Vanila and plugins

[dendane]

Let me first say that I love this game, but like alot of people the only way for me to fully enjoy it is using plugins like for example Mechjeb. Sure I could ( and did ) land on other celestial bodies without it, but it was a very frustrating proces for myself, and it didn't really feel like a game anymore. With the help of Mechjeb and other plugins I made mun bases, colonized other planets, just had fun. Even going to sleep dreaming of my next missions

Now I'm afraid what will happen when / if after x ammount of updates the modders stop updating their plugins, and we are left with a vanila experience, no assisted ascend / landing, phase angle calculations, pro grad, retro grad on click of a button.....etc... Speaking for myself I would probably stop playing. And as far as I can see from the 'to do' list from the developpers, there isn't any mention of a Mechjeb type feature planned ?

I'm not asking for them to change the vanilla experience, as I'm sure a lot of more smarter people then myself love the challenge, but an option to have a 'computer' type module who would facilitate the experience ( like mechjeb ) feels like a must if they want the game to remain accessible to a more wider audience ?

What do you think ?

[Stevenator1]

Honestly, the entire game is possible to play vanilla. The only assistance that I have required when playing vanilla is a protractor. And yes, they have those in real existence, you don't need a mod for it

[SLAMS]

My method is to do each liftoff to landing on a new planet completely stock. Then, once you have done it once, you can use mods for fun.

[nhnifong]

Why are you worried that mechjeb will go away? It's open source. If r4m0n disappears, someone else will pick up the slack.

[Qumefox]

Playing (mostly) vanilla is actually what makes KSP fun for me

I use protractor and kerbal engineer redux for information displays, but that's pretty much it. All they do is remove (well, transfer rather, since anyone with half a brain would still end up making a spreadsheet to do most of the number crunching for them.) some of the math and perhaps a slight bit of build trial and error..

Making it to the other planets is so much more enjoyable when you do it yourself as opposed to just pushing a button and watching.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Qumefox

[dendane]

Honestly, the entire game is possible to play vanilla. The only assistance that I have required when playing vanilla is a protractor. And yes, they have those in real existence, you don't need a mod for it

I'm sure it is, and I'm sure you had fun doing so, but for me personally it's no fun, and judging by the amount of people using Mechjeb I'm sure I'm not the only one, that feels this way.

[dendane]

Why are you worried that mechjeb will go away? It's open source. If r4m0n disappears, someone else will pick up the slack.

I do know it's open source, but it could take weeks after every release before there is an update if r4m0n disappeared, just look at the awesome Kethane plugin.

Playing (mostly) vanilla is actually what makes KSP fun for me

I use protractor and kerbal engineer redux for information displays, but that's pretty much it. All they do is remove (well, transfer rather, since anyone with half a brain would still end up making a spreadsheet to do most of the number crunching for them.) some of the math and perhaps a slight bit of build trial and error..

Making it to the other planets is so much more enjoyable when you do it yourself as opposed to just pushing a button and watching.

It might be more enjoyable to you, but when you have an 11 month old todler who wants your attention 24/7 the ascent and landing autopilot is a godsend

[Qumefox]

It might be more enjoyable to you, but when you have an 11 month old todler who wants your attention 24/7 the ascent and landing autopilot is a godsend

You should have the kid's insomnia treated then. Because I do hear they should sleep every now and then. heh

[dendane]

You should have the kid's insomnia treated then. Because I do hear they should sleep every now and then. heh

If only they knew that

[CkGordon]

11 months old? Let him watch. Give him a disconnected keyboard and let him think hes flying the rocket. This game has cutesy characters, is educational, and tons of explosions. Seems like it'd be a great way to bond with your kid.

[dendane]

11 months old? Let him watch. Give him a disconnected keyboard and let him think hes flying the rocket. This game has cutesy characters, is educational, and tons of explosions. Seems like it'd be a great way to bond with your kid.

