[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[ialdabaoth]

I have the same issue, and I'm using the modulemanager.dll that came with your latest release. It works with stock surfaces before I install b9, but not after.

Can you try with this one?

Module Manager v1.3

[Chingus]

Can you try with this one?

Thanks, it works!

[Clamps]

How do I get my stock jet engine back? I overwrote the folder with the backup I had and it says all the right things in the SPH but when I go fly it, it has turned into a TurboRamJet engine. No amount of folder deleting and replacing helps, sadly.

This also breaks any action groups relating to the jets. How is it loading the ramjet once I've put the regular engine on? Because this ramjet sucks.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Clamps

[Read have Read]

How do I get my stock jet engine back? I overwrote the folder with the backup I had and it says all the right things in the SPH but when I go fly it, it has turned into a TurboRamJet engine. No amount of folder deleting and replacing helps, sadly.

This also breaks any action groups relating to the jets. How is it loading the ramjet once I've put the regular engine on?

Module manager is overwritting the config with the parameters in the module manger cfg in the FAR folder.

[Clamps]

Module manager is overwritting the config with the parameters in the module manger cfg in the FAR folder.

Edited them out, thanks a ton! Hopefully I still get to keep the TurboRamJet as a part option.

[Kerbal01]

How easy is this to install on MacOS?

I don't want to drag individual .cfgs for each stock part.

[ferram4]

@Clamps: The jet engines are tuned down because they are incredibly overpowered with drag reduced. There is no reason that a jet engine without afterburners should create as much thrust as a rocket engine.

@DarthVader: FAR uses ModuleManager to overwrite the stock config files. You will not need to copy each config file, the plugin will do that for you.

You should also look up how to merge folders on a Mac, since I'm assuming you don't know how to do that if you've resorted to manually moving each file for mods.

[CaptainArbitrary]

I have what must be the dumbest question ever, and I'm sorry for that.

How do the FARControllableSurface parameters vary with the overall scale of the part?

I duplicated the stock winglet3 part and put a rescaleFactor of 0.5 on it (half of the normal value) so it'd look more plausible on my 1.25-meter rockets. I just copied the FARControllableSurface parameters from the winglet3 part without changing them at all â€â€

	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 1.4
		e = 0.8
		MidChordSweep = 15
		maxdeflect = 5
		b_2 = 1.5
		TaperRatio = 0.6
	}

 and they seem to work fine, but I'm not sure I'm actually getting the correct behavior. Do any of those parameters change with the overall scale of the part? It's probably already evident that I don't know anything about aerodynamics.

[ferram4]

@CaptainArbitrary: e, maxdeflect, MidChordSweep and TaperRatio don't change here. Just cut b_2 and MAC in half; b_2 measures the distance from the attachment point to the tip of the surface while MAC measures the average distance from the front to the back of the surface.

[CaptainArbitrary]

@CaptainArbitrary: e, maxdeflect, MidChordSweep and TaperRatio don't change here. Just cut b_2 and MAC in half; b_2 measures the distance from the attachment point to the tip of the surface while MAC measures the average distance from the front to the back of the surface.

Perfect, thanks very much for that. Can we generalize here that for control surfaces, b_2 and MAC are both proportional to the scale of the part? Double the scale, double those parameters, halve it, halve them?

Thanks again.

[Clamps]

@Clamps: The jet engines are tuned down because they are incredibly overpowered with drag reduced. There is no reason that a jet engine without afterburners should create as much thrust as a rocket engine.

Doesn't mean I don't want the option to use the proper jet engine. The FAR engines are really weak. They'd be better with a velocity curve adjustment, even if you kept the 140 thrust.

I edited the FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg and it's still turning my jets into ramjets, what else do I need to change to make it work? Delete module manager? Because my fixes worked fine in the last version, when there was no module manager.

Tried to copy stock engine files into another custom part folder, and changed the name. Still gets turned into a ramjet. This is annoying.

here's my edited cfg:

