Intercept UI indicator is confusing

[Spicat]

The 1A, 1B and 2A, 2B is confusing. It's even more confusing with the intercept I:1, I:2 and I:1, I:2 (but with an icon).

While I now understand how this work and what correspond to what. It was not intuitive at first. For a game that focuses on new players, I think the naming is complicated for no particular reason.

I think KSP 1 solution was good enough (with simple arrows). Here I don't know why there is 1A and 2B, like why the unnecessary digit? There is already the color.

It's a small nitpick but I think we should change it because new players might find it confusing (already saw a few).

Edited March 25, 2023 by Spicat

[BechMeister]

I have spend the past week building a space station. It took a while to wrap my head around it.. but i think it makes a lot of sense. I:2 shows where the object your trying to Rendezvous with is when you are on the place where your orbit intercepts. 

Lets say you perfectly match the orbit of what you try to rendezvous. then you will never intercept it. What i usually do is i make a eleptical path to the object i try to intercept. my station orbits at 110k km almost flat. So i will usually make a orbit that is 80k km to 200k km. This means you will intercept the path two places. Then i just wait for I:1 and I:2 to become close to each other. 

When they are pretty close, I use the blue navigation node to push my orbit out so I:1 and I:2 are right ontop each other. Then when im like 14km from the object i match the objects path by manipulating the blue node again  and i reduce the speed with the green one. After that.. its just a very tedious concentration heavy task to approach the object and dock with RCS thrusters.

 

The moon is a bit more tricky... I usually try to make the node at different places on the Orbit.. and when the path does something funky i know i've intercepted the moon. I kind of wished myself that it would show a ghost moon move with the maneuver node.

Hope it helps!

[The Aziz]

Well, the previous one at least shown i1 (ship position at intercept one) and i1 (target position at intercept 1), same with 2. A/B made it confusing. Ship and target icon should be there, because I keep mistaking and trying to align 1A with 2A. KSP1 at least had them orange and purple , not... Yellow and less yellow. Not to mention, once again, pixely font in node description. Get rid of it, please.

I know they're trying to have a sort of... How do you call it? Unified iconography? I think that, in the map view, and while things like Ap/Pe/de/ascending nodes are clear to understand, the rest kinda aren't.

The same way I don't know which direction of the SOI waves means the entering point. Crucial to know from which side of the body I'll be going when I enter, and the only place that points at entering/exiting points are on the trajectory around parent body. No idea how these correspond to actual target.

[BechMeister]

oh yeah! and its important you are 0.0­° to it.. your 2.2 on your screenshot

[Spicat]

 

@BechMeisterThanks but I am no beginner and know how intercept works but even doing it multiple time in ksp1, in the first few hours of playing ksp2, it was confusing.

Here how it worked in ksp1, simple yet perfectly understandable: 

For keeping visual consistency with the rest of the UI, I think they should do something like that (quick sketch I did):

And why do something different for intercepting a craft? I don't see the use case, it should be the same as intercepting a celestial body.

[The Aziz]

I'd even add a ship icon to the other ones - so you know that's where your current ship will be.

Another thing with KSP1 icons is that they never go over each other. One is on the bottom, the other on the top. Pinning them doesn't make them disappear under new infopanel. You just matched the same colored ones to make a nice close "target".

Edited March 25, 2023 by The Aziz

[BechMeister]

Ah.. my apologies,  I just assumed because your profile was also new

That is very interesting.. because i dont know how to read the one you're showing from KSP 1 - I have only experience with KSP 2... but i find that the KSP2 just made intuitive sense to me.

Edited March 25, 2023 by BechMeister
corrected error

[Spicat]

I did some sketching with a before (In game):

And after (My sketch):

It's not very well done but it gives an idea :

• 1A and 2A replaced by a digit + vessel icon to know it's where you are going
• Same with 1B and 2B replaced by a digit + target icon
• Different colors for interception path: Orange -> Yellow -> Red
• Same for their icon, blue icon for every step is a bit confusing. Especially when they are next to each other (like the two PE on Kerbin in the picture)
• Added a PE icon on the mun, I don't know if it's just a bug but I didn't have it (The only downside to this is that this is a duplicate from the other yellow PE but I prefer to see this in the Mun SOI)
• Put on top of the planet the Maneuver node because it's the most important thing, I don't want the planet to hide it.

[suicidejunkie]

21 hours ago, BechMeister said:

That is very interesting.. because i dont know how to read the one you're showing from KSP 1

There's an orange arrow and a purple arrow on your orbit.

There's an orange arrow and a purple arrow on the target's orbit.

 

I'm curious as to what other interpretation there could be.

[The Aziz]

22 minutes ago, Spicat said:

All that

I'd also add those SOI icons to SOI. It's not always clear which way you'll be going.

And color coding future orbits is also good.

[Buzz313th]

I'm going to guess that a lot of what you see in the UI are just placeholders for better icons and mouse overs.

 

Cheers

[BechMeister]

12 hours ago, suicidejunkie said:

There's an orange arrow and a purple arrow on your orbit.

There's an orange arrow and a purple arrow on the target's orbit.

 

I'm curious as to what other interpretation there could be.

I guess it doesnt help that most of the arrows are obscured behind the planet. So as a person who have never seen it before, you cannot descipher where they are pointing at. It just looks like a lot of arrows pointing x) - If i were to look around the planet.. it might make more sense to me.

I just visually understod KSP 2 better - but it may be because its more simple. 

[suicidejunkie]

I don't think 'more simple' can be true; there's about double the stuff on screen in 2, and a lot more text.

The specific example, and static screenshot without the ability to spin the camera may be an issue.

Does 2 not do the same thing if your orbit goes behind the planet?

[BechMeister]

Maybe... but like you said. Its a static image so I cant turn the angle and see. 

[NoKerbalsSky08]

On 3/25/2023 at 9:47 AM, Spicat said:

I think KSP 1 solution was good enough (with simple arrows). Here I don't know why there is 1A and 2B, like why the unnecessary digit? There is already the color.

Well the thing is, some players (including me), are colorblind so just the arrows are quite difficult to use, I think this new system is much easier to use. If you think it's confusing l, maybe they should have both options available in the settings.

[Spicat]

2 hours ago, NoKerbalsSky08 said:

Well the thing is, some players (including me), are colorblind so just the arrows are quite difficult to use, I think this new system is much easier to use. If you think it's confusing l, maybe they should have both options available in the settings.

I hadn't even thought of that, you made a great point and considering it I'm glad they changed it.

But, my complaint was more about the fact that we don't know what the A and B correspond to, like, is A your craft or the target? I think my solution is better (even for colorblind) which is with an icon instead of a letter :

On 3/26/2023 at 6:13 PM, Spicat said:

Spoiler

It's not very well done but it gives an idea :

• 1A and 2A replaced by a digit + vessel icon to know it's where you are going
• Same with 1B and 2B replaced by a digit + target icon
• Different colors for interception path: Orange -> Yellow -> Red
• Same for their icon, blue icon for every step is a bit confusing. Especially when they are next to each other (like the two PE on Kerbin in the picture)
• Added a PE icon on the mun, I don't know if it's just a bug but I didn't have it (The only downside to this is that this is a duplicate from the other yellow PE but I prefer to see this in the Mun SOI)
• Put on top of the planet the Maneuver node because it's the most important thing, I don't want the planet to hide it.