She does watch She even makes the rocket sound when liftup

[MrPwner]

I think people have different parts of the game they enjoy the most. Some people may enjoy the creating of spacecraft the most, or get a kick out of numbercrunching the physics, and others, like me, like the global planning and doing missions.

I use MechJeb for some things, but still like to do stuff manually. It even was a useful learning tool when my knowledge of orbital mechanics wasn't what it is now (thanks to KSP).

I really doubt plugins will one day just stop being made. As long as it's not in the vanilla game, there's bound to be someone that wants it and (another that) creates it.

You get to customize your own playing experience with them, and everybody wants a different one.

I do resent people that criticize you because you want a different experience from theirs.

Now for your actual question

I believe Harvester said he didn't want an autopilotmodule in the vanilla game, but don't quote me on that.

[CkGordon]

She does watch She even makes the rocket sound when liftup

LoL great! Get her hooked while she's young so that she'll be a space geek when she grows up! Anyway, you should play the game the way you'll get the most enjoyment out of it. If that means using autopilot so that you can still tend to your real life responsibilities then as long as you're still playing and being a satisfied customer squad did their job! Personally, I think alot of the stuff that the mods do will be included with future versions of the game. They already have the ASAS which keeps you level so I don't think adding in the Smart ASS functions would be too far fetched of a possibility somewhere down the developement cycle. As for auto takeoff and landing, who knows I guess its down to what the devs want for their game but I'm pretty sure the big mods will be updated for at least until the final release of the game comes out so I wouldn't worry about it especially seeing as Mechjeb is the biggest most popular mod out of all of them and is open source.

[bsalis]

As the community grows, you can expect more, not less mods. Popular mods will be picked up by others if the original devs discontinue work on it. There will probably be even better support for modding in the future as well. It's intended to be moddable so as to customise the game experience to your taste.

I believe Harvester said he didn't want an autopilotmodule in the vanilla game, but don't quote me on that.

I expect some automation. There is a planned feature to allow the crew control the craft.

[The Destroyer]

Ya know, I dont use MJ anymore. And ya know, I was just about to give it up, and let mechjeb do it, and land/fly my DEMV, BUT I DID IT WITHOUT MJ!

[Lesarthois]

I think people have different parts of the game they enjoy the most. Some people may enjoy the creating of spacecraft the most, or get a kick out of numbercrunching the physics, and others, like me, like the global planning and doing missions.

I agree. I do all the taking off/landing stuff manually; orbiting around celestial bodies, etc...

But I don't feel like doing the calculation to get to another planet, so, I prefer to let MechJeb doing this (once I'll understand how it works) but, as soon as I'll get in a planet's SOI, I'll go manual again

[SNapple]

I think people have different parts of the game they enjoy the most. Some people may enjoy the creating of spacecraft the most, or get a kick out of numbercrunching the physics, and others, like me, like the global planning and doing missions.

There's an idea for a thread.

"What's your favourite part of KSP?"

Personally, I love how failures can affect a mission, but not completely kill everyone and everything. You know, failures that don't matter too much.

I'll go make that thread. Hold my bear.

[PakledHostage]

Clearly MechJeb, Protractor, Kerbal Engineer, etc. are popular, but they are also controversial. I don't see them going away, but I hope the fact that they are controversial keeps them out of the vanilla game. For everyone who enjoys using mods like this, there's someone else who wouldn't touch them.

For me, crunching the numbers and planning my flights so that they can be executed precisely, despite the limitations of the vanilla instrumentation, IS the game. I probably spend 2 to 3 times more time planning my missions and designing my rockets than actually flying them. It is what has kept me hooked on this game longer than any other that I've played. I know I am not alone in this either.

Edited October 10, 2012 by PakledHostage

[Qumefox]

Clearly MechJeb, Protractor, Kerbal Engineer, etc. are popular, but they are also controversial. I don't see them going away, but I hope the fact that they are controversial keeps them out of the vanilla game. For everyone who enjoys using mods like this, there's someone else who wouldn't touch them.

For me, crunching the numbers and planning my flights so that they can be executed precisely, despite the limitations of the vanilla instrumentation, IS the game. I probably spend 2 to 3 times more time planning my missions and designing my rockets than actually flying them. It is what has kept me hooked on this game longer than any other that I've played. I know I am not alone in this either.

I don't have much issue with protractor and KER. both just give you information. All either of them does is replace an actual protractor and spreadsheets. They also likely both give you information that will probably end up in the vanilla game at some point too, even if it's as a campaign mode unlockable module.

[superecnate]

I use Mechjeb because I love the Engineering aspect of the game, but I'm not thrilled by the transfers, so I only use Mechjeb for transfers, and land using the A.S.S. (except in emergencies).

[PakledHostage]

I don't have much issue with protractor and KER. both just give you information.

Right, but for a lot of players, they give too much information. Orbiter's MFDs give a lot of information too, but I have read comments from a number of regulars on these forums that they can't get into Orbiter they way they've gotten into KSP. I think that is because Orbiter is a space simulation, while vanilla KSP is more of a physics sandbox.

I think it is great that mods like Protractor, Kerbal Engineer and MechJeb exist for people that want to use them, but including their functionality in the vanilla game would only alienate those who don't want to use them. The way it is right now, we've got the best of both worlds.

[Qumefox]

I don't agree. The future information readouts and automation that get added to the game will most likely not be integrated permanently in the UI, say, like the altimeter, etc. My guess is they'll end up like our current mods.. They'll be modules you can add to the craft that provides them. If you don't like them, you don't have to add those parts to your ships.. Said modules will also mostly likely NOT be available early in the game. They'll end up being campaign mode unlockable parts.

They also WILL be needed, at least the info displays, to make a lot of progress in campaign mode once an economy gets implemented and and we stop having unlimited parts/resources. You won't be able to just continuously build/explode random ships and progress much. At least that's my hope.

WHat i'd like to see is this; (and I really don't know how much this coincides with what the devs envision)

Sandbox - just that.. unlimited resources/parts, all parts unlocked, do whatever you want mode.

Campaign - limited parts, limited budget. limited technologies until new ones are unlocked. Completing campaign missions/goals rewards you with larger budgets/unlocked technologies, etc. This mode should emphasise efficiency and doing things right, and reward the player for being as efficient as possible.. For instance; Unused budget for this mission will roll over to the next one.. and any ship parts, staging or otherwise, that are returned to the surface of kerbin intact, are able to be reused for future missions without having to rebuy them, or at least, can reuse them for a greatly discounted refurbishment cost. (say 1/4 of 'new part' price)

[PakledHostage]

They also WILL be needed, at least the info displays, to make a lot of progress in campaign mode once an economy gets implemented and and we stop having unlimited parts/resources. You won't be able to just continuously build/explode random ships and progress much. At least that's my hope.

But, with all due respect, it is possible to do these things without using the mods we've been discussing and without resorting to trial and error. There are plenty of examples in these forums.

Edited October 10, 2012 by PakledHostage

[royalkingofgames]

harvester said if there was ever to be a stock mechjeb then it would be you giving kerbals orders,but kerbals are kerbals so they will probably do it wrong(this would link in with skill

[Qumefox]

But, with all due respect, it is possible to do these things without resorting to using the mods we've been discussing and without resorting to trial and error. It just takes some planning.

Yes.. using an actual protractor held against your screen + math.. and anyone with half a brain is going to end up making a spreadsheet to do the math for them after going through it once or twice manually. That or using one of the online calculators. So in the long run it comes down to a) holding objects up against big expensive LCD monitors to measure angles repeated times, plugging numbers into a spreadsheet, and using said data do do your burns... Or using a mod that takes the place of holding objects against expensive monitors, and the afore mentioned spreadsheet.

If your 'planning' somehow manages to skip the whole 'holding things against your monitor' stage, then i'm all ears. Though I don't see how it does.. If your not using a mod that measures the angles for you, your doing it yourself mechanically.. which is the part *I*, and i'm sure many others with monitors they'd rather not see scratched. would prefer to avoid.