Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[HoY]

Majiir, a question/suggestion if I may: Is it possible to have kethane or other material deposit likelihood/size/ubiquity depend on the body they're on? So, e.g. Duna has plentiful metal ore but not much kethane, Eve has more kethane than God, but good luck finding metals, or the like? It might be a part of the resource configuration to set these parameters.

Also, it's probably been suggested before (and I apologize if it has), but a kethane atmospheric scoop would be a truly awesome thing. Skim runs at Jool or Eve, for example, would be a very nifty way of extracting. :-)

That would be really hard to "scoop" while aero braking,, you would need to collect enough to be able to convert it then burn it to raise your apoapsis up again so you don't drop out of orbit, and on top of that still have enough left in the tank to have made that maneuver worthwhile. It would be interesting, and I could see it used for a super rare gas from jool or eve that has to be collected from lower down in the atmosphere so you only get on shot at it during an aero capture at interplanetary speeds, but a full time mining op would be impractical

[Elie88]

I have a bug with the mass, using the scanners after a while, my camera moves automatically as if the mass was completely shifted out of the ship, and if I use the keyboard keys the ship moves

I use Kethan 0.6, mechjeb 2 and remote tech

Edited June 18, 2013 by Elie88

[Autochton]

The section on Body nodes explains how to do this.

Cool! I hadn't seen that bit. :-)

It would be! I don't have any idea when or how it would happen, but it's definitely something I'd like to see.

That would be really hard to "scoop" while aero braking,, you would need to collect enough to be able to convert it then burn it to raise your apoapsis up again so you don't drop out of orbit, and on top of that still have enough left in the tank to have made that maneuver worthwhile. It would be interesting, and I could see it used for a super rare gas from jool or eve that has to be collected from lower down in the atmosphere so you only get on shot at it during an aero capture at interplanetary speeds, but a full time mining op would be impractical

Yeah, I'm not expecting it to be an easy thing to do, scooping gas - and probably most useful with FAR, where you can present a streamlined aspect to the airflow while scooping, and thus avoid braking too much. I'm guessing it would involve using a rather eccentric orbit, both so your apoapsis stays high even with the braking, and so you can raise periapsis when right near apoapsis, for fuel economy. Your aero-capture scenario, HoY, is intriguing as well. :-)

[Pontiac]

@Majiir> STOP UPDATING SO FAST! I've not even been able to use the Kerbal Blender as I've still been wrestling with the new drill!!! SLOW DOWN!!! {smirk}

JK man. Awesome work.

I'm at work so I can't verify, but, are you still using a single seed for all planets, or, does each planet get its own seed?

The reason I'm asking is if it is one seed for the entire solar system, and I'm mining in two different locations (As someone above mentioned between Eve and somewhere else when using the debug generator) and I generate a new seed for a location I'm sitting on, then, all my other sites get screwed over with new locations. However, if each body gets its own seed, then I can regenerate without affecting anywhere else.

[Majiir]

I'm at work so I can't verify, but, are you still using a single seed for all planets, or, does each planet get its own seed? The reason I'm asking is if it is one seed for the entire solar system, and I'm mining in two different locations (As someone above mentioned between Eve and somewhere else when using the debug generator) and I generate a new seed for a location I'm sitting on, then, all my other sites get screwed over with new locations. However, if each body gets its own seed, then I can regenerate without affecting anywhere else.

There is a per-save seed which is what gets randomized when you use the debugger. There are planet seeds, but they're only used for legacy compatibility right now. I should really make the debugger only operate on the current planet.

[Lurven]

There is a per-save seed which is what gets randomized when you use the debugger. There are planet seeds, but they're only used for legacy compatibility right now. I should really make the debugger only operate on the current planet.

True, if you allready have a base on for example: minmus, and want to use the debugger on duna, you can't without screwing up the kethane deposit under your base on minmus.

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong

[KhaosCorp]

THANK YOU so much for this generator!!! It is going to be the corner stone of my entire industrial logistics chain. No longer shall 1/2 the total mass of my wellheads be rtg's, batteries, and solar panels!!

Also an idea about something you said regarding maps...

Wouldn't it work to increase the map size and also increase the scanners ping intervals? Do it so end result is same basic timeframe to fill a map.

Not being a coder maybe its a shot in the dark, but figured id throw it out there.

P.S. You should tell Squad to change your screen name to Majiir Rockafeller =P

[magnemoe]

True, if you allready have a base on for example: minmus, and want to use the debugger on duna, you can't without screwing up the kethane deposit under your base on minmus.

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong

Yes, for Laythe this is important as its very few locations with good land and kethane. Either ocean or mountains. So you go to Laythe and find that you Minmus base is out of fuel.

[brobel]

Yes a larger map would be so loved by myself the small one is well just to small maybe a button that allows it to be bigger.

[Majiir]

@Majiir> STOP UPDATING SO FAST! I've not even been able to use the Kerbal Blender as I've still been wrestling with the new drill!!! SLOW DOWN!!! {smirk}

Fat chance!

[PringleMan]

Does that mean you finally got it working? Or is that just another teaser?

[KhaosCorp]

Either way it looks brilliant!

[HoY]

Fat chance!

Know what would be amazing? Having no mini map, or no map on the scanner UI, and having the MAP mode map show these little hexagons change color after that location has been scanned from orbit! So you'd have a grey overlay on the map and as the polys get scan data assigned to them they individually change color to clear for empty, or shaded to the different greens for the deposit density

Just thinking out loud

Looks amazing regardless of how you decide to implement it!

