Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[nhnifong]

What do you think of this design? does it "Spit in the face of physics?"

It doesn't even look very aerodynamic I know

EDIT

another design

Edited October 16, 2012 by nhnifong

[nhnifong]

Getting better I think

I know this is too small, and the bevels are not the same size as the other parts, and it's not very aerodynamic, but It's definitely starting to look like a kethane scoop.

I'm aiming to make the openings of the scoop the same size and shape as all those vents on the other Kethane parts.

[The Destroyer]

It looks great!

[Tommygun]

Nice square scoop Nhnifong, maybe bigger scoops though?

Have you tried a wide mouth oval scoop?

I also came across an interesting scramjet intake too.

[ssTALONps]

Wow, nice one!

How about 2.5m large vertical scoop instead of radial one?

[Majiir]

What do you think of this design? does it "Spit in the face of physics?" It doesn't even look very aerodynamic I know

Well... kind of? Part of the problem is that scoops are... well, scoops. They scoop air. There's not much wiggle-room for the cool factor. The center spikes are about as good as it gets.

another design

I like this one a lot, actually. The shape is exactly what I had in mind for modifying the PROFAC concept. The cone could stand to be a little bigger (or the compression hardware a little smaller), and it should definitely have a center spike. That, in my mind, is the best candidate.

Getting better I think

I know this is too small, and the bevels are not the same size as the other parts, and it's not very aerodynamic, but It's definitely starting to look like a kethane scoop.

I'm aiming to make the openings of the scoop the same size and shape as all those vents on the other Kethane parts.

Don't get me wrong, I love the modeling work. I'm just suffering a little cognitive dissonance over here trying to call it a ram air scoop. You know what, though, it might be growing on me. Maybe. Radial scoops make sense (in the Kerbal way) if you've already got a center scoop mounted. Maybe size it so it'll neatly capture anything the center scoop doesn't? The important thing (for physics' sake) is to make sure the bulky compression hardware is entirely in the shadow of the scoop. The scoop interior should also be pretty aerodynamic. The exterior is less important; after all, there shouldn't be any air there since it's all getting scooped up.

Of course, nothing stops someone from mounting the radial scoops without a center scoop. I guess that crime against design is on their head.

[NovaSilisko]

What about a toroidal center scoop with attach nodes at the top and bottom? Sort of like this:

Or this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Leduc_022.JPG

Edited October 16, 2012 by NovaSilisko

[kulesz]

Just wanted to say thanks for continuing the addon - I hope it'll grow

[Majiir]

What about a toroidal center scoop with attach nodes at the top and bottom? Sort of like this:

How would that work with attach nodes on both ends? I guess the idea is to support decouplers?

Just wanted to say thanks for continuing the addon - I hope it'll grow

I heard you were AWOL! Toss me a PM if you have any in-development code I might be able to merge in.

[Supernovy]

I think Nova means something like a scoop plus centre spike, but instead of a spike, it's an attach node. So the scoop part would be around your centre stack in a circle.

I think.

[NovaSilisko]

I think Nova means something like a scoop plus centre spike, but instead of a spike, it's an attach node. So the scoop part would be around your centre stack in a circle.

I think.

Yep. As seen in the second picture I linked. The advantage of it would be you can stick it in the middle of a plane, in front of or behind the wings.

[Tommygun]

What made me think of a side scoop was the US Air Force's WaveRider.

It has a single square scoop at the bottom. I suppose you could mount several radially if you wanted.

[nhnifong]

I like them all...... I think nova's idea is pretty cool because you can just slap a nose cone on it if you want to and it's like the scoop on the MIG-21. However, I usually have both ends of my rocket tied up for the docking port and the kethane detector because they are dead ends. Since stack ends are in short supply, well, I don't want to introduce another stack end, I think that annular design sort of saves the day for the central scoop design. (to me)

And for the radial scoop, well I'm just going to say, I like the rectangular scoop opening because it doesn't look so much like a motor. But, still it could use some slimming down to make it look lighter, more aerodynamic, smaller pipes and bits on the back and fewer verts all around.

Why not have both right?

Edited October 16, 2012 by nhnifong

[nhnifong]

How about this radial design? Much simpler.

And this Annular design, pretty much straight from the picture.

Edited October 16, 2012 by nhnifong

[Tiauguinho]

I'm so happy that the development of this mod is continuing!

Personally, for the design of the scoop, I would love to see something a bit more edgy, futuristic. I like the proposed square scoop, but would love to see the design going more futuristic in terms of scoop like those ramjets or the XB-70 inlets.

[Tommygun]

That Annular design and side mounts would fit best with the modular design of the KSP building system I think.

Especially with the new docking mods being worked on, it does keep the nose free.

But there is nothing wrong with having three or more choices, just look at all the engines we have with the community mods.

[Crater]

I think I've found a discrepancy in the part configs for the kethane tanks.

I was trying to work out the density of liquified kethane gas, so I could do some calculations on how efficient scoops would be at actually mining the Joolian atmosphere.

For the 1m tank, the part file specifies the following

mass = 2.00

Capacity = 500

DryMass = 0.25

which gives a density of 2.00-0.25 = 1.75 tonnes per 500l of kethane, or 0.35 tonnes per 100 liters

and for the radial tank

mass = 0.21

Capacity = 200

DryMass = 0.1

which gives a density of 0.21-0.10 = 0.11 tonnes per 200l of kethane, or 0.055 tonnes per 100 liters

Is it that the part mass is ignored, and the effective mass is based on dry mass plus, or is it that we'd all be way better off, mass-wise, using the radial tanks, with their seven times less dense version of kethane?

Edit: if anyone is interested, kethane scooping on Jool might require us to.... be a little lenient with the laws of physics, and / or the atmospheric makeup of Jