[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[ferram4]

@grom: Do you mean that it's losing control only in the north-south plane regardless of how the rocket is oriented, or that it is only unstable in the pitch-control plane despite the radial symmetry of the rocket?

@MR4Y: I assume you're talking about the way that with FAR, your plane flies like it's in air? Keep in mind that jet engines in KSP are overpowered and the last release of FAR didn't update that. Yes, real jet fighters can fly supersonic at sea level, there's nothing weird with what you're seeing. You're just used to the stock drag model. Don't worry, that'll wear off.

@Van Disaster: That might be a problem caused by pWings. Try out the new version of FAR and see if it still happens. I also believe that I've fixed the B9 cargo bay bug, so you should try it out now.

Version 0.9.5 is out now, fixing incompatibilities with B9 Aerospace, handling drag due to the tapering of parts (command pods don't require part.cfg overrides anymore!), some optimizations and switching over to a ModuleManager based system.

People updating from FAR 0.9.4 to 0.9.5 should overwrite GameData/Squad/Parts with the GameData/Squad/Parts folder from their KSP download. Otherwise, bad things may happen.

[Clamps]

So what do we do if we don't have a clean part folder?

[ferram4]

SQUAD hasn't released a patcher, and so everyone running 0.20.2 should have a copy of the zip somewhere on their computer. Re-extract the proper folder and overwrite the modified files.

I also mentioned in the first post (prior to this update) to keep a backup of the Parts folder for the purpose of clearing out FAR's part.cfg overwrites.

If you haven't kept a backup of the Parts folder (as instructed) or you deleted the 0.20.2 zip file, you'll have to re-download KSP to get access to the files.

[ialdabaoth]

Hey, is there somewhere I can grab your latest source code for 0.9.5?

[ferram4]

Download the FAR zip and look in the Source folder.

[Silenvo]

I require assistance with installation or configuration.

Symptoms: When I enter the building hanger there is no sign of the FAR screen (as I have seen on TheWinterOwl's Let's Fly), when I turn on the "Center of Lift" the

blue ball is in the center of the floor. Lastly, when I launch to the runway, none of the control surfaces respond, no matter what aircraft I chose to operate; the dials

at the bottom left are moving, but the control surfaces are not.

I do not understand why it is malfunctioning, and I have examined installation suggestions from three different locations and even watched a few YouTube videos

(of the few that there are) on installing mods. Despite following to the letter, still yielded the same results. Other mods have successfully installed - mostly, being parts

and ships - the mods ships do show up, but the interface adjustments and helpers do not. I have tried every single key on my keyboard in hopes of some undocumented

hotkey, again to no avail. After wasting my day failing on this, my only chance of getting help is asking here.

It would appear that I am either fundamentally missing an important detail, or that the mod is conflicting with the game. I really want this to work, but I'm getting

nowhere; can someone explain what I'm doing wrong?

Game Specs: (Steam Version) - v0.20.2.186

Computer Specs: Windows 7 Home Premium, i7 CPU 975 @ 3.33 GHz 3.33 GHz, 6.00GB RAM, 64-bit Operating System.

Controls: Razor Lycosa Keyboard, and Razor Death Adder Mouse. (These two only, no joystick.)

Edited June 13, 2013 by Silenvo
Edit #0: Fixing ugly text and pondering when a response will come. [11:29 AM]

[Chestburster]

With 0.9.5 my log gets flooded with "Look rotation viewing vector is zero" and some planes cant start without getting "sucked" into the nether, what means screen turning black, altimeter freaking out, navball and icons disappearing. Restarted the game multiple times to make sure its not just a hickup. Reverting back to 0.9.4 fixed the flood and the craft starts again fine.

[Autochton]

Okay, so my aerodynamics skillz are crap. I need help.

Meet the Lancer light personnel shuttle:

Now meet my enemy: the Lancer's stability derivatives. Particularly Xw.

Now the tooltip tells me that it ought to be negative. I have on occasion managed to get it marginally below zero - but never very far. I can't seem to find anything that has meaningful effect on this particular derivative - negative Xw basically means that upward wind pushes the plane backward, right? I have inclined my wings (pWings) every which way, swept or unswept them, shifted them back, forth, up or down, tried to find some way to make sense of it. But no. I have images with the centers of the plane visible, if that helps - but I figured I'd leave off spamming images in the thread for now.

Help? How do I control my Xw?

Edited June 13, 2013 by Autochton

[Weatherman159]

Erm..just noticed that v 0.9.5 has removed all control surface management...they don't register or something...possible bug?

Edit: Oh hell, it's the incompatibility of ModuleManager with the B9 pack. Ferram, could you possibly create a version that doesn't use MM? Or should I just edit the config files myself?

Edited June 13, 2013 by Weatherman159

[m4ti140]

SQUAD hasn't released a patcher, and so everyone running 0.20.2 should have a copy of the zip somewhere on their computer. Re-extract the proper folder and overwrite the modified files.

I also mentioned in the first post (prior to this update) to keep a backup of the Parts folder for the purpose of clearing out FAR's part.cfg overwrites.

