[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[acc]

Seems like the fairing shielding for procedural fairings (maybe other fairings/bays too?) does not longer work with 0.14.3.1. But I've to test if it was not a random bug.

Specs: KSP 0.24 x86 @ Win 7 x64

Edited October 21, 2014 by acc

[ferram4]

Fairing and cargo bay shielding works perfectly fine on my end. If there is an edge case where things don't work, you'll need to provide a full copy of the log and reproduction steps.

[DaMichel]

Well, sounds like Flight Data needs to be updated then (I assume that's DaMichel's Flight Data mod?)

EDIT: Ninja'd by the Master.

Yes, this is from KerbalFlightData. I think this should not occur any more. IIRC i fixed it in one of the recent versions. But it did never cause actual harm. No, apparently i didn't fix it.

Btw. Ferram4, have you seen my pull request?

Edited October 21, 2014 by DaMichel
........ ...

[LMA]

Do you mean they are side slipping in flight or sitting on the runway?

If it is in flight and you are going with a tailess design, then that is pretty normal if your thrust gets out of alignment just a bit. The B-2 uses some minor thrust variations to control the yaw and side slip of the aircraft inflight. You may have to do the samething.

Do you have a picture of the craft?

I updated Ferram to v0.14.3.1 then began working on a tailess fighter design that kept side slipping then turning over on it's back no matter what I did. I couldn't get it to work so tried a massive tail on it and that stopped it going out of control. I loaded up a design that worked a few days ago that had small tails like the F-35 design and that did the same thing acting like there are no tails slipping to the left then rolling over. It's like the nose doesn't know where forward is anymore. Or maybe Ferram has got more realistic and we can't get away with small tails anymore.

Edited October 21, 2014 by LMA

[FirstSecondThird]

My aircraft, built with SP+ and B9 Aerospace, work well under FAR/NEAR. It's just everytime my sideslip angle gets above 3 degrees, I get a "High AoA/Sideslip" Message for no reason. It works very well and handles well when I pump fuel forwards.

[jrandom]

I updated Ferram to v0.14.3.1 then began working on a tailess fighter design that kept side slipping then turning over on it's back no matter what I did. I couldn't get it to work so tried a massive tail on it and that stopped it going out of control. I loaded up a design that worked a few days ago that had small tails like the F-35 design and that did the same thing acting like there are no tails slipping to the left then rolling over. It's like the nose doesn't know where forward is anymore. Or maybe Ferram has got more realistic and we can't get away with small tails anymore.

I grabbed the latest dev version from github and the roll issue is gone (whee!). I haven't had any yaw problems (even with 14.3.1) so I'm very curious to see what your aircraft looks like.

[ferram4]

@DaMichel: I saw it, I just haven't merged yet.

@LMA: You've never been able to get away with tiny tails. Now is no different.

@FirstSecondThird: Then it's reading off of AoA. The second AoA or sideslip gets above ~20 degrees, it lights up with that. The GUI will only light up with that if the AoA or sideslip is that high. It doesn't matter if they work well, it just matters that they are at high AoA or sideslip.

[LMA]

This design worked last week but not anymore.

I tried with larger tails and it didn't work.

Letting the aircraft fly level just after take off then climbing a bit seemed to work. Seems the aircraft is about half as fast now it soon stalls after take off and doesn't pick up speed very well.

Edited October 21, 2014 by LMA

[El wonso]

Mk2 Bicoupler causes my spaceplanes to roll and yaw by itself with FAR or NEAR installed. I have had this problem when Spaceplace Plus was still a mod.

Am I the only one with this problem? Should I reinstall KSP?

[ferram4]

@LMA: Then try the dev build from the github repo. In any case, those tiny vertical tails so close to the CoM won't provide much yaw stability at all.

@El wonso: I haven't seen this problem for symmetrical designs. It is possible that KSP's wonky attachment resulted in you building a vehicle that was slightly asymmetric. Always assume the vehicle is asymmetric first, it is often the truth.

[LMA]

"Then try the dev build from the github repo. In any case, those tiny vertical tails so close to the CoM won't provide much yaw stability at all."

Have you got a link I can't find it on the first page.

[acc]

Seems like the fairing shielding for procedural fairings (maybe other fairings/bays too?) does not longer work with 0.14.3.1. But I've to test if it was not a random bug.

Specs: KSP 0.24 x86 @ Win 7 x64

Nope, was not a random bug. And I'm sure shielding was working before I updated FAR.

Fairing and cargo bay shielding works perfectly fine on my end. If there is an edge case where things don't work, you'll need to provide a full copy of the log and reproduction steps.