//This file will overwrite necessary stock values to make wings and some other oddly shaped parts behave properly under aerodynamic loadings
//
//Powered by ialdabaoth's ModuleManager
@PART[AdvancedCanard]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 0.5
		e = 0.9
		MidChordSweep = -15
		maxdeflect = 15
		b_2 = 2
		TaperRatio = 0.1
	}
}
@PART[StandardCtrlSrf]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 0.5
		e = 0.9
		nonSideAttach = 1
		maxdeflect = 20
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 2.8
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}
@PART[CanardController]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 1.1
		e = 0.8
		MidChordSweep = 20
		maxdeflect = 20
		b_2 = 1.6
		TaperRatio = 0.5
	}
}
@PART[deltaWing]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 2
		e = 0.75
		MidChordSweep = 22
		b_2 = 3.5
		TaperRatio = 0.1
	}
}
@PART[smallCtrlSrf]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 0.5
		e = 0.9
		maxdeflect = 20
		nonSideAttach = 1
		b_2 = 1
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}
@PART[sweptWing]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.7
		e = 0.9
		MidChordSweep = 10
		b_2 = 4.9
		TaperRatio = 0.78
	}
}
@PART[tailfin]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.4
		e = 0.75
		MidChordSweep = 22
		b_2 = 1.3
		TaperRatio = 0.4
	}
}
@PART[wingConnector]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 3.3
		e = 0.7
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 1.7
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}
@PART[winglet]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.1
		e = 0.7
		MidChordSweep = 25
		b_2 = 1.5
		TaperRatio = 0.2
	}
}
@PART[R8winglet]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 1.3
		e = 0.8
		MidChordSweep = 10
		maxdeflect = 15
		b_2 = 1.5
		TaperRatio = 0.6
	}
}
@PART[winglet3]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 1.4
		e = 0.8
		MidChordSweep = 15
		maxdeflect = 15
		b_2 = 1.5
		TaperRatio = 0.6
	}
}
@PART[structuralWing]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angluarDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.7
		e = 0.8
		MidChordSweep = 45
		b_2 = 1.8
		TaperRatio = 0
	}
}

I just removed anything dealing with engines, why did this not work?

Where is it even getting the ramjet part? It's not in any of the folders. Would restoring my backup of my parts folder and deleting far entirely, then editing the cfg before reinstalling work?

Edited June 21, 2013 by Clamps

[ferram4]

Ah, I see what's wrong. You must have been behind on updating to the ModuleManager-based version of FAR, since you never followed the instructions stated in this post, relevant part quoted:

People updating from FAR 0.9.4 to 0.9.5 should overwrite GameData/Squad/Parts with the GameData/Squad/Parts folder from their KSP download. Otherwise, bad things may happen."

Basically, you don't have the "stock" part.cfg files there anymore. If you backed up your Parts folder (as was suggested prior to the ModuleManager-based FAR release) then you can re-update from there. Otherwise, you'll have to go into the stock KSP.zip to get the relevant files. I think you might be able to use the patcher to "repair" KSP, which (I think) will restore the stock config files.

TL;DR: The stock cfgs are not stock; you have not properly reverted them. Doing so will revert the engines to what they were.

Also, the "ramjet" part is because the engines are capable of running up to ~Mach 5. Turbojets run out of thrust long before then due to the heat caused by compressibility effects. Adding ramjet in there is to try and justify this by indicating that it functions in the same way that the SR-71's engines functioned.

[Clamps]

But I did that. I downloaded the game again and overwrote the parts folder, then installed the new FAR. Right when you first released it because the b9 drag was driving me crazy.

Good explanation. I like using the ramjets, I just want a wider variety of engines to choose from. Single player and all that, you know how it is. Now that I just overwrote my parts folder from my backups(and will edit the cfg again), will I not have the ramjet anymore? Because I still want it. That's why it's frustrating not having an actual part folder like I'm used to dealing with.

Edit: Got it working. No ramjet though I renamed the jet in both fields of the part.cfg(before i only did one) so now i'll load up the unedited modulemanager cfg and see if I can get both with a non renamed jet folder present.

Could you please upload the part.cfg of a proper turboramjet so I can put it in my parts folder? I'd like to get everything in order. Even with the unedited far cfg it won't make a ramjet, I just have two regular stock jets.

NEVERMIND I got it working right. Too bad it didn't load a bunch of my planes in orbit since I changed the name of the stock engine and gave it the ramjet velocity curve and power. That was definitely a mistake not just making another folder. I guess once the "wasn't loaded" message pops up its gone forever right? I never saved any of those planes I had in orbit. Oops.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Clamps

[ferram4]

Have you gone and edited the "title" field? That's the one that controls the name. Just look for "Turbojet Engine" or something like that and change it to "Turboramjet Engine." It's just a string in the config file.

If you mean "I want a copy of FAR's modified engines to go along with the stock engines, here's what you do:

Go into the parts folder.

Make a copy of part.cfg; name it something like FARengine.cfg.

In that new cfg, change the "name" field or else KSP will have an aneurism.

Scroll down to the "ModuleEngines" section.

Open up the FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg from the zip.

Copy the thrust and velocity curve modifications.

Find the "title" and "description" sections; change them to something unique.

You'll essentially be doing manually what ModuleManager does, but creating a new part; by keeping the new config in the same folder as the old one you can avoid making copies of the textures and models (which is what B9 Aerospace does).

Or, if you're feeling super-lazy: This link is to v0.9.4 if you don't have a copy of it saved; pull the correct part.cfg files out, rename them, put them in the proper folders and it'll have the same effect.

