KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[Elthy]

Isnt H170 limited to DDR2133?

Edited August 1, 2016 by Elthy

[Endersmens]

So, earlier I was told to avoid the small compact GTX 1060's because they likely would be noisier only having one fan. However, I've been reading lots of reviews of this particular card: http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=06G-P4-6163-KR And everyone is saying that a. it runs quieter than their CPU fan, and b. that they never see temps over 65C at all. That sounds pretty good to me, and it means I don't have to remove part of my case to fit a 11" card in. Also it's cheaper, and has a higher clock than the 279.99 MSI card I was looking at before. And it also has 1x DVI 1x HDMI and 3x Display Port. So it's faster than the MSI, and has the same capabilities, in a smaller and cheaper form factor.

Why should I even consider the MSI model?

[Alphasus]

1 hour ago, Endersmens said:

So, earlier I was told to avoid the small compact GTX 1060's because they likely would be noisier only having one fan. However, I've been reading lots of reviews of this particular card: http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=06G-P4-6163-KR And everyone is saying that a. it runs quieter than their CPU fan, and b. that they never see temps over 65C at all. That sounds pretty good to me, and it means I don't have to remove part of my case to fit a 11" card in. Also it's cheaper, and has a higher clock than the 279.99 MSI card I was looking at before. And it also has 1x DVI 1x HDMI and 3x Display Port. So it's faster than the MSI, and has the same capabilities, in a smaller and cheaper form factor.

Why should I even consider the MSI model?

Go with it then. It seems a better card. I made a sweeping generalization and was wrong.

[Endersmens]

1 minute ago, Alphasus said:

Go with it then. It seems a better card. I made a sweeping generalization and was wrong.

I was just making sure I wasn't missing something important. Wasn't criticizing your earlier advice, it made sense to me too before I read any of the reviews.  

[Alphasus]

5 minutes ago, Endersmens said:

I was just making sure I wasn't missing something important. Wasn't criticizing your earlier advice, it made sense to me too before I read any of the reviews.  

Yeah, I just was pointing out a trend in most compact cards.

4 hours ago, Elthy said:

Isnt H170 limited to DDR2133?

Fixed my post.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

2 hours ago, Endersmens said:

So, earlier I was told to avoid the small compact GTX 1060's because they likely would be noisier only having one fan. However, I've been reading lots of reviews of this particular card: http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=06G-P4-6163-KR And everyone is saying that a. it runs quieter than their CPU fan, and b. that they never see temps over 65C at all. That sounds pretty good to me, and it means I don't have to remove part of my case to fit a 11" card in. Also it's cheaper, and has a higher clock than the 279.99 MSI card I was looking at before. And it also has 1x DVI 1x HDMI and 3x Display Port. So it's faster than the MSI, and has the same capabilities, in a smaller and cheaper form factor.

Why should I even consider the MSI model?

Psst... RX 480's are cool too and they're cheaper and have good dx12 Vulcan performance

[Endersmens]

2 minutes ago, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Psst... RX 480's are cool too and they're cheaper and have good dx12 Vulcan performance

Which affects about....2 games.  Also, 1060 outperforms 480 is most tests (besides hitman, again, 1 or 2 games  ) Plus I like NVIDIA drivers and CUDA for blender.  

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Just now, Endersmens said:

Which affects about....2 games.  Also, 1060 outperforms 480 is most tests (besides hitman, again, 1 or 2 games  ) Plus I like NVIDIA drivers and CUDA for blender.  

Alright, fair game I wouldn't know much 'bout it tho, being a low midranger

[Alphasus]

2 hours ago, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Psst... RX 480's are cool too and they're cheaper and have good dx12 Vulcan performance

Except they aren't cheaper. And they win or tie about 35% of benchmarks, tie in most DX12 benchmarks, and lose by a good 10% in the majority of DX11 testing. That and Hitman 3 has many features catered to AMD cards like how GameWorks(out of use or optional in most games) caters to Nvidia cards.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Endersmens

Edited August 1, 2016 by Alphasus

[SpaceplaneAddict]

2 hours ago, Alphasus said:

Except they aren't cheaper. And they win or tie about 35% of benchmarks, tie in most DX12 benchmarks, and lose by a good 10% in the majority of DX11 testing. That and Hitman 3 has many features catered to AMD cards like how GameWorks(out of use or optional in most games) caters to Nvidia cards.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Endersmens

Aren't cheaper ? Weird. I secede my arguement.

[Alphasus]

11 minutes ago, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Aren't cheaper ? Weird. I secede my arguement.

Sorry, $10-$50 cheaper. But you saw said EVGA small sized 1060 that Endersmens showed? Right now, most if not all of the 480s are more expensive. Just check newegg. Only 2 cards are actually cheaper than $260. And both cards(1060 and 480) are out of stock everywhere anyways.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Alphasus

[SpaceplaneAddict]

16 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

Sorry, $10-$50 cheaper. But you saw said EVGA small sized 1060 that Endersmens showed? Right now, most if not all of the 480s are more expensive. Just check newegg. Only 2 cards are actually cheaper than $260. And both cards(1060 and 480) are out of stock everywhere anyways.