Screens:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Reproduction: Just build something with procedural fairings, scroll the cam into the fairing and check the shielding value on the parts inside. (In editor and in flight)

Output log: Link

Mods:

09.10.2014 19:11 <DIR> 000_Toolbar
16.10.2014 02:09 <DIR> AviationLights
15.10.2014 14:41 <DIR> BahaSP
10.10.2014 23:58 <DIR> BDArmory
15.10.2014 15:04 <DIR> BoxSat alpha
08.10.2014 21:49 <DIR> Chatterer
25.07.2014 21:38 <DIR> CustomBiomes
10.10.2014 19:02 <DIR> DeadlyReentry
29.07.2014 16:00 <DIR> DistantObject
10.10.2014 19:03 <DIR> DMagic Orbital Science
07.10.2014 21:21 <DIR> EditorExtensions
21.07.2014 00:00 <DIR> FASA
19.10.2014 20:06 <DIR> FerramAerospaceResearch
20.10.2014 02:29 <DIR> ImprovedChaseCamera
08.10.2014 20:07 <DIR> KAS
09.10.2014 10:19 <DIR> KerbalFlightIndicators
10.08.2014 01:54 <DIR> KSPLua
08.10.2014 20:56 <DIR> MagicSmokeIndustries
10.10.2014 19:08 <DIR> MechJeb2
10.10.2014 18:52 46.080 ModuleManager.2.5.1.dll
10.10.2014 12:38 <DIR> NASAmission
10.10.2014 20:42 <DIR> NearFutureSolar
08.10.2014 00:29 <DIR> OpenResourceSystem
08.10.2014 00:29 <DIR> ORSResourcePack
08.06.2014 00:30 <DIR> PartCatalog
20.10.2014 20:47 <DIR> ProceduralDynamics
16.06.2014 21:40 <DIR> ProceduralFairings
15.10.2014 14:43 <DIR> ProceduralParts
11.10.2014 00:11 <DIR> RealChute
12.10.2014 18:03 <DIR> RemoteTech
08.10.2014 20:03 <DIR> SCANsat
12.10.2014 17:39 <DIR> SelectRoot
28.09.2014 14:26 <DIR> ShipManifest
10.10.2014 12:39 <DIR> Squad
19.10.2014 19:29 <DIR> StationPartsExpansion
15.10.2014 01:01 <DIR> StationScience
11.10.2014 00:10 <DIR> ThunderAerospace
21.10.2014 17:16 3.858 toolbar-settings.dat
14.10.2014 23:45 <DIR> Trajectories
08.10.2014 00:29 <DIR> TreeLoader
10.10.2014 15:13 <DIR> TriggerTech
12.10.2014 17:38 <DIR> TweakScale
08.10.2014 00:53 <DIR> WarpPlugin
17.10.2014 19:59 <DIR> [x] Science!

Edited October 21, 2014 by acc

[LMA]

If I put one colossal tail on my design in the middle far back as possible it still rotates sideways as if there's no tail. The aircraft acceleration is really bad too even though the TWR is 1.2. maybe the cockpit doesn't like FAR.

[Gfurst]

Hey there, I've noticed some exceptions thrown while randomly browsing my log.

I think these happened on the editor while tweaking some surfaces, maybe the new strong factor?

Hope this means something, cheers!

[EXC 01:15:06.147] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Component.GetComponent[FARPartModule] ()
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureHitDetectionAndWingDetection (UnityEngine.RaycastHit[] hits, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, System.Double& exposure, Double exposureDecreasePerHit)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureInSpanDirection (ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel[]& nearbyWings, Vector3 rayDirection, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, Single b_2, Single MAC, Single TaperRatio, Single MidChordSweep)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.UpdateWingInteraction (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 VesselPartList, Boolean isSmallSrf)
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.UpdateWingInteractions ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.StartInitialization ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.Start ()
	ferram4.FARControllableSurface.Start ()
[EXC 01:15:06.151] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Component.GetComponent[FARPartModule] ()
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureHitDetectionAndWingDetection (UnityEngine.RaycastHit[] hits, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, System.Double& exposure, Double exposureDecreasePerHit)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureInSpanDirection (ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel[]& nearbyWings, Vector3 rayDirection, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, Single b_2, Single MAC, Single TaperRatio, Single MidChordSweep)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.UpdateWingInteraction (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 VesselPartList, Boolean isSmallSrf)
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.UpdateWingInteractions ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.StartInitialization ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.Start ()
	ferram4.FARControllableSurface.Start ()
[EXC 01:15:06.155] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Component.GetComponent[FARPartModule] ()
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureHitDetectionAndWingDetection (UnityEngine.RaycastHit[] hits, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, System.Double& exposure, Double exposureDecreasePerHit)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureInSpanDirection (ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel[]& nearbyWings, Vector3 rayDirection, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, Single b_2, Single MAC, Single TaperRatio, Single MidChordSweep)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.UpdateWingInteraction (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 VesselPartList, Boolean isSmallSrf)
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.UpdateWingInteractions ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.StartInitialization ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.Start ()
	ferram4.FARControllableSurface.Start ()
[EXC 01:15:06.159] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Component.GetComponent[FARPartModule] ()
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureHitDetectionAndWingDetection (UnityEngine.RaycastHit[] hits, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, System.Double& exposure, Double exposureDecreasePerHit)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.ExposureInSpanDirection (ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel[]& nearbyWings, Vector3 rayDirection, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 vesselPartList, Single b_2, Single MAC, Single TaperRatio, Single MidChordSweep)
	ferram4.FARWingInteraction.UpdateWingInteraction (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 VesselPartList, Boolean isSmallSrf)
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.UpdateWingInteractions ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.StartInitialization ()
	ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.Start ()
	ferram4.FARControllableSurface.Start ()