[Clamps]

I got it straightened out

I experienced the KSP freakout with the Hello world ship title and no parts list, that was interesting to say the least.

Thank you for the instructions though! I just happened to do all that right before you posted it. Repped.

[astropapi1]

Every plane I try to design now crashes into the ground.

I had a good run using the propeller parts from the firespitter pack (like the ones they're doing on the Space Race series, which uses FAR BTW), but now every plane I make using the same technique either steers horribly to the right on the runway, or starts pitching down, making me have to trim up a lot. What am I doing wrong?

I match the CoM and the CoL, make sure all of my control surfaces will work as intended, See the graphs and pretend I understand them, and then try to fly them normally... They simply won't work.

I decided it would be easier to have a space shuttle with FAR, so I started designing one and went to test it's gliding capabilities and it wouldn't even get off the ground.

Guess I'll have to uninstall FAR until I know what's going on.

[ferram4]

@astropapi1: You should post pictures of your planes so we can figure out what the problem is. I suspect that you think that the CoL is where it should be, but it actually isn't. Also, the help windows (see the "?" on the GUI? those open windows with information) will help you understand what everything means.

If your plane steers one way or the other on the runway, that means that your landing gear aren't staying straight; make sure that they are perfectly straight and aren't shifting at all during the ground roll. Use struts if necessary.

If you need a lot of pitch-up trim to keep it level then that means that either your CoL is too far back, you don't have enough control surfaces, or your engines are helping to push the plane downwards.

[White Owl]

If your plane steers one way or the other on the runway, that means that your landing gear aren't staying straight; make sure that they are perfectly straight and aren't shifting at all during the ground roll. Use struts if necessary.

Also, there's a problem with surface attaching things like landing gear and wing parts to some mod parts out there. On those parts, the gear will attach slightly off center, no matter what you do; it appears to be impossible to attach something perfectly straight. I don't know enough about 3d modeling and collision meshes and whatnot to say why this is... I just know it's a problem.

If you attach a landing gear part, and drag it forward and aft to choose the best spot, watch for the part kind of wiggling back and forth as you drag it. If it wiggles, you're probably better off attaching the gear somewhere else instead of trying to fix it. Less frustration that way.

The same issue can cause a theoretically perfectly symmetrical aircraft to have seriously unbalanced wings and stabilizers.

[espm400]

Great mod, Ferram, I'm definitely enjoying spaceplanes a whole lot more. I had a quick question though. I was wondering if FAR would support lift on craft such as lifting bodies or whether they actually require wings, IMHO something that has been surprisingly absent from the mod community for this game.

For those unfamiliar with lifting bodies, check this page out ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifting_body ). Essentially, a lifting body is the opposite of a 'flying wing,' in the sense that a flying wing is a wing without much of a fuselage, a lifting body is a fuselage without much of a wing that's designed to get its lift from the shape of its body (surprise), rather than its wings.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there, as I think they could make for some small, reusable, and efficient crew transfer/return vehicles.

[ferram4]

You should check out the jet-powered cruise missile included with FAR; it uses body lift to stay in the air. Lifting bodies can be used, they're just less effective at lifting at subsonic speeds.

[espm400]

Wilco, don't think I have that part, guess I have to update the mod and check it out.

[foamyesque]

ferram: I think FAR is treating DRE's heatshields as a nosecap.

No heatshield:

With heatshield:

Pods and orbits otherwise identical. I would expect the additional weight of the heatshield to create a higher terminal velocity and slower deceleration, but note the hugely decreased Cd; it's identical facing forwards or backwards.

[ferram4]

Is the attachnode size correct for the heatshield? If it isn't then the drag value will be much smaller than it should be.

[foamyesque]

Is the attachnode size correct for the heatshield? If it isn't then the drag value will be much smaller than it should be.

I'm not sure what "correct" is, but here's the .cfg:

// --- node definitions ---

// definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, 0.05, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.145, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

[White Owl]

Great mod, Ferram, I'm definitely enjoying spaceplanes a whole lot more. I had a quick question though. I was wondering if FAR would support lift on craft such as lifting bodies or whether they actually require wings, IMHO something that has been surprisingly absent from the mod community for this game.

For those unfamiliar with lifting bodies, check this page out ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifting_body ). Essentially, a lifting body is the opposite of a 'flying wing,' in the sense that a flying wing is a wing without much of a fuselage, a lifting body is a fuselage without much of a wing that's designed to get its lift from the shape of its body (surprise), rather than its wings.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there, as I think they could make for some small, reusable, and efficient crew transfer/return vehicles.

If you aren't afraid of clipping parts together, you can closely approximate a lifting body using FAR and Procedural Wings. Just increase the pWings' root size until the fuselage mostly disappears inside, and blend the two structures together with smaller pWing pieces. The result will look and fly very much like a true lifting body.