What would Laythes orbital parameters need to be tidally heated?

[Newgame space program]

I'd like to know because I'm thinking of editing its orbit to those parameters for realism.

[jimmymcgoochie]

It would probably need an elliptical orbit to get proper tidal heating due to Jool’s gravity, much like Io’s volcanism is driven by its elliptical orbit of Jupiter. Interactions with Tylo would also be a factor, again similar to Jupiter’s major moons but Europa in particular as it’s closest to the planet-sized Ganymede. Vall’s influence will also be a factor, assuming you aren’t looking at n-body physics because any time Jool’s moons and n-body physics meet Vall gets yeeted straight out of Jool’s gravity well in barely any time at all.

Move all three of those moons to orbits which are slightly eccentric, but with different arguments of periapsis so the distances between them are always varying, and you’ll get plenty of tidal heating. That’s where my physics knowledge ends, if you want to know what numbers to use you’ll need someone who actually understands such things.

[KerikBalm]

Compare:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)

To 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth

It's not really about the eccentricity. You could put Io in a perfectly circular orbit (it's already pretty close to it, closer than Earth is), and the motion of the other moons tugging on it would make small perturbations and heat it up, and you'd have volcanic activity and lava pits, hotter than needed to melt water.

Io is just too small to hold onto water vapor.

To make the Jool system realistic, a lot needs to change, it's not stable.

I ran a version of it in principia where I bumped jool's surfage G to 2.5 from 0.8 (to be more Jupiter like, less Saturn like), then I scaled down the large moons to about 2/3 their radius and surface Gs.

Then the system seemed stable on principia's n-body simulation

 

 

[Newgame space program]

On 4/4/2022 at 10:09 AM, jimmymcgoochie said:

It would probably need an elliptical orbit to get proper tidal heating due to Jool’s gravity, much like Io’s volcanism is driven by its elliptical orbit of Jupiter. Interactions with Tylo would also be a factor, again similar to Jupiter’s major moons but Europa in particular as it’s closest to the planet-sized Ganymede. Vall’s influence will also be a factor, assuming you aren’t looking at n-body physics because any time Jool’s moons and n-body physics meet Vall gets yeeted straight out of Jool’s gravity well in barely any time at all.

Move all three of those moons to orbits which are slightly eccentric, but with different arguments of periapsis so the distances between them are always varying, and you’ll get plenty of tidal heating. That’s where my physics knowledge ends, if you want to know what numbers to use you’ll need someone who actually understands such things.

Ok

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Newgame space program said:

On 4/4/2022 at 4:09 PM, jimmymcgoochie said:

It would probably need an elliptical orbit to get proper tidal heating due to Jool’s gravity, much like Io’s volcanism is driven by its elliptical orbit of Jupiter. Interactions with Tylo would also be a factor, again similar to Jupiter’s major moons but Europa in particular as it’s closest to the planet-sized Ganymede. Vall’s influence will also be a factor, assuming you aren’t looking at n-body physics because any time Jool’s moons and n-body physics meet Vall gets yeeted straight out of Jool’s gravity well in barely any time at all.

Move all three of those moons to orbits which are slightly eccentric, but with different arguments of periapsis so the distances between them are always varying, and you’ll get plenty of tidal heating. That’s where my physics knowledge ends, if you want to know what numbers to use you’ll need someone who actually understands such things.

Ok

I feel that KerikBalm's more accurate response is being overlooked here.

[Newgame space program]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

I feel that KerikBalm's more accurate response is being overlooked here.

Yeah but he is not giving the exact orbital parameters Laythe needs, Io is a volcanic hellhole, Laythe is a habitable moon

Edited April 6, 2022 by Newgame space program

[KerikBalm]

5 hours ago, Newgame space program said:

Yeah but he is not giving the exact orbital parameters Laythe needs, Io is a volcanic hellhole, Laythe is a habitable moon

Io lost all it's water because it's too small to hold on to water.

That's not true for laythe.

And the answer about bumping up eccentricity doesn't give specific parameters either and won't help the hellhole thing

[Newgame space program]

Io is not just too small to hold onto its water, its also too hot period because its too close to Jupiter, I need exact parameters for Laythe, not Io.

On 4/6/2022 at 11:19 PM, KerikBalm said:

Io lost all it's water because it's too small to hold on to water.

That's not true for laythe.

And the answer about bumping up eccentricity doesn't give specific parameters either and won't help the hellhole thing

I know that upping the eccentricity is not exact parameters either and I apologize for not upholding that standard to JimmyMcGoochie's advice.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Newgame space program

[KerikBalm]

44 minutes ago, Newgame space program said:

Io is not just too small to hold onto its water,

It is only 0.015 Earth masses.  You can't hold on to water vapor with that little mass. It's the driest known object. Even if you heated Earth's surface to boiling, it would still hold on to it's water vapor.

Venus is more humid than Io, it's not the heat, it's the tiny mass

44 minutes ago, Newgame space program said:

its also too hot period because its too close to Jupiter, 

https://www.space.com/16419-io-facts-about-jupiters-volcanic-moon.html

It's surface temp averages -130 C.

Also note that it's proximity to Jupiter means little without other large moons to tug on it.

The proximity means it tidally locked faster. It also means eccentricity led to greater heating (as constant rotation speed doesn't mesh with varying angular rate of change in an eccentric orbit), but it's orbit isn't very eccentric at all anymore.

Take away the other moons, and it would cool down.

Increase its mass, and it would have kept water vapor/ice.

Increase the mass of it and other moons, and maybe it could have liquid water

[Newgame space program]

21 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

It is only 0.015 Earth masses.  You can't hold on to water vapor with that little mass. It's the driest known object. Even if you heated Earth's surface to boiling, it would still hold on to it's water vapor.

Venus is more humid than Io, it's not the heat, it's the tiny mass

https://www.space.com/16419-io-facts-about-jupiters-volcanic-moon.html

It's surface temp averages -130 C.

Also note that it's proximity to Jupiter means little without other large moons to tug on it.

The proximity means it tidally locked faster. It also means eccentricity led to greater heating (as constant rotation speed doesn't mesh with varying angular rate of change in an eccentric orbit), but it's orbit isn't very eccentric at all anymore.

Take away the other moons, and it would cool down.

Increase its mass, and it would have kept water vapor/ice.

Increase the mass of it and other moons, and maybe it could have liquid water

Ah, thank you for clarifying.