[ferram4]

@LMA: Source code link in the OP. It's pretty obvious, right underneath the download link. Make sure you're using the latest version of pWings, some changes were needed to it to make it function properly with the latest version of FAR.

@acc: I cannot reproduce the issue using procedural fairings; they shield things just fine. Make sure you're using the most up-to-date version of both mods, and ensure that there are no conflicts caused by other mods.

@Gfurst: I know all about those, they're fixed in the dev build.

Alright, the v0.14.3.2 patch is out, which fixes a bunch of wing interaction issues, which should be the majority of the problems people have been having.

Edited October 21, 2014 by ferram4

[LMA]

Thanks I'll try that it wasn't obvious as you said the dev version there is no download labelled dev version both under download have the same name and version number.

Thanks for the update.

Edited October 21, 2014 by LMA

[acc]

@acc: I cannot reproduce the issue using procedural fairings; they shield things just fine. Make sure you're using the most up-to-date version of both mods, and ensure that there are no conflicts caused by other mods.

Now I noticed it's even more worse. Some parts are shielded, some not, sometimes all, sometimes noone. I'll update to 0.14.3.2 now and hope it will fix it, because I have no idea which mod could conflict with it.

And I've all mods up to date.

[GabeTeuton]

Just updated, not done testing it yet... though i still can't happen to make a good ssto... but that's for other time, the new updated broke the vertical/horizontal acceleration meter in Kerbal Engineer, shows "0", not sure if it's intended, or if it's because now KE has to update to the changes in FAR, so just letting you know ! (the vertical one in the KSP's original GUI works)

[acc]

Ok, now I've setup a test install with only stock and:

- FAR 0.14.3.2

- Procedural Fairings 3.10

- Module Manager 2.5.1

Result is the same.

Screens:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Output Log: Link

Test Craft: Link

[boxley]

bit of a problem here, I was using lots of mods and suddenly I found that the new sp+ parts in .25 don't work properly, more specifically the flaps don't work. they stay totally static. however when I use the unchanged parts not from spaceplane plus like the canards and deluxe winglet, it works like normal.

I know its something to do with FAR because ive restarted the game several times with random mods uninstalled and far seems to be causing it.

[ferram4]

You did not update FAR then. The most recent FAR includes configs to make the updated SP+ parts work. Update FAR, it should have been yelling at you for not updating anyway.

[jrandom]

(edit: nevermind, someone else already answered)

[Hyomoto]

I didn't find an answer to my question and it's been buried. Are there any hot keys for FAR? I'd like to be able to toggle the FAR assists while I'm flying, but it requires me to take my hand off the joystick to do it. If so, where can I find them/what are they? And if not, are there any plans to do something of this sort? I know the assists were meant for keyboard users mostly, but the wing leveler is (usually) really useful during take off, landing and just flying a really far distance.

[ABZB]

yes... you are right.

EDIT: ...

I'm an idiot - I assumed I had updated it since KSP didn't complain. On checking my download history, it is apparent that I never downloaded the new version.

I have to thank you for directing my attention in the correct direction.

So... I now think that that was not the issue. The issue is now recurring. The log indicates that for some reason, each part has its module indexes off by one, resulting in FAR not finding any FAR data... This has happened in the past when a module is still in a part from a .dll that was removed - but according to my MM dump, there are no such vestigial modules on any of the parts...

