Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[asmi]

He could probably allow for multiple inputs, but doing more than one output would probably ruin gameplay a little. Kethane is not supposed to be an end all be all resource, it was just convenient to keep it that way till the code was in place to allow for more resources. NOW between the EL mod and Kethane we have kethane to convert to fuel and ore that can be made into metal for rockets. The structure is in there to flesh out an entire resource system it just needs some modders to pick it up.

edit: Unless by more than one output you are planning on waste resource, which would be pretty cool in idea but in all practicality it is space you can just dump the waste overboard and be done with it.

There is a lot of useful reactions that produce more than one output - prime example is water electrolysis, which produce hydrogen and oxygen, so giving you fuel (H2) and oxidizer(O2), or oxygen can be useful for atmosphere revitalization for life-support system. Infact this very reaction has very good chances to become the first ever ISRU (in-situ resource utilization) to be used in real life.

[NeoMorph]

You speak truth! In fact frozen doo-doo was the plot device for this

.

That must have been one heck of a big piece of doo-doo lol.

[TMS]

Well, astronauts have a high protein diet.

[Conarr]

This has always been my problem with Kethane, not so much the crutch thing just that it's so magical, one resource to become anything.

As long as we're doing magic, lets do the opposite. Kethane goes in, Kerbal comes out!

Bah! Who needs more Kerbals? We need Kethane!!

[Arrowstar]

There is a lot of useful reactions that produce more than one output - prime example is water electrolysis, which produce hydrogen and oxygen, so giving you fuel (H2) and oxidizer(O2), or oxygen can be useful for atmosphere revitalization for life-support system. Infact this very reaction has very good chances to become the first ever ISRU (in-situ resource utilization) to be used in real life.

I agree, having a multi-in multi-out converter system would be the final piece of the resources puzzle. This would allow users to take any set of resources in and convert them to any other set of resources: the possibilities then become endless. Majiir, would this be something you'd consider implementing?

[PringleMan]

I agree, having a multi-in multi-out converter system would be the final piece of the resources puzzle. This would allow users to take any set of resources in and convert them to any other set of resources: the possibilities then become endless. Majiir, would this be something you'd consider implementing?

Actually that is exactly why I was saying having multi-in multi-out converters may not be the best idea. It may be clunky, but having unique converters for each reaction you want to do is safer gameplay wise. Something like electrolysis is one thing, but having a single converter that can take in anything and convert to anything is no good. That is what I was saying is the current problem with kethane. Kethane magically can turn into fuel OR oxidizer OR mono, and realistically it should probably only turn into fuel with trace amounts of oxidizer (though that is speculation since we do not know what the empirical formula for Kethane is exactly.

[asmi]

Actually that is exactly why I was saying having multi-in multi-out converters may not be the best idea. It may be clunky, but having unique converters for each reaction you want to do is safer gameplay wise. Something like electrolysis is one thing, but having a single converter that can take in anything and convert to anything is no good. That is what I was saying is the current problem with kethane. Kethane magically can turn into fuel OR oxidizer OR mono, and realistically it should probably only turn into fuel with trace amounts of oxidizer (though that is speculation since we do not know what the empirical formula for Kethane is exactly.

Nobody is talking about "anything-to-everything" converter, we're talking about stuff like N₂ + 2O₂ + electricity = N₂O₄ (multi-input, produces high-enegry oxidizer), or abovementioned 2H₂0 + electricity = 2H₂ + 0₂(multi-output), so conversion is specific for each instance, not current "Kethane-to-whatever" type of thing.

[Arrowstar]

Nobody is talking about "anything-to-everything" converter, we're talking about stuff like N₂ + 2O₂ + electricity = N₂O₄ (multi-input, produces high-enegry oxidizer), or abovementioned 2H₂0 + electricity = 2H₂ + 0₂(multi-output), so conversion is specific for each instance, not current "Kethane-to-whatever" type of thing.

Ah, I should clarify. I don't mean that you should be able to use arbitrary resources to get arbitrary resources. Reactions should be defined and have set inputs and outputs. If the same part is used for those reactions, well, not a big deal in my mind.

[Runescope]

Okay, so I've been playing around with different types of scanner layouts, seeing if changing how they're laid out on the craft would effect how they scan. Short answer, they don't. Just stick them on however you want.

Slightly longer answer:

This was the extreme test I did to see if having the detectors spread out over a large distance would help.

Yup, those are KAS systems holding on the scanners. Why?

This is why:

And then their final distance of 50m

They're a little hard to see, but each white spot is a scanner. They were even harder to see in the light.

[Temeriki]

Okay, so I've been playing around with different types of scanner layouts, seeing if changing how they're laid out on the craft would effect how they scan. Short answer, they don't. Just stick them on however you want.

Slightly longer answer:

This was the extreme test I did to see if having the detectors spread out over a large distance would help.

Yup, those are KAS systems holding on the scanners. Why?

And then their final distance of 50m

They're a little hard to see, but each white spot is a scanner. They were even harder to see in the light.

This is fantastic, im trying to set up and airship with a chain of kas's to give a very long tether.

[sanity]

At first I was like, why do we even need an electrical generator? Then I figured you can make self-powered kethane mining and refining rigs that operate in the night without using a ton of RTGs! And more compact rigs that don't need lots of gigantor panels and structural parts. Also kethane powered rovers. Mind = blown.

They're Great, i scaled one up to make a bigger version for an unmaned mining Well Head

Its Real Easy to find in the Dark Too

just need to figure a way to refuel unmanned probes?

cause this one needs a kerbal to connect the fuel hoses

[Hremsfeld]

Stick a few docking ports on there, practice your pinpoint landings, and call it a day?

