IVA Prop Rotation Key Explained (cfg ONLY)???

[KlunkWorks]

Ok, so i'm stumped. For several days I've been in the process of building a custom IVA using ASET props, by editing the iva.cfg (exclusively). I suspect that this is probably NOT the most efficient way of building IVA's, possibly  Blender/Unity etc? however, for various reasons, I'm trying to stay away from those options at the moment, mainly time. So far things have gone fairly well, a little  trial and error and things are moving along.... But then..... There are several parts that i'm trying to place in orientations other than flat in front of your face. The position and scale key's are pretty straight-forward - x/y/x axis. The ROTATION however , like what the actual?!?!? Either i'm crazy or it varies from part to part.

Can anyone explain what's going on here? I suspect that the rotation "ZERO" for each axis may be somehow defined in the model, thus it could vary from prop to prop. There seems to be no consistency between props of different origin that I can discern. I would very much like to be able to simply understand the rotation in order to quickly re orient props in the cfg the way I currently am able for position and scale.

Currently, as i'm seeing  it, the rotation key is as follows: 0,0,0,0  and the acceptable inputs are between -1 and +1  but for some parts (or perhaps orientations), its as if only 3 of the 4 fields observably effect rotation, but it doesn't seem to be the same three for each part, yet they all seem to do... something lol

To be clear, for many of the parts, ive had no problem, the rotation inputs seem to line up orthogonally, and through a couple rounds of experiments, i can find the appropriate angle, but for others, its as if 3 axis are oriented diagonally,  plus an extra number for fun,  or something idk lol.

[darthgently]

24 minutes ago, KlunkWorks said:

Ok, so i'm stumped. For several days I've been in the process of building a custom IVA using ASET props, by editing the iva.cfg (exclusively). I suspect that this is probably NOT the most efficient way of building IVA's, possibly  Blender/Unity etc? however, for various reasons, I'm trying to stay away from those options at the moment, mainly time. So far things have gone fairly well, a little  trial and error and things are moving along.... But then..... There are several parts that i'm trying to place in orientations other than flat in front of your face. The position and scale key's are pretty straight-forward - x/y/x axis. The ROTATION however , like what the actual?!?!? Either i'm crazy or it varies from part to part.

Can anyone explain what's going on here? I suspect that the rotation "ZERO" for each axis may be somehow defined in the model, thus it could vary from prop to prop. There seems to be no consistency between props of different origin that I can discern. I would very much like to be able to simply understand the rotation in order to quickly re orient props in the cfg the way I currently am able for position and scale.

Currently, as i'm seeing  it, the rotation key is as follows: 0,0,0,0  and the acceptable inputs are between -1 and +1  but for some parts (or perhaps orientations), its as if only 3 of the 4 fields observably effect rotation, but it doesn't seem to be the same three for each part, yet they all seem to do... something lol

To be clear, for many of the parts, ive had no problem, the rotation inputs seem to line up orthogonally, and through a couple rounds of experiments, i can find the appropriate angle, but for others, its as if 3 axis are oriented diagonally,  plus an extra number for fun,  or something idk lol.

Not sure, but this might be an insight you are missing if the rotations are quaternions as in .craft file

https://youtu.be/zjMuIxRvygQ

It is such a good video I almost grasp how to think with them after watching it at least 5 times over the last 5 years.  Quaternions don't mesh well with normal brain wetware 3d rotations and I understand math mostly  tactilely and visually which tops out at 3 spatial dimensions unfortunately

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by darthgently

[darthgently]

35 minutes ago, KlunkWorks said:

Ok, so i'm stumped. For several days I've been in the process of building a custom IVA using ASET props, by editing the iva.cfg (exclusively). I suspect that this is probably NOT the most efficient way of building IVA's, possibly  Blender/Unity etc? however, for various reasons, I'm trying to stay away from those options at the moment, mainly time. So far things have gone fairly well, a little  trial and error and things are moving along.... But then..... There are several parts that i'm trying to place in orientations other than flat in front of your face. The position and scale key's are pretty straight-forward - x/y/x axis. The ROTATION however , like what the actual?!?!? Either i'm crazy or it varies from part to part.

Can anyone explain what's going on here? I suspect that the rotation "ZERO" for each axis may be somehow defined in the model, thus it could vary from prop to prop. There seems to be no consistency between props of different origin that I can discern. I would very much like to be able to simply understand the rotation in order to quickly re orient props in the cfg the way I currently am able for position and scale.

Currently, as i'm seeing  it, the rotation key is as follows: 0,0,0,0  and the acceptable inputs are between -1 and +1  but for some parts (or perhaps orientations), its as if only 3 of the 4 fields observably effect rotation, but it doesn't seem to be the same three for each part, yet they all seem to do... something lol

To be clear, for many of the parts, ive had no problem, the rotation inputs seem to line up orthogonally, and through a couple rounds of experiments, i can find the appropriate angle, but for others, its as if 3 axis are oriented diagonally,  plus an extra number for fun,  or something idk lol.

That last link is one I'm glad I posted by accident as I decided to watch what I thought was the original vid I had in mind and it helped me a bit as well.

But here is the vid I meant to post which is a bit more in depth

 

[KlunkWorks]

22 minutes ago, darthgently said:

Not sure, but this might be an insight you are missing if the rotations are quaternions as in .craft file

https://youtu.be/zjMuIxRvygQ

It is such a good video I almost grasp how to think with them after watching it at least 5 times over the last 5 years.  Quaternions don't mesh well with normal brain wetware 3d rotations and I understand math mostly  tactilely and visually which tops out at 3 spatial dimensions unfortunately

 

thanks, now i have an entirely new rabbit hole to go down. Also seriously thank you!! lol. I'm watching the video now, didn't realize I was missing a BIG PICTURE concept lol. It's funny that you mention it not meshing well with normal brain wetware , so during the process of trial and error up until this point, it had actually occurred to me "gee, is it possible that they're using some system whereby 3d rotations are described in 4d coordinates?" but then i was like "no that would be silly, who does that?" lol Also you should know that i hadn't heard of quaternions before lol. I love that Oliver Heaviside initially said "the quaternion was not only not required but was also a positive evil" lol!!! Understanding this will no doubt be useful in life. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by KlunkWorks
spelling/grammar

[ColdJ]

@KlunkWorks

Sorry, haven't looked in here for a while. This is the explanation I have on my thread.

Quaternions

This is a rotational method used by KSP. It used for animations and for orienting Props in Internal models for IVA.

When you start a fresh project in BforArtists/Blender it usually is defaulted to Euler in the Item Transform in the main workspace. (where you see info on location, rotation and scale). Before creating an animation you will want to be sure all your Heirachy parts/meshes are set to Quaterions or else the animation won't work in KSP.

As said it is also used for orientation for stock props. Trouble is it is not consistent and some props are set up differently. For things like Atmosphere depth and Speed readout it is "first is second and negative in BFA2(X), last is first (W)"

e.g

    PROP
    {
        name = ledPanelSpeed
        position = 0.0,0.07,-1.9813
        rotation = 0.707,0,0,0.707
        scale = 1,1,1
    }

In this example the first number 0.707 is in blender in the X rotation box and a negative number. The last number 0.707 is found in the W rotation box and the same positive.

Took a lot of experimenting to get that worked out. Unfortunately The Throttle and the Nav Ball are different.