[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Drew Kerman]

Try the dev build on the master branch and see if that fixes your issue. I just fixed a rather critical voxelization error and I wanna see if that got it; if it did, I just need to do some testing and then a patch can be released to fix other bugs.

Negatory, same issue remains. Just to be sure I did it right - I was supposed to go to the Github site, make sure Master branch was selected, click Download ZIP and install the folder that was in GameData right?

[123nick]

will anything bad happen if i uninstall far from my ksp, then run a save file where FAR was installed? would any MM patches get messed up, any files deleted, craft files not loading properly etc?

[ferram4]

@sashan: That's in the current dev build as a fix, though I dislike that method.

@Gaiiden: Yes, that's the correct procedure. Well, then I'm gonna need you to figure out how to reproduce it with minimal mods and steps; there's absolutely nothing that FAR puts in the save file, so something must be different with the deployed vehicle compared to the one spawned on the ground. I need to know what that is, and until that happens, bugfix release with other crucial voxelization fixes gets held up.

No, don't just say that it's not an issue because you found a workaround; workarounds should be unnecessary, and until I have enough info to reproduce the issue with the bare minimum, I can't fix it.

@123nick: FAR itself won't. If you're using a mod that adds parts that (for whatever reason) depends on FAR, then those parts might not load, and then you'd get issues.

[Drew Kerman]

No, don't just say that it's not an issue because you found a workaround; workarounds should be unnecessary, and until I have enough info to reproduce the issue with the bare minimum, I can't fix it.

Sorry, but right now I only have time to investigate/solve issues that actually prevent me from playing, and this is no longer one of them. When I am able, I will certainly look into this more but I can't say when that would be so don't go holding anything up on my behalf

[ferram4]

Nope, sorry, not moving forward with a release until this is fixed. This is a game-breaking bug that possibly extends to breaking aerodynamics completely on the affected crafts. One of the tell-tale signs of voxelization completely breaking is that everything on the vehicle is stowed, and if I release with that bug still existing it means that I'm slating another bugfix release in between the upcoming one and either the first pass of the wing overhaul / Unity 5 + KSP 1.1 compatibility update.

I'm not going to release a bugfix release with a gamebreaking bug still existing if I know it's there and I haven't made progress on fixing it. So at this point, since you're the only person who's reported this, please, provide all the info you can, the saves, logs of the issue occurring, the craft file, mods needed, and anything you know about how to reproduce the issue. Otherwise I'll simply delay the release until I, you, one of my testers, or someone else provides the info needed to make things work. No half-assery when there are game-breaking bugs afoot.

[TheHengeProphet]

Okay, I've found an interesting issue, but I can't figure out how to reproduce the error properly. I created a plane (pictured below), and designed it to have remarkable AoA values. At some point, when I loaded the plane in the VAB after a flight (because I noticed it was not flying like it used to), its AoA values changed drastically (both values are pictured below).

Edit: This may all be a calculation issue involved with initially building a craft or adjusting it. It's hard to tell, so I've tried making craft with very impressive AoA profiles, and sometimes they seem to have what was stated, sometimes they don't. I'm baffled here.

Now, the biggest issue here is that if I load this plane, it causes the AoA values in every other plane I load afterwards to change in a similarly drastic way. It also appears that every craft loaded after that is forever tainted. So... test with caution?

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Craft file here: MRF-5 Spite

The cockpit is from QuizTech Aerospace, and the wheels are BahamutoD's Adjustable Landing Gear. Edit: BD Armory is also on there. Forgot about that.

Edit: Looks like something has completely broken, as it's affecting every craft, and I'm going to have to re-install KSP again. Not entirely sure if this craft is the culprit, but it seems to happen every time I load it. If it doesn't occur on initial load, raise the landing gear and run the sim again, then reload the craft and repeat. That's what does it for me.

Edit: I may have reproduced something like it. It certainly seems similar. I built a small plane just to test out if reloading a craft would completely change it's AoA profile. Lo and behold, it did; however, I am unable to tell if this is a reproduction of what is going on, or caused by it. Interestingly, the stall points stay roughly the same if I simply remove the wings, which seems... odd.

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Edited September 4, 2015 by TheHengeProphet

[ferram4]

Welp, then that's a bug in the legacy wing system. Okay, I see what's wrong; it's not properly updating when attaching new parts, and the loaded version was correct. That has now been fixed.

