to maintain 92 m/s at a glideslope of 2-3%. Which means: pretty much any added thrust would bounce it up.

Very rough comparsion yes, but I doubt the F-16 (or any plane except a very light glider) could glide at such flat slope. And after all, the pilot did dump all his fuel in which i did not.

The F-16C is still 8.5 tons completely empty. So you can figure his was still around 9.5-10 tons at that point, because he still had his ALQ-184 and his LANTIRN pod and any weapon stores still on the craft, odds are he still had two AIM-9 Sidewinders or AIM-120 AMRAAMs on the wings and the ammo for the M61 20mm.