Lagrange Proyect

[LucalisIndustries]

 

Lagrange Proyect is the response to "I want Lagrange points but don't want to (or can't) use principia"

 

Done:

Stock:

• Every Stock system Kerbol-Planet L1 and L2 points and the Mün and Minmus L1 and L2 points.

 

• Stock systems moons eccepting Mün and Minmus are messy, and barely used, however, if you want some moon leave a comment and I'll add it.

KSRSS reborn:

• L1 and L2 for the Sun-Earth and Earth-Moon.
• working to add Mars, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn.

Posibilities:

JNSQ:

• Kerbin-Moon and Sun-Kerbin system. (sorry, i dont know the jnsq names)

 

• Currently not possible to implement since I don't have the JNSQ bodies periods.

 

Open to suggestions about other planetpacks.

 

Depenidencies:

Stock: 

• Kopernicus.

 

Compatibilities:

• Should be compatible with any rescale mod, or mod that modifies the stock system without changing the internal names of the planets.

 

Download links:

 Spacedock

Edited June 7 by LucalisIndustries

[Kerbart]

I don't really care for Lagrange points but I always felt that this was a rather obvious solution to having them with patched conics. Glad to see someone took the effort to figure out how to make it work! I suspect they act like tiny gravity wells without an actual surface?

[LucalisIndustries]

1 minute ago, Kerbart said:

I suspect they act like tiny gravity wells without an actual surface?

Something like that, kopernicus doesnt allows you to totally disable the surface of a body (by now as long as you're over 100km you wont see anything), so theres some kind of shadow of it, and also the shadow it produces when its in front of the sun.

[Kerb24]

Is it available for JNSQ, or is that still in development? (I'm unsure from how the post is structured)

If/When it is available, I'm definitely getting it!

[LucalisIndustries]

1 minute ago, Kerb24 said:

Is it available for JNSQ, or is that still in development? (I'm unsure from how the post is structured)

If/When it is available, I'm definitely getting it!

Still working on creating them, once I have KSRSS ready I'll work on JNSQ

[Ravenspetdragon]

Instant essential mod for me, love it and keep up the great work. 

[LucalisIndustries]

18 hours ago, Ravenspetdragon said:

Instant essential mod for me, love it and keep up the great work. 

Thanks!, I'll proably add the L1 and L2 for every stock planet

[pbristow]

Very handy for anchoring satellites in realistic places, and I'm glad someone's finally done it, thankyou! =:o}

However, people need to be aware that this won't emulate how real Langrange points actually behave (which is *way* different from the gravity around a planet or moon!).
[EDITED TO ADD:]
In two dimensions, the "gravity" of an L1 or L2 Lagrange point behaves more like that *inside* a planet, than that outside: Zero at the centre, and increasing linearly out until you're far enough from the line joining the two real masses that the inverse-square law takes over, and pulls it back downward again; While in the third dimension (the one pointing directly toward or away from each of the real masses involved), it behaves more like *anti*-gravity, "pushing" your orbiting probe towards whichever real mass has the stronger pull.

In real life, any object with mass (to create the gravity) but no surface to bump into when you get too close, would be a black hole. In KSP, because of calculation precision limitations, it would basically behave like a somewhat random gravitic slingshot! (Anyone else remember the days when it was possible to accidentally fall inside a planet such as Moho, get accelerated all the way to the centre, and suddenly find yourself at the edge of the solar system on a rapid solar escape trajectory? =:o}  - Actually, maybe it's still possible... It's been a long time since I've tried...  )

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by pbristow
Expanded what I mean about the weird bahviour of real Lagrange points.

[Space Scumbag]

Really nice! That's something I have waited for a long time.

Already wondered why no one takes an approach like you did. Just some extra invisible points in space you can orbit around.

[LucalisIndustries]

1.0 Has been released

Changes:

Now every stock planet + Mun + Minmus has L1 and L2 points

 

Refered to KSRSS and JNSQ:

I'm not being able to implement them because I need the orbital periods of the planets,  to define them for the points to work, so by now they're in standby

[LucalisIndustries]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:02 AM, Space Scumbag said:

Really nice! That's something I have waited for a long time.

Already wondered why no one takes an approach like you did. Just some extra invisible points in space you can orbit around.

IIRK some people attempted it before, maybe someone had did it before but never published, I was also wanting something like this and said: wait, how does the Kopernicus planets code works? and after understanding with the help of some people I got like: okay, time to work 

[pbristow]

I have some ideas for how to make these behave a bit more like real Lagrange points, but I've no idea if they are practical or even (in at least one case) possible to implement within KSP... But here they are, just in case anyone wants to try them out:

1. Change the shape of their "sphere" of influence into an oblate spheroid, with the short axis being the line between the two real bodies -i.e. the direction that shouldn't have any apparent gravity, but (slight) apparent anti-gravity. (Probably not practical, as it would mean changing KSP's calculation of when an SOI boundary is crossed.)

2. Hack a replacement for the inverse-square law into the gravity calculations specifically for Lagrange points, so that within their SOI you get an attraction that's proportional to distance from the centre. N.B. this would also mean that patched-conics could no longer be used for forward path predictions - But I'd suggest that could be handled just by putting up a warning message: "Lagrange point found on forward path. Do not trust trajectory predictions!". The game would also need to drop out of time-warp down into full physics mode whenever a vessel crosses into a lagrange point's SOI (a good reason to keep their SOIs small!).

3. If neither of the above are possible, just make their SOIs smaller, and their gravity weaker. This reduces the problem of getting an unwanted & unrealistic gravity boost/deflection from having a lagrange point "in the way" when you're trying to get somewhere else. (I hit that snag a couple of times when trying to get to Minmus, at a time when the Mun's lagrange point was right on my planned route and wanted to boost me right out of the local system into a Kerbolar orbit! =:oo )

Anyway, this mod has been fun to try out, and I look forward to any future developments. If you ever add the L3 and L4 points for Jool, I might have another go at creating my "grand hexagonal relay network". =:o} 


Ooh, one last idea: Can the lagrange for particular bodies be individually added/removed? Presumably it's just a configuration file change, yes? So I could set up my own version with just the lagrange points for the larger planets, say (Jool, Kerbin, Eve) and not for smaller planets or moons? OK, I should have a poke around in the mod directory myself to try to answer that question... =:o}  [EXITS STAGE LEFT, INSPIRED]

 

[LucalisIndustries]

37 minutes ago, pbristow said:

1. Change the shape of their "sphere" of influence into an oblate spheroid, with the short axis being the line between the two real bodies -i.e. the direction that shouldn't have any apparent gravity, but (slight) apparent anti-gravity. (Probably not practical, as it would mean changing KSP's calculation of when an SOI boundary is crossed.)

2. Hack a replacement for the inverse-square law into the gravity calculations specifically for Lagrange points, so that within their SOI you get an attraction that's proportional to distance from the centre. N.B. this would also mean that patched-conics could no longer be used for forward path predictions - But I'd suggest that could be handled just by putting up a warning message: "Lagrange point found on forward path. Do not trust trajectory predictions!". The game would also need to drop out of time-warp down into full physics mode whenever a vessel crosses into a lagrange point's SOI (a good reason to keep their SOIs small!).

I think this is straight up Impossible, KSP just calculates the SOIs by a radio, the shape can't be modified.

39 minutes ago, pbristow said:

make their SOIs smaller

I'll see what I can do about this, I think 500k is the right size, but maybe I can variate them for the smaller bodies.

40 minutes ago, pbristow said:

and their gravity weaker

Definitely have to make this, the gravity of the points is basically the minmus one, I'll se if I can make it be 1/2, 1/4 or something like that, the problem is on how KSP handles the bodies, a too low body size or mass can cause issues when switching the SOI.

41 minutes ago, pbristow said:

If you ever add the L3 and L4 points for Jool

Noted, I'll figure out how to get them.

44 minutes ago, pbristow said:

Ooh, one last idea: Can the lagrange for particular bodies be individually added/removed? Presumably it's just a configuration file change, yes?

any user can activate and deactivate them by searching the "LagrangeProyect" folder in gamedata, searching the planet/moon you want and change the file extention by adding or deleting .disable in the end of the file. (be sure to have the show file extentions activated)

46 minutes ago, pbristow said:

So I could set up my own version with just the lagrange points for the larger planets, say (Jool, Kerbin, Eve) and not for smaller planets or moons? OK, I should have a poke around in the mod directory myself to try to answer that question

any user can work on it's own vertion for private use, if you made something cool and want to contribute, tell me and I can publish as part of the mod and give you credits.

48 minutes ago, pbristow said:

Can the lagrange for particular bodies be individually added/removed?

I don't know how much possible that is, iirk Kopernicus doesn't works that way, it just reads the gamedata and loads whatever is there that calls it.

[Errol]

OPM?

[LucalisIndustries]

51 minutes ago, Errol said:

OPM?

I'll consider it

[Errol]

It is by far the most "stock-alike" planet pack. One thing to warn you about though, it does move Eeloo to become a moon of one of the gas giants, replacing it with something that physically resembles pluto a bit more, and is moved further out to be outside the added gas giants. So you would need to disable the lagrange points for Eeloo when OPM is present, to remain consistent with no Lagrange points for moons.

[LucalisIndustries]

1 hour ago, Errol said:

So you would need to disable the lagrange points for Eeloo when OPM is present

seems like a mayor compatibility issue in case someone uses the mod and OPM at the same time, I'll do a miniupdate to prevent this ASAP

[LucalisIndustries]

1.0.1 Released

Changes:

minor compatibility patch for OPM, Eeloo points are now automatically disabled if using OPM

[Sanchez_1]

When is KSRSS support planned for? I may have missed it in the OG post.

[LucalisIndustries]

41 minutes ago, Sanchez_1 said:

When is KSRSS support planned for?

working on that

[LucalisIndustries]

1.1 just released, KSRSS Sol-Earth Earth-Moon L1 & L2 added

[2316853886]

下载后将此模块放在哪里

[Moderator added translation]
Where to put this module after downloading?

Edited May 25 by James Kerman
Added Translation

[physius]

Hi, adding my vote for OPM support please :)

[LucalisIndustries]

On 5/25/2024 at 11:28 AM, 2316853886 said:

Where to put this module after downloading?

in gamedata, should work just with that

On 6/1/2024 at 12:48 PM, physius said:

Hi, adding my vote for OPM support please

Hi! would love to add it too, but would need the orbital periods of the OPM planets to create the points and I don't know if the creator of the mod would be open to calculate them or is still active

Edited June 7 by LucalisIndustries

[ScareCrxw]

Hey, I've been encountering an issue with the Duna L2 point where it seemingly 'disappears'. I can still see it on the map, target it, but whenever I'm close to it, it's sphere of influence just disappears and I'm ejected into the sun orbit. Haven't had that issue with any other point so far