[CrisK]

Ferram, I've run into the same problem as TheHengeProphet. I created a plane that had terrible AoA values, and now all of the crafts on my computer (including my old save files) now show similarly poor AoA values. Quitting and reopening doesn't fix this. In fact, FAR seems to apply the same AoA values to every plane after the first bugged one. I can load crafts built by other people and FAR shows the same poor AOA performance.

This is pretty frustrating.

You can see that I tried to get FAR to recalculate the values by raising and lowering the landing gear again. The AOA values remained the same on 4+ different crafts.

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Edit: mods are installed manually. Here's a list:

FAR

MK2 Expansion (not used in any of the crafts)

Kerbal Joint Reinforcement

B9 Wings

Adjustable Landing Gear

BDArmory

Edit 2:

This bug has seemingly corrupted every craft in my save file. I rebuilt built one of the planes with only stock wings and it shows the same AoA values.

Edit2: I can make a plane with completely stock parts and it shows the same AOA data, even if I raise/lower the landing gear, reload the game, etc.

Edited September 4, 2015 by CrisK

[Drew Kerman]

please, provide all the info you can, the saves, logs of the issue occurring, the craft file, mods needed, and anything you know about how to reproduce the issue.

Ok, I'm still not going to focus time on this issue but here's something else I found that may help. The original craft file, when I load it into v1.0.4 the IR actuators that control the deployment of the solar arms are not visible - at all. I even used WASD Editor Camera to move the camera up into the RCS tank and couldn't see them.

That's not how they appear in the flight scene, where they look like the last image I included. Mods needed: Smart parts, AIES, KW Rocketry, NearFuture Electrical, HullcamVDS, Infernal Robotics, Tweakscale and these RCS tanks no longer included in KW Rocketry.

Log of the issue

Save file vessel{} node

[blowfish]

CrisK: ferram4 confirmed and addressed the bug one post above yours. Go download the dev version from Github and see if it's fixed.

[CrisK]

CrisK: ferram4 confirmed and addressed the bug one post above yours. Go download the dev version from Github and see if it's fixed.

Thank you, I will do so.

You could have written that in a more polite manner.

I appreciate the work Ferram does and I try to help by politely reporting bugs.

Edit: the bug persists.

Here is what I tried:

1. I completely deleted my KSP installation and downloaded a fresh install.

2. I installed FAR, KerbalJointReinforcement, and b9 wings.

3. I created a new game in career mode.

The bug persists across any craft file with stock or b9 wings. I can do insane things like change the width of the root of the wing to 10, offset the tip by 5, make the thickness incredibly thick, etc. and the bug remains. Basically, once the bug occurs the entire save file is broken.

Edited September 4, 2015 by CrisK

[ferram4]

@Gaiiden: Well, I can confirm with the saved craft... do you have any different craft that also exhibit this issue? Do you have any identical craft that don't? Where are they orbiting / what speed are they orbiting at?

Edit: nvm, found it. Fixed it.

@CrisK: I don't see what bug you're talking about. All the data you're showing shows highly swept wings (with nearly the same, but not identical shapes) having nearly the same, but not identical lift slopes. The lowest manages 25 degrees AoA before stalling; the other 35 degrees. Those are both amazing angles of attack to reach before stalling and are absolutely correct. From what you actually showed (not much) of the earlier crafts, they all have identical wing configurations... which means they should have identical liftslopes and stall performance.

I don't see any bug with the dev build, I think you're simply mistaking correct behavior for bugged behavior and vice-versa.

Edited September 4, 2015 by ferram4

[CrisK]

Ferram, I'm probably describing this wrong. Once that AoA bug manifests on one plane, FAR applies the same AoA analysis to every plane in the SPH. It doesn't mater what the wing shape is. I created a few extreme examples for you:

After experimenting with this, I think that it may be a problem with b9 procedural wings and FAR. If I only use stock parts and wings, the bug does not manifest. If I use a b9 wing, the bug remains even if I remove the b9 wing.

[Nansuchao]

What if you try to completely remove the wings?

[123nick]

will there be support for x64? i heard that in 1.0.4, with the community hacked 64bit version, it actually works surprisingly well, just some far arithmetic errors in the log, and an out of index exception or something, im pretty sure i made a post about it before, here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117224-Windows-64-bit-community-workaround?p=2176560#post2176560 i know u don't support 64 bit, but please, can anyone help me? thanks in advance

[tetryds]

@Crisk: those are not the same graphics, the lower one takes higher AoA before stalling but has a lower peak L/D, just like it should.