Yeah, that actually seems legit, supply and huge demand I suppose...

[Camacha]

1 hour ago, Alphasus said:

Sorry, $10-$50 cheaper. But you saw said EVGA small sized 1060 that Endersmens showed? Right now, most if not all of the 480s are more expensive. Just check newegg. Only 2 cards are actually cheaper than $260. And both cards(1060 and 480) are out of stock everywhere anyways.

The market is quite unruly at the moment. We should see a more clear picture in a month or so. Unfortunately, it is beneficial for stores to over-promise, which means that any cheap cards will likely have a huge lead time. In essence, they sell you a card at a certain price, and will start delivering only when they can get a card for that price. Experience tells us that it is likely they cannot provide the card for the price they promise at the moment. The lower the price, the longer you will likely have to wait, as they need the prices to drop before they can make good on their promise. In short, they are speculating with your money.

Of course, a card that does equally well or significantly better with modern techniques might be more interesting for future minded people. Vulcan seems to be promising and gaining fame and momentum, especially as you are not forced to migrate to Windows 10 to benefit from the technology. 20% gains are huge for cards in the lower top end.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Camacha

[Camacha]

It seems Microsoft released their anniversary update of Windows 10. Unfortunately they seem to persist in their push to the cloud and have actually removed various settings and ways to exclude certain privacy invading features. Notable is the fact that you cannot turn Cortana of through the IU any more. Of course, Cortana is now available in more parts of the world and you merely have to give Microsoft the right to access, index and collect a few bits of information: device location and location history, contacts, speech input, search history, calendar and appointment information and any content and history from applications that you use to communicate, like what you write in your mails or messenger apps and to whom, and your full browsing history if you happen to use Edge. Pretty much any sensitive information is fair game.

This is becoming unacceptable to the point that Windows 10 is becoming unusable in company settings. It is even questionable whether use of Windows 10 is allowed under various privacy laws is you do any processing of customer data on is. What a waste.

[Elthy]

Yeah, privacy under Windows 10 is awfull. What a shame, otherwise its a great OS i would have payed money for. On my Surface Pro 3 i had to do a lot of tweaks, on my PC i wont upgrade at all. I just secured a Win10 installation in case i need it for DeusEx Mankind Divided, but otherwise im hoping for Vulkan. Linux simply doesnt seem to be an option. Whenever i try to understand the stuff it completly confuses me, also performance seems to be worse even in games running natively.

[VaPaL]

Even after all the tweaks Windows 10 will still send info:

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/02/11/even-after-tweaking-your-privacy-settings-windows-10-is-still-a-privacy-nightmare/

[Camacha]

14 minutes ago, VaPaL said:

Even after all the tweaks Windows 10 will still send info:

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/02/11/even-after-tweaking-your-privacy-settings-windows-10-is-still-a-privacy-nightmare/

Yes, that is what bothers me the most. If you change your business model to include telemetery and fine grained network connectivity, I disagree with the vision, but hey, it is your company. However, making it utterly impossible to turn off telemetry and wilfully obfuscating that you are sending any, being terribly vague or implying things that turn our false when being asked about it and changing people's settings regarding the collection without ever asking them just seems insincere and feels a lot like intentionally harmful behaviour. It all seems to be designed to be as invasive and persistent as possible, while keeping operations as covert as possible. If their intentions are sincere, they are doing everything they can to make it seem otherwise. It seems hard to believe even a company like Microsoft would make such a huge PR mistake.

Like I said, I do not feel Windows 10 can be recommended for corporate settings. Without knowing what it monitors, how the data gets collected and stored and where it gets shipped off too, the OS is just too much of a liability.

[E-Rikkie]

yeah windows 10 is inches away from being classified as spyware

but here is some help

with o&o shutup you can disable a lot of settings in an easy interface

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

 

and with some powershell commands you can also remove useless apps which are not uninstallable through the gui

http://www.howtogeek.com/224798/how-to-uninstall-windows-10s-built-in-apps-and-how-to-reinstall-them/

 

hope this helps a bit

[cantab]

What I note is that just about everything nowadays - Windows, Android, Facebook, whatever - claims to offer "privacy" options but always adopts the approach of not private by default. That means it's hard, maybe even impossible, to know you're secure. I also regularly fear that any attempt to lock down privacy settings is futile because my personal information will already have flown the coop before I can even get to the settings.

[E-Rikkie]

10 hours ago, cantab said:

What I note is that just about everything nowadays - Windows, Android, Facebook, whatever - claims to offer "privacy" options but always adopts the approach of not private by default. That means it's hard, maybe even impossible, to know you're secure. I also regularly fear that any attempt to lock down privacy settings is futile because my personal information will already have flown the coop before I can even get to the settings.

for windows just install without internet connection, en-/disable all the privacy thingies and then connect it. for android you can do the same.

and i don't use facebook at all

[VaPaL]

I don't care much about it, since every site you go in will 'steal' info from you anyway. It's a 'dark side' of modern times, and there is not much one can do about it. You can mitigate, but... I don't think it's worth it. Some thinks yes, but I not willing to do it all.

