KSP 2 Idea - automated background missions

[PiPaLiPkA]

TLDR: Missions you have conducted are recorded and can be automatically conducted again.

In my opinion, Kerbal Space Program (1) was very much Kerbal Space Mission. You didn't really run a program, you conducted missions with some added spice (in career).

I personally always have tried to mod KSP to be more 'program' than mission, but it never really worked. I figured this is because running an entire space program requires a lot of micro-management which simply isn't fun. The main issues I encountered were resupply missions, grinding contracts for money and gathering science.

Resupply missions can be managed for you with mods, but it still did not feel like a program because frankly, the whole Kerbol system felt dead. As in nothing happens in it unless you do something. Even with the modded resupply missions they still just teleported crafts around.

Grinding contracts for money was a real point of contention for me because in a real space program there are a lot of practically the same missions yet generally you do not want to grind the same launch 100 times.

Gathering science was obviously an issue for anyone that invested a lot of time into KSP. Most people say this is generally because the tech tree was very short, presumably this will be addressed for KSP 2 but I actually think there’s a deeper issue. Science gathering will always be too quick or too grindy. You don't want to send one or two missions to a body and have all the science you need from it, but you also don’t want to have to actually do several of the same missions especially if they're very elaborate and time consuming (e.g. multi launch missions to other planets).

With all this in mind to be the best KSP 2 can be, it needs an advanced automation system. I do not at all mean your mission gets automated through something like MechJeb because then the system map will still be dead and actually flying the missions is the best part of KSP. I mean background automation of missions you have already conducted. Let me explain.

The premise would be that when you conduct a mission you can record principally what happens to make the mission successful (or a failure). And then this recorded mission can be scheduled in to occur at a given time automatically.

This recording does not have to be anything intensive like knowing the exact angles/orientation of the craft at all times or even specifically where it is. Instead it would be more like steps (or I guess some sort of flow chart for multi launch missions). A lot of the CPU/GPU intensive stuff only needs to be processed if the player jumps to the mission.

For example, a resupply mission to a moon station could get recorded along the lines of:

Launch-Pad: 1A --> Orbit: 100km:90° --> Lunar-transfer --> Lunar-capture --> Rendezvous: Station --> Dock: Station

(staging would also have to be recorded in case the player wants to view the mission)

Each of these steps would then have a map view animation associated with that allows the craft to go from one step to the next following the proper Newtonian way rather than teleporting. Meaning you could potentially watch the entire mission play out in the map view if you wanted. It would not actually properly simulate everything it would just have to look good enough that you could not tell the difference. I think this would really make the game feel more alive and like you are actually progressing.

I don't know if I explained that well so let me know if it needs any clarifying.

This process could also be used to solve the grindy missions’ issue. Instead of contracts being offered to you, you offer a launch that can put X kg into Y orbit for Z cost. Then depending on how cost effective it is depends on how many contracts get offered to use said launch. These can then be scheduled in manually or if you upgrade some KSC facilities, automatically and bring in the funds needed to run the program without the grind. If pads had reconditioning times this could also force players to build multiple launch pads to accommodate the volume of launches.

The XYZ system could also be used for none contract uses. Imagine you recorded a mission that took 1 ton to an intercept with Mars. You then would be able construct a craft, within the tonnage and volume requirements, that you can schedule in and then pick it up when it arrives at Mars. This would greatly help with the learning curve of KSP, especially when going to other planets. If a new player is having many failures, the repetitive part of the mission is reduced as they can edit the craft to fix what went wrong and then schedule it in without having to repeat the entire mission. Its basically a none cheating way to add the solar panels you missed without having to repeat the mission.

Note: Missions that involve Hohmann transfers or other time sensitive manoeuvres would have to be limited to when they can be launched but I believe this could be calculated quite easily.

This also makes more complicated launches more attractive. A Stratolaunch style launch could have cost advantages, however they are also very time consuming. It would also have a similar system that allows these automated missions to launch from the moon or other bodies with the right colony modules.

You may be sceptical at this point, why do you just want to automate everything? Isn't flying the mission the best part? That is where another concept, 'events' come into play.

While automated missions run there is a chance that an event will occur. These events could be practically anything. They would be categorised into groups - Catastrophic, Critical, Significant, Marginal, Negligible, Neutral and Beneficial.

Some could be text notifications, others you would have to view. A system allowing the player to continue their current mission and jump back in time to these events would be needed. The chances of an event occurring could vary depending on research and data on the mission and parts used.

If an event occurs on a satellite mission you could write off a failure and take the reputation hit, a manned mission could have severe consequences. This would encourage players to build redundancies and infrastructure to salvage/rescue these missions quickly. The penalty for mission failure due to an event could vary depending on the nature of the event; It would be a tragedy to lose a craft to a micrometre, but it doesn’t make sense to lose much reputation for it. An event does not necessarily mean game over its supposed to present a challenge. This plays well into the mission recording; the mission profile is known so it would be possible to offer rewards or less penalty’s if certain parameters are met. For instance, if a Mars mission lost its lander you could still get rewards for returning the crew it just would not be the full amount. If a mission is conducted successfully even after a negative event it could lead to a reputation boost.

