[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Van Disaster]

I took a clean install of build 1028, applied current release FAR, went in the SPH & built an illustration craft. You'd expect rather a lot of pitch-down moment on flap deploy of this thing...

[url=https://flic.kr/p/BfxLEN][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/780/23137116562_5dbf2e4880_z.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/ACNw1t][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5785/22732600067_0d356ec80c_z.jpg[/img][/url]

Note lack of visible flap deployment as well as apparent lack of effect. Ditto the derivatives tab ( I note the control surfaces don't move to show managing the indicated AoA at the moment either ):

[url=https://flic.kr/p/AjLAcJ][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5811/22528527024_831ab9d6e9_z.jpg[/img][/url]

All fine on the runway ( ailerons set as spoilers for demo purposes )
[url=https://flic.kr/p/AjLCab][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5725/22528533604_a729f26aa2_z.jpg[/img][/url]

[URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/4sj4wp4ecjffpkt/SPH%20Flap%20demo.craft?dl=0"]Craft file.[/URL]

[Galenmacil]

Maybe someone else already mentioned these points, but here are some probably easy to implement suggestion:

1 - Implement a keyboard shortcut to toggle FAR "stability augmentation" assistance. One key to toggle them all would be good. Adding individual toggle for each ones would be even better.
2 - Make FAR automatically disable all stability augmentation when launching a new vehicle instead of remembering last used vehicle settings.

Thanks a lot Ferram for this fabulous mod. I mean, this turn KSP into a decent aircraft simulator. In my opinion, makes KSP as good or better than X-Plane, Prepar3D and Flightgear since you have that "DIY" aspect. I am going to say this again: You are a genius!

[Guest]

ferram the mini-drill is bugged

[IMG]http://imgur.com/2QXYX9D.jpg[/IMG] Edited November 21, 2015 by RevanCorana

[cantab]

Does anyone know what, if any, the last version of voxel-FAR that supported KSP 0.90 was? I think FAR 0.14.7 was the last proper release for KSP 0.90 but that was with the old part-by-part approach.

[Nansuchao]

The voxel approach was born with KSP 1.0. Before it I don't remember this system. Maybe in some dev versions never released.

[Psycho_zs]

Not sure how to search the thread for this issue... It seems that sometimes for some vessels the atmospheric drag is ignored completely on reentry.
Usually I could just reload last save when that happened and everything worked smooth the second time, but now I am in trouble: I have a ship returning from Mun that consists of three capsules strapped to a common structure. I decouple them before hitting the atmosphere, so they would reenter separately. The problem is: some of them perform a proper aerobraking, but other just shoot through the air without any drag. All three are inside physics bubble, I can switch between them, but at least one does not get any drag.

[ferram4]

[b]@RevanCorona: [/b]Yeah, RoverDude's stuff seems very prone to that. I'll need to find what exactly happens there; it probably spawns in some funky way.

[b]@cantab: [/b]Only dev versions that were incredibly buggy and are not available for general use.

[b]@Psycho_zs: [/b]Then you are going to have to provide [i]full and complete[/i] reproduction steps of how to cause the issue. And I mean [i]exact[/i]. Reverted to the SPH 30 times that session? I need to know that. Switched vehicles multiple times that session? I need to know that and how much (exact numbers). Deployed landing gear, cargo bays and stuff? I need to know that and how many times. Included specific parts on the vehicle with the issue? I need to know that. Yes, I need to know all of that.

[Psycho_zs]

I'm currently trying to rig a non-modded craft to replicate this... Will post as soon as I finish.

[Psycho_zs]

OK, here is the craft: [URL]http://pastebin.com/TJnmypvy[/URL]
Launch, get an elliptical orbit with apoapsis somewhere at the height of Mun's orbit and periapsis at 30km. Just before reentry, point a bit above retrograde marker, spin up the craft to stabilize the pods and activate the last stage (decouples pods, activates cutes). If everything went well all three pods should hit the atmosphere shield-first and spinning, spreading apart.
Switch between all four objects with [ ] keys, fix heading if any pod starts tumbling. Keep switching between pods. At some point it should be noticeable that some of them do not get any drag, even when focused.
In my last test one of the pods had drag at first, but lost it somewhere in the process. So one pod successfully braked back out of physics bubble and landed (via stage recovery, not focused), the other one did not brake at all, and the third managed to cut its apoapsis in half.

...wow, at the second pass the dragless pod managed to accelerate inside the atmosphere and raise apoapsis by a ~1000km

...the pod that lost the drag in the process seems just left the physics bubble while the dragless pod was focused. Edited November 21, 2015 by Psycho_zs

[ferram4]

I cannot reproduce the issue. All pods and the remaining upper stage have drag, regardless of how many times I switch. I cannot see any difference in drag properties that cannot be explained by different orientations and all drag values are positive. Your reproduction steps are missing key information, or the issue does not exist in FAR itself.

[Psycho_zs]

Then I have a bit of excluding to do...
Sorry for taking your time.

[Psycho_zs]

Clean KSP + FAR this time.
Log here: [URL]http://pastebin.com/hS5UWpFN[/URL]
During that session I started the game, loaded pre-reentry save with the same test vessel.
I do not know where my head was when I posted the first message about this, but I forgot to mention that I'm running KSP on Linux.

It seems, Jeb always gets it (first seat in the list, top capsule). This time his capsule did not stabilize and exploded. The apopsis did not move. Edited November 22, 2015 by Psycho_zs

[Shnyrik]

I think, I've found incompatability between FAR 0.15.5.3 and Procedural parts.
[url]http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/106975[/url]

When you add more than one procedural booster, FAR 0.15.5.3 goes mad, makes some weird voxel constructions and stops calculating in SPH. FAR 0.15.5.2 in the same situation behaves correctly.