[KhaosCorp]

I'm sure a lot of people already know this, but I didn't till I tried it, so I'm going to share. Kethane can be mined off-shore as long as its not crazy deep. I'm assuming this will work with other kethane based resources as well. So far deepest test was around 475meters.

[daxter]

Majiir,

Really appreciate your work! The consistent thoughtfulness and high quality is really awesome. Can't wait what you and others will make this into now that multiple resources are supported.

A suggestion for the deposit generation: maybe allow restricting possible deposit locations by altitude? As in, ore deposits in mountains, compressed kerbosaurs on the sea bottom.

[smunisto]

Is it confirmed that Kethane is now lighter than fuel? Meaning that converting Kethane to liquid fuel on the surface is now less efficient as opposed to hauling it to an orbital refinery?

Edited June 19, 2013 by smunisto

[Catullus]

YAlso, as a side note:

I wonder if someone could convert a hitchhiker into a kethane converter... a kerbal goes in, kethane comes out...

That part is already in the Kethane pack.

[HoY]

I'm sure a lot of people already know this, but I didn't till I tried it, so I'm going to share. Kethane can be mined off-shore as long as its not crazy deep. I'm assuming this will work with other kethane based resources as well. So far deepest test was around 475meters.

Khaos did you use KAS to drop the drills down to the sea bed or did they work literally on the surface of the water?? That's a design I was going to build for the Laythe colony, rather than building it on a kethane deposit I would build it where I wanted and send the ship out on the water to a nearby deposit

[Moon Goddess]

Actually that is exactly why I was saying having multi-in multi-out converters may not be the best idea. It may be clunky, but having unique converters for each reaction you want to do is safer gameplay wise. Something like electrolysis is one thing, but having a single converter that can take in anything and convert to anything is no good. That is what I was saying is the current problem with kethane. Kethane magically can turn into fuel OR oxidizer OR mono, and realistically it should probably only turn into fuel with trace amounts of oxidizer (though that is speculation since we do not know what the empirical formula for Kethane is exactly.

Ah, I should clarify. I don't mean that you should be able to use arbitrary resources to get arbitrary resources. Reactions should be defined and have set inputs and outputs. If the same part is used for those reactions, well, not a big deal in my mind.

Ok, see this is where I think you guys lost what I was asking for...

I was never asking for a Kethane part that changes Kethane to multiple things at a time, it already does do that one thing at a time.

I quoted the kethane wiki section about the API where it talked about adding the KethaneConverter part module to custom parts. I was specifically trying to design these set reactions and get rid of the Kethane resource all together. I wasn't making a request for a change to the Kethane mod, I was inquiring about the future of the Kethane API so I could use it to create an entirely different mod.

[KhaosCorp]

Khaos did you use KAS to drop the drills down to the sea bed or did they work literally on the surface of the water?? That's a design I was going to build for the Laythe colony, rather than building it on a kethane deposit I would build it where I wanted and send the ship out on the water to a nearby deposit

I used KAS to drop the drill to the seabed. In all my testing I never got kethane unless the drill was upright and deployed on the ocean floor. I've got the KAS cable set to 600meter length, deepest I have drilled so far was just under 500meters. Not sure how deep you can go despite KAS limitations, hooked a barometer to the drill for one of the early tests, saw almost two times the surface pressure at 78ish meters down. I plan on droping a seaprobe in a bit, see if theres a crush danger within 600meters.

Here is the crappy test rig...I made this in 5min for proof of concept, so try not to laugh to hard as it incompleteness.

this was one of the very first tests I did, the pic was taken with drill at about 45meters depth

Edited June 19, 2013 by KhaosCorp
pic

[mk78123]

Is it confirmed that Kethane is now lighter than fuel? Meaning that converting Kethane to liquid fuel on the surface is now less efficient as opposed to hauling it to an orbital refinery?

Yes, kethane now has a density of 2000 kg m^-3, as opposed to liquid fuel and oxidiser's density of 5000 kg m^-3.

[lyndonguitar]

Yes, kethane now has a density of 2000 kg m^-3, as opposed to liquid fuel and oxidiser's density of 5000 kg m^-3.

If I understand it correctly, having a big orbital refinery full of kethane tanks(and not fuel tanks) is actually useful now?

[Arrowstar]

Ok, see this is where I think you guys lost what I was asking for...

I was never asking for a Kethane part that changes Kethane to multiple things at a time, it already does do that one thing at a time.

I quoted the kethane wiki section about the API where it talked about adding the KethaneConverter part module to custom parts. I was specifically trying to design these set reactions and get rid of the Kethane resource all together. I wasn't making a request for a change to the Kethane mod, I was inquiring about the future of the Kethane API so I could use it to create an entirely different mod.

I think we're talking about the same thing. Your last paragraph is precisely what I'd like to see, as well.

Speaking of which, has anyone tried adding new resources into the game with Kethane?

[KhaosCorp]

I think we're talking about the same thing. Your last paragraph is precisely what I'd like to see, as well.

Speaking of which, has anyone tried adding new resources into the game with Kethane?

Yes, EL mod has added Ore via Kethane 0.6

[KhaosCorp]

If I understand it correctly, having a big orbital refinery full of kethane tanks(and not fuel tanks) is actually useful now?

Also yes...though silly people like me thought it was useful before, due to flexability

[erbmur]

With the update of version 6.0 and the implementation of the multiple resource support, does anybody know if it has support for or is able to be used with the modular fuel system fuels?

Or is it as easy as just adding:

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    SourceResource = Kethane
    TargetResource = NAME OF FUEL TYPE
    ConversionEfficiency = 0.25
    SourceConsumption = 2
    PowerConsumption = 8
    HeatProduction = 300
}

to the converter parts?