A final kind of stretch for this idea would be something I called tonnage transporters. You could record a mission where you deliver a dummy payload to a station or base. This mission could then be scheduled in automatically like other missions. The difference here would be that anything within the same tonnage and volume requirements (only resources) that exists at the point of origin, could be shipped to that base without having to interchange stuff within the craft. This works will with the developer’s idea of creating an interplanetary ecosystem.

Please let me know if anything here I mentioned is vague or doesn’t make sense and I’ll try to clarify. I’d like to know your thoughts on this idea, how it could be improved, issues and anything else.

Thanks for reading.

[The Aziz]

But.. it is going to be in the game.

[Leopard]

i like the idea of resupply missions, but also that you, the player, are at the cutting edge - get to the point where you have flown that refuelling tug a few times and then able to "automate" it and forget about it, the game not doing things you can't for you, but allowing you to automate the bits you have done.

I like mechjeb in career mode, by the time you have it you can do what it does reasonably, its then just helping - something similar where say when you have plotted a few transfers to other worlds yourself you get to automate them, but only about as efficiently as you did yourself

you still need to design the fuel tug and fly it, and say how often to fly it

[PiPaLiPkA]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

But.. it is going to be in the game.

It is? Apologies I haven't seen anything regarding a system like this do you have a link or source I can read?

[The Aziz]

11 minutes ago, PiPaLiPkA said:

It is? Apologies I haven't seen anything regarding a system like this do you have a link or source I can read?

Got it in the PCGamer article https://www.pcgamer.com/space-odyssey-our-first-big-look-at-kerbal-space-program-2/

[PiPaLiPkA]

13 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Got it in the PCGamer article https://www.pcgamer.com/space-odyssey-our-first-big-look-at-kerbal-space-program-2/

Ah okay 'delivery routes' seem pretty similar to this idea. I'm glad they're going to be added. Theses other things I've talked about that I don't think would be covered by that. Guess we're just going to have to wait and see what more they're adding.

[starcaptain]

If I understand correctly, the mission automation is probably going to be something like an economics "Resupply" page:

You do a mission, finish a goal, and then note it in the "Resupply" page (or whatever it gets called); now the mission you just finished is going to be reported to the Resupply as 'Resource/ExpenseTime". (For example: "1390 Xenon gas supplied, took 7 days 9 hours to arrive, cost 21000 funds to build and launch, minus the cost of recovered parts") A supply route is then opened between A and B supplying that Resource at that rate. If you want to get more supplies or faster or cheaper, you need to do another mission with an improved vehicle.

Such missions may be ambivalent about what constitutes a "mission" to deliver these resources. It could be a rocket or a spaceplane or a rover or a submarine. All the 'Resupply' page cares about is the bottom line: resources, time, price. 

[PiPaLiPkA]

15 hours ago, starcaptain said:

If I understand correctly, the mission automation is probably going to be something like an economics "Resupply" page:

You do a mission, finish a goal, and then note it in the "Resupply" page (or whatever it gets called); now the mission you just finished is going to be reported to the Resupply as 'Resource/ExpenseTime". (For example: "1390 Xenon gas supplied, took 7 days 9 hours to arrive, cost 21000 funds to build and launch, minus the cost of recovered parts") A supply route is then opened between A and B supplying that Resource at that rate. If you want to get more supplies or faster or cheaper, you need to do another mission with an improved vehicle.

Such missions may be ambivalent about what constitutes a "mission" to deliver these resources. It could be a rocket or a spaceplane or a rover or a submarine. All the 'Resupply' page cares about is the bottom line: resources, time, price. 

Ah so these delivery routes will basically be magically transporting resources round? As in no vehicle will actually travel on the map view it'll just take the supply from one place to the next.

[starcaptain]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:26 AM, PiPaLiPkA said:

Ah so these delivery routes will basically be magically transporting resources round? As in no vehicle will actually travel on the map view it'll just take the supply from one place to the next.

Kinda.

That's how I imagine it would be.

It would be, to a certain extent, mostly cosmetic to actually simulate missions going on for such economics, and you can imagine how tricky that would be to run real time in the background along with the planets and everything else. The only way it would become not cosmetic is if you rendezvoused with these automated resupply missions. Even touching them would stop it from being automated and then everything about what you're doing and what the computer thought it was doing goes out to lunch. Simpler to just "pretend" such missions are going on in the background.

[Mikenike]

On 11/7/2020 at 9:34 AM, PiPaLiPkA said:

TLDR:

THIS AIN'T REDDIT.

[SynX]

When playing with a bit of mods in a career save, I have to send crew to Minmus, and bringing back cargo for a profit. The first time is always fun, but the tenth time isn't. I can't agree more on automated cargo resupply missions or even crew transportation.