Checked it on clean KSP 1.0.5 install without any mods except for FAR and current versions of Procedural parts and Procedural fairings. I used this craft for my tests:
[url]https://yadi.sk/d/ZtpbkK3SkeHjY[/url] Edited November 22, 2015 by Shnyrik

[Venerabilis]

Regarding the issue with flaps and spoilers not working, I tested the older 15.5.2 version and in it they seem to work as intended in the FAR analysis.

[ferram4]

[b]@Psycho_zs: [/b]I found something. You should have specified that ultra-high speed spinning was required to cause the issue; turns out it was an edge case with ModuleJettison. Fixed in dev build.

[b]@Shnyrik: [/b]Ahk, I see. That's something funky with Procedural Fairings, not Procedural Parts. Did it happen in 0.15.5.2 as well, or just with 0.15.5.3?

[b]@Venerabilius: [/b]It's already been fixed in the dev build.

[Psycho_zs]

[quote name='ferram4'][B]@Psycho_zs: [/B]I found something. You should have specified that ultra-high speed spinning was required to cause the issue; turns out it was an edge case with ModuleJettison. Fixed in dev build[/QUOTE]

Cool!

[quote name='Psycho_zs']OK, here is the craft: [URL]http://pastebin.com/TJnmypvy[/URL]
Just before reentry, point a bit above retrograde marker, spin up the craft to stabilize the pods and activate the last stage (decouples pods, activates cutes). If everything went well all three pods should hit the atmosphere shield-first and spinning, spreading apart.[/QUOTE]

Well, I did mention that I spin the ship to stabilize it. :)

[Shnyrik]

[quote name='ferram4']Ahk, I see. That's something funky with Procedural Fairings, not Procedural Parts.[/QUOTE]

That is strange, I didn't have that issue (or at least didn't notice it) with just fairings, problems began when I started adding procedural boosters.

[quote name='ferram4']Did it happen in 0.15.5.2 as well, or just with 0.15.5.3?[/QUOTE]

No, just in 15.5.3. For now I use 15.5.2 and everything seems to be OK.

[ferram4]

[b]@Psycho_zs: [/b]True, but my solution was to have SAS on on all the pods. :P I figured if stability was the only reason that there were better options.

[b]@Shnyrik: [/b]It was a weird race condition that could show up when adding some procedural parts. I only noticed it with the fairings, but I suppose it's possible with the other parts as well. Nevertheless, dev build has it fixed.

A new update should be out relatively soon fixing a bunch of issues unless I find something that requires a ton more work to fix.

[Van Disaster]

Aero question but FAR specifics: aero viz Tint cD on, the craft is supersonic; what's causing the passenger section at the rear of the wing to light up like that, is that a wave drag issue or something wierd going on with the craft structure?

[url=https://flic.kr/p/As9Drx][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/563/22612045853_065eb097f0_c.jpg[/img][/url]

[ferram4]

That would be wave drag, mostly due to the wings. The tinting system doesn't play well with the shader stuff that B9 Proc Wings does, so you don't see it on those.

[Motorsheep]

This is probably a dumb question and would be answered by reading the material thoroughly, but it's late and I'm tired and counting on the kindness of the forum folks, especially since I usually figure everything out for myself and hardly ever ask questions:


Is my capsule supposed to go supersonic in free fall?

I just got back into KSP after a long break and started off with the latest FAR installed right away.

Now in free fall, my MK1 capsule will easily reach supersonic speeds and keep accelerating right down to sea level. This makes for some very interesting parachute brake maneuvers going from 400+m/s to 8m/s within seconds, subjecting poor Jeb to 15+g's in the process. I can't imagine that it's working as designed for me?

[Guest]

If it disappears above mach 1.2 wave drag it is.

At least we have F12 arrows to replace aeorviz when using B9 p-wings

[Van Disaster]

[quote name='RevanCorana']If it disappears above mach 1.2 wave drag it is.

At least we have F12 arrows to replace aeorviz when using B9 p-wings[/QUOTE]

Well, no, it won't necessarily disappear ( it doesn't ) above 1.2, but it it steady state. B9 pW uses it's own shader so I wasn't really expecting aero viz to work - although you can see an effect if you have an open wingtip. Mostly I was confirming my suspicions that it was showing wave drag in the first place, because that's the first supersonic thing I've recently built big enough for a specific effect like that not to not get lost in noise. Actually fixing the issue is another matter - I don't know much about shaping the back end of wings and I don't really want to add more wing panels. Sticking anti-shock bodies to the fuselage helped, but not a terribly elegant solution.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/BpYXyS][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/567/23243879486_4481411936_c.jpg[/img][/url]


Incidentally is this another one of yours, Ferram?
[code]
[ERR 08:06:31.687] The hull has more than 255 polygons. This is invalid.
[/code]

It's probably blowfish's cockpit which has a broken collider, but just checking.

[Nansuchao]

In preparation for the 1.1, in KSP 1.0.5 you can't have parts with more than 255 polygons, cause they're not supported in Unity 5.

[sal_vager]

255 polygons is the [U][URL="http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/the-hull-has-more-than-255-polygons.212318/"]Unity limit[/URL][/U] on convex colliders.

This is separate to the model, you can have more than 255 polygons on a model but you need to use a simpler collider or multiple colliders, this issue arises when a modder copies the mesh to use as the collider instead of making a low poly version.