[TheHengeProphet]

Tetryds, I believe CrisK is posting those images to be referenced against the ones in his previous post. They could presented a little better with albums, though... I have yet to test out the dev build to see if the alterations worked, because labor day weekend. Woo.

[CrisK]

@Crisk: those are not the same graphics, the lower one takes higher AoA before stalling but has a lower peak L/D, just like it should.

They're to be referenced against the pictures that I posted earlier.

What if you try to completely remove the wings?

If I remove the wings then the AoA returns to normal.

@Gaiiden: Well, I can confirm with the saved craft... do you have any different craft that also exhibit this issue? Do you have any identical craft that don't? Where are they orbiting / what speed are they orbiting at?

Edit: nvm, found it. Fixed it.

@CrisK: I don't see what bug you're talking about. All the data you're showing shows highly swept wings (with nearly the same, but not identical shapes) having nearly the same, but not identical lift slopes. The lowest manages 25 degrees AoA before stalling; the other 35 degrees. Those are both amazing angles of attack to reach before stalling and are absolutely correct. From what you actually showed (not much) of the earlier crafts, they all have identical wing configurations... which means they should have identical liftslopes and stall performance.

I don't see any bug with the dev build, I think you're simply mistaking correct behavior for bugged behavior and vice-versa.

Just one more thing - the chart's set to be out of 75 points. The plane's AoA is 18.

Before the bug manifests itself the AoA is around 65. I can raise and lower the gear all day and it stays the same.

As soon as it manifests itself in one craft, the AoA of all of my crafts hovers around 18-20. Even if they use stock wings. After more testing I've concluded that it's definitely something to do with B9 wings.

To clarify even further, here's a scenario.

1. Craft A has an AoA of 30 with the landing gear raised.

2. I add a B9 wing.

3. I remove that B9 wing.

4. Craft A now has an AoA of 18.

Edited September 5, 2015 by CrisK

[Nansuchao]

How they work in flight? Do they follow the graph or not?

[Gryphon]

will there be support for x64? i heard that in 1.0.4, with the community hacked 64bit version, it actually works surprisingly well, just some far arithmetic errors in the log, and an out of index exception or something, im pretty sure i made a post about it before, here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117224-Windows-64-bit-community-workaround?p=2176560#post2176560 i know u don't support 64 bit, but please, can anyone help me? thanks in advance

AFAIK, FAR does work for 64-bit KSP on Linux.

As I recall, Ferram and other mod devs aren't interested in supporting 64-bit KSP on Windows as long as it remains unstable enough to regularly cause bug reports that turn out to be due to 64-bit Unity wierdness under Windows, rather than actual bugs with the mod.

[123nick]

AFAIK, FAR does work for 64-bit KSP on Linux.

As I recall, Ferram and other mod devs aren't interested in supporting 64-bit KSP on Windows as long as it remains unstable enough to regularly cause bug reports that turn out to be due to 64-bit Unity wierdness under Windows, rather than actual bugs with the mod.

i know, but ive been hearing that in 1.0.4, theres not nearly as much unstabability with 64bit ksp, unlike in .90 and etc. maybe they could try it again? release a 64bit beta? idk.

[Johnhiii]

Does this mod work with steam on macs? I cant get it to work as there is a file in the folder that is not working with the my KSP. I tried removing all my other mods but still get this message.

[Drew Kerman]

Edit: nvm, found it. Fixed it.

I'm really glad that helped. Sorry for being a bit uncooperative there

[BudgetHedgehog]

i know, but ive been hearing that in 1.0.4, theres not nearly as much unstabability with 64bit ksp, unlike in .90 and etc. maybe they could try it again? release a 64bit beta? idk.

Yeah, still not happening (I do agree with you though). You gotta either recompile it yourself without the block or wait until ferram4 decides the stock Win64 is stable enough.

[zomos]

I have a problem... since something updated with CKAN(propably FAR i think...) I got all my planes disintegrated at some point of flight totaly... I looked for log and I get a lot of exceptions like :

[EXC 23:05:29.056] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VesselIntakeRamDrag.ApplyIntakeDrag (Single currentRamDrag, Vector3 vesselVelNorm, Single dynPres, Boolean checkNull)

FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VesselIntakeRamDrag.ApplyIntakeRamDrag (Single machNumber, Vector3 vesselVelNorm, Single dynPres, Boolean checkNull)

FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.FARVesselAero.CalculateAndApplyVesselAeroProperties ()

FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.FARVesselAero.FixedUpdate ()

I can also attach a log if you want.