If you haven't kept a backup of the Parts folder (as instructed) or you deleted the 0.20.2 zip file, you'll have to re-download KSP to get access to the files.

What do you mean by "Squad hasn't released a patcher"? I used the patcher I had in my download of 0.20 to update to 0.20.1 (which failed) and than to 0.20.2, which seems to have worked - my version number changed to 0.20.2 and there were no errors. Does it mean it didn't actually update and I should redownload the game? It seems to work correctly so far.

[Van Disaster]

Autochon: I must admit I'm terrible at using the data, I only generally go check when something is really wrong. I will note your tail surface's "neutral" position appears not to be end on to the airflow though, I can't see from that angle if that is going to result in any pitch-up force or no but it does kinda look like it might.

[Spanier]

FAR 0.9.5 has broken the SABRE engines from B9 and it makes atmospheric VTOL impossible.

[Van Disaster]

SABRE S works ok, M model not. I don't appear to be able to edit any stock control surfaces either ( after reinstalling the stock cfgs, yes ) - the FAR-enabled ones from other places are still working fine. Note the CoL marker too, that ought to be inside the CoM but I presume the SPH is using the default aero for the canards & tail & messing it up. Oddly the plane flies just fine!

Edit: having checked other threads I suspect it's modulemanager itself having problems with the B9 engines, that's been reported before. I would guess it may not be loading Squad part edits or even FAR ones, given they're probably loaded later.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Van Disaster

[Volt]

Okay, so I'm back on the KSP scene after exams and I've built a new modset using B9 aerospace and FAR as the centrepoint. And I want to build big - I love airliners and cargo planes. But I have a big engineering question to ask you experts: How do aeronautical engineers counter the pitch-up torque generated by engines slung below the centre of mass? I'm having real trouble getting a plane that's aerodynamically stable with an offset CoT but I know it's possible because the evidence is in every airliner for the last 40-some years.

[Weatherman159]

having checked other threads I suspect it's modulemanager itself having problems with the B9 engines, that's been reported before. I would guess it may not be loading Squad part edits or even FAR ones, given they're probably loaded later.

This is indeed the cause. I can't figure out why Ferram converted over to module manager (maybe it's easier to create one big config instead of editing some 15 different files), but hopefully he'll release a fix.

[Van Disaster]

I can see why - it means he never has to edit stock cfgs and we don't run the risk of half a dozen mods installing the same cfgs. Of course now one mod can break another in different ways, and I don't know what would happen if two mods tried editing the same section of cfg now, but it is a sensible idea.

[Van Disaster]

Ok, as detailed in this post using the ExsurgentEngineering bundled with Deadly Reentry has fixed all issues. Note you don't need DR itself, just the EE dll.

[Weatherman159]

Hmm. I thought flaps where supposed to make a plane easier to control at lower speeds, making landing easier (and shorter). All mine seem to do is make the aircraft stall sooner and pitch it forward a lot. What am I doing wrong?

[s20dan]

Hmm. I thought flaps where supposed to make a plane easier to control at lower speeds, making landing easier (and shorter). All mine seem to do is make the aircraft stall sooner and pitch it forward a lot. What am I doing wrong?

Your flaps sound like they are too far behind the CoM. But tbh I hardly ever use them unless I'm building a completely conventional aircraft.

[Weatherman159]

Your flaps sound like they are too far behind the CoM. But tbh I hardly ever use them unless I'm building a completely conventional aircraft.

They ARE a fair bit behind the CoM, but to put them closer I'd basically have to place them in the middle of the wing, and that would look weird.

[s20dan]

As a test you could try slapping something pretty heavy on the back to move the CoM back towards the flaps, then you at least know if thats the problem.

[Volt]

Damn. I just spent 20 minutes setting up for a mission with my new A400 Atlas-type plane, and the kerbals in the seats inside are spamming NaN errors to hell. Any help, ferram?

Edit: I can't post a log file but the error was something like 'FAR Aerodynamic error' and listed the kerbal's names, one per log entry. Also worth noting is that when I tried to pitch up and down the elevators alternated like ailerons... bad results for said kerbals during a lagstorm. I tested again with the same conditions but without the kerbals in seats and there were no errors, so I assume it's a bug with FAR and seats.

Edit#2: Nope, I'm actually getting errors for any kerbals in the scene, at all times, moving or not. Same error as when in a seat.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Volt

[g_audio]

Why does the Vonnegut from the B9 pack become so uncontrollable for me? Atleast pitch wise. No matter what, it's extremely sensitive to pitch controls. Its like a see-saw flying through the air until I cant keep up with pressing W & S back and forth, then it begins spinning out of control. I don't even have any cargo in it, either.

[777-300ER]

Whenever I load FAR it never shows any control surfaces to configure when I have control surfaces on the aircraft. Any help guys?

[Weatherman159]

Whenever I load FAR it never shows any control surfaces to configure when I have control surfaces on the aircraft. Any help guys?

Using the B9 pack I presume...find the Deadly Reentry mod, download newest version, overwrite the ExurgentEnginnering folder in your GameData with the one from Deadly Reentry.