EDIT:

I have KSPI (Fractal's latest version) installed. KSPI adds a module that records radiation exposure (it does not have other functions as of now). It seems that this module is inserted into crewed parts as they are added to a craft. It seems that this module, by some unknown process, is either inserted before or after the FAR module. when it is inserted before, the module index is thrown off (at least for FAR). when it is inserted afterward, it is fine. When I had previously thought I solve the issue, I also had happened to change my [root part] cockpit to a different part, I suspect this solved the problem by virtue of the new part happening to have the FNRadiation module inserted in the non-confunding position. If I can confirm that this is my issue, I will post a bug report to KSPI...

Edited October 22, 2014 by ABZB

[velusip]

@velusip: I don't know what to tell you. No one has been able to provide reproduction steps that work for me. FAR doesn't even set anything for the vessel state, so if that is breaking, then it is likely a stock bug of some kind. Unless someone can get me a working set of reproduction steps, the best I can do is set FAR to not do anything for the first few frames and then hope that the same error doesn't occur when it starts up again. I'd prefer not to do that, but I see no other options besides such hacks.

Does the same behavior occur with NEAR?

It is a stock bug that has been around for a long time. Something about the new destructable launch pad and runway are making it more apparent on Linux builds. It's too bad that loading during launch is not verbose. This is the best I can do until I figure out how to make things more verbose:

KSP v0.25 (Linux, 64-bit)
- FAR v0.14.3.2

    Flight State Captured
    Saving Achievements Tree...
    Game State Saved as persistent
    [Untitled Space Craft]: ground contact! - error: 0.041m
    Unpacking Untitled Space Craft 
    Stagnation Pressure Coefficient Curve Initialized
    recalculating orbit for mk1pod: Kerbin
    rPos: [657184119436.949, 181017846892.654, -1153055725.19357]   rVel: [16429588938705.5, 4525442203816.25, -28826368000] |17041474431351.5|  
    recalculated orbit for mk1pod: the Sun
    rPos: [643583319705.133, 181072139550.429, -1153055725.19357]   rVel: [16429536282545.8, -28826368000, 4525633362253.53] |17041474430005.3|  
    [Progress Node Reached]: Escape
    [Progress Node Reached]: Kerbin
    [Progress Node Complete]: Escape
    [Progress Node Reached]: Flyby
    [Progress Node Reached]: Sun
    [Progress Node Complete]: Flyby
    setting new dominant body: the Sun
    FlightGlobals.mainBody: Kerbin
    Vessel mk1pod velocity resumed. Reference body: Sun vel: [16429536282545.8, -28826368000, 4525633362253.53]  
    dT is NaN! tA: NaN, E: NaN, M: NaN, T: NaN
    getObtAtUT result is NaN! UT: NaN
    dT is NaN! tA: NaN, E: NaN, M: NaN, T: NaN
    getObtAtUT result is NaN! UT: NaN
    nearestTT is NaN! t1: NaN, t2: NaN, FEVp: NaN, SEVp: NaN
    getObtAtUT result is NaN! UT: NaN
    ArithmeticException: NAN
      at System.Math.Sign (Double value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
      at Orbit.solveEccentricAnomalyExtremeEcc (Double M, Double ecc, Int32 iterations) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
      at Orbit.getRelativePositionAtT (Double T) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0                                                                              at Orbit.getPositionAtT (Double T) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0         at Orbit.getPositionAtUT (Double UT) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
      at Orbit.SolveClosestApproach (.Orbit p, .Orbit s, System.Double& UT, Double dT, Double threshold, Double MinUT, Double MaxUT, Double epsilon, Int32 maxIterations, System.Int32& iterationCount) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
      at PatchedConics.CalculatePatch (.Orbit p, .Orbit nextPatch, Double startEpoch, .SolverParameters pars, .CelestialBody targetBody) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
      at PatchedConicSolver.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

It looks like ground contact before the vessel is loaded. It could just be an issue with the way the logger works, but I'm quite sure that FlightGlobals.ActiveVessel.parts is empty upon the first run of Update() (maybe more than the first). While your mod may not interact with part state directly, FAR simulation does appear to run and values are set before the parts know where they are. Chances are some obscure values get accumulated early on in the simulation?

This doesn't happen with NEAR, so that cuts down on the possible problem points. Not to say NEAR doesn't run early, I haven't looked. However, I don't use NEAR because it seems to cause problems with Deadly reentry and RealChute. I haven't looked into that much, but I might do some testing and post in an appropriate thread later.

Edited October 22, 2014 by velusip
grammarthings