Edit: if you've legitimately gotten this far so far I'm sure there are some other modders that would love to hear from you. Specifically the ones looking at adding new planetary bodies to map view mode. From what I've taken away from some of those threads they are having trouble getting that to work, and your work might give them some clues to get it working

Edited June 18, 2013 by HoY

[Majiir]

Does that mean you finally got it working? Or is that just another teaser?

It indeed means that. I'd left the code alone for a few months. I came back to it and spent several hours pouring over the math to make the textures work, and I got nowhere. Then I checked a couple numbers and realized that I could easily render the whole thing using a pure mesh.

Here's another shot that demonstrates multiple colors in use.

There's definitely a lot of work to be done still; right now, this is totally disconnected from the actual deposit and scanning code. Still, it renders and it shows up in the map view, and those were my two primary obstacles. With those out of the way, it's just a matter of working it in.

[Majiir]

Know what would be amazing? Having no mini map, or no map on the scanner UI, and having the MAP mode map show these little hexagons change color after that location has been scanned from orbit! So you'd have a grey overlay on the map and as the polys get scan data assigned to them they individually change color to clear for empty, or shaded to the different greens for the deposit density

That is exactly what the concept has been from the beginning.

[HoY]

I'm too excited by these updates, something must be wrong with me lol

[elfindreams]

The section on Body nodes explains how to do this.

It would be! I don't have any idea when or how it would happen, but it's definitely something I'd like to see.

I... might have an idea how to do it... let me noodle through this and I might have something for you soon.

[Berserker66]

So, since we can "extract" Kethane safely from Kerbals, it seems like an idea I had a while ago could fit into Kethane.

The basic idea is a Greenhouse, that requires energy, fertilizer and lots of time, in this case it would either output plants that can be processed into Kethane, or Kethane directly.

Fertilizer is a finite resource, in that it can't be made from Kethane and must be launched from Kerbin. This effectively allows launching of Kethane to Kerbin close stations/ships to replenish Kethane. Fertilizer also makes sure that the greenhouse is not just an infinite Kethane cheat.

I guess you could call it a more humane and efficient way of supplying Kethane from Kerbin than using the KE-WAITNONOSTOP-01 Kerbal Unreconstitutionator.

[TMS]

Damn... that GUI overlay is pretty!

[skbernard]

Majiir, you sir arouse me - i think its time they hired you.

[Arrowstar]

It indeed means that. I'd left the code alone for a few months. I came back to it and spent several hours pouring over the math to make the textures work, and I got nowhere. Then I checked a couple numbers and realized that I could easily render the whole thing using a pure mesh.

Here's another shot that demonstrates multiple colors in use.

There's definitely a lot of work to be done still; right now, this is totally disconnected from the actual deposit and scanning code. Still, it renders and it shows up in the map view, and those were my two primary obstacles. With those out of the way, it's just a matter of working it in.

So does that mean the new view is on the roadmap for 0.7? Btw, I couldn't tell the new color on this map. What was it?

[Temeriki]

Majiir, that map interface looks....... "drool". I have a question, Ive always looked at the planet Eve with disgust, super dense pita atmosphere, and well I honestly cant think of any redeeming factor to it except it looks cool. I think you have the power to change our views of Eve, lets say that super dense atmosphere contains kethane and you made some sort of atmospheric kethane extractor, well now I finally have a reason to colonize Eve, and a means of generating sufficient fuel to achieve escape velocity. Of course the amount generated from atmosphere would be less than mining but still It would make Eve a viable target (if you add Hooligans Airship mod you could have self sufficient cloud cities). If this is possible I get visions of sending "dippers" into Jools atmosphere to harvest kethane (that and giant floating cities). Ive been poking around the code and was wondering if this is even possible?

[Majiir]

So does that mean the new view is on the roadmap for 0.7?

Yes. The map redesign is the core feature for 0.7.

Btw, I couldn't tell the new color on this map. What was it?

The two colors are green and black. The missing cells don't have geometry at all. This was just a technical proof of concept; I needed to test programmatically assigning colors to each cell.

[Playful1510]

Try it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the deposit seeds were lost. That said, deposits are only saved when a craft with a drill present is saved to the persistence file, so you may be in luck.

Yeah, I only had a probe out there (no drill), so hopefully it should be ok... But if it is, does that mean that I have to send a ship out that has a drill before I can update to .5.1+?

Also, sorry about the .5.1 mixup... I must have missed that link Sorry...

EDIT: I just performed the folder swap maneuver, and the deposits are back where they are supposed to be...

EDIT2: That is a really cool implementation for that overlay! :3

Edited June 18, 2013 by Playful1510

[GavinZac]

It indeed means that. I'd left the code alone for a few months. I came back to it and spent several hours pouring over the math to make the textures work, and I got nowhere. Then I checked a couple numbers and realized that I could easily render the whole thing using a pure mesh.

Here's another shot that demonstrates multiple colors in use.

There's definitely a lot of work to be done still; right now, this is totally disconnected from the actual deposit and scanning code. Still, it renders and it shows up in the map view, and those were my two primary obstacles. With those out of the way, it's just a matter of working it in.

Damn that's beautiful.

There's so many things could be represented by that, too, sciency stuff. Or just clouds!