Anyway, back to the topic. My PC is to be delivered soon (today or tomorrow, hope not Friday, but...) and what concerns me the most is applying thermal paste. What methods do you guys use? I heard it does not matter the most, just don't apply too much or too little is it true? How to measure too much or too little since I shouldn't lift the cooler after?

Thanks!

[E-Rikkie]

22 minutes ago, VaPaL said:

Anyway, back to the topic. My PC is to be delivered soon (today or tomorrow, hope not Friday, but...) and what concerns me the most is applying thermal paste. What methods do you guys use? I heard it does not matter the most, just don't apply too much or too little is it true? How to measure too much or too little since I shouldn't lift the cooler after?

Thanks!

Just google and look at youtube video's, that's the best advice, you'll get something like this, from asus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rn0BqMyXBM

i usually apply paste and use a piece of plastic (from clamshell packaging for example) to spread out the paste in a very thin layer.

 

[VaPaL]

@E-Rikkie Thanks!

I did searched, but every source said something, some said the X method, others the line, the pea dot, spread, others that it doesn't matter. As for quantity, they always say, enough to cover the heat spread and not overflow out side. But there's no way to measure it, they just eyeball it and done!

 

EDIT: I'm at work now, so I can't see the video with audio at the moment.

Edited August 3, 2016 by VaPaL

[Camacha]

7 hours ago, VaPaL said:

Anyway, back to the topic. My PC is to be delivered soon (today or tomorrow, hope not Friday, but...) and what concerns me the most is applying thermal paste. What methods do you guys use? I heard it does not matter the most, just don't apply too much or too little is it true? How to measure too much or too little since I shouldn't lift the cooler after?

Yes, as long as you do not apply too little or too much, you should mostly be good. Also, do not get it inside other parts, especially the socket. That seems obvious, but I have seen the things some people do and they are not pretty.

In the past I have applied thermal paste both through the rice grain/pea method, putting a blob in the centre and spreading it out by mounting the heatsink, and spreading it out manually. I have mostly used Arctic MX-pastes, which are a bit hard to spread. Possibly because of this, I found that the rice grain method does not cover the IHS all too well. Lifting the cooler sometimes revealed a partially covered IHS. This might have improved over time, as the paste becomes more malleable when heated. The repeated heating/cooling cycle should distribute the paste after mounting too.

I since adopted the manual spreading method. Some people will discourage this for fear of air bubbles, but temperatures have always been on par or better. Lifting the cooler also showed an evenly covered surface, without notable gaps or inconsistencies. Probably to the horror of some people, I have lifted and remounted coolers without reapplying the (fresh) TIM in the past too. No performance issues I could discern have ever arisen from it. It should also be noted that Arctic sells its heatsinks with an even layer of TIM already applied, which strengthens the belief that air pockets are not a big issue.

Of course, different people will have different opinions on this. A lot will have very strong opinions. I feel there are no major differences between the methods; if there were, they should have been pretty obvious. As long as you do not apply too much or too little - and there seems to be  a decent margin between the two - find a method that you feel comfortable with and that yields decent temperatures and be happy with it.

Edit: the ASUS video seems to pretty much tell us the same. Neat-o

 

21 hours ago, cantab said:

Anyway, back to the topic. My PC is to be delivered soon (today or tomorrow, hope not Friday, but...) and what concerns me the most is applying thermal paste. What methods do you guys use? I heard it does not matter the most, just don't apply too much or too little is it true? How to measure too much or too little since I shouldn't lift the cooler after?

Those privacy options seem mostly to be designed to appease (governmental) watchdog agencies. With those options, companies are already walking a fine line between civil rights and company interests. Without them, there would probably be a lot more government and watchdog scrutiny. The business model of these companies is collecting information and selling it in various ways. You cannot truly expect them to offer settings that will totally eliminate their interests in the deal.

It pains me to see Microsoft go down the same path. I would much rather pay good money for an OS, than to get it cheap of for free, but becoming the product. Having companies knowing more about people's habits than they do themselves bothers me quite a bit.

7 hours ago, VaPaL said:

I don't care much about it, since every site you go in will 'steal' info from you anyway. It's a 'dark side' of modern times, and there is not much one can do about it. You can mitigate, but... I don't think it's worth it. Some thinks yes, but I not willing to do it all.

With some basic precautions, you can mitigate a lot of tracking. It is your right to accept it, but that also means accepting any unwanted consequences.

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Camacha

[Robotengineer]

Quick question:

How much power is a 6700k OC'd CPU and GTX 1070 GPU build going to use? I would be air cooling and in it would be in an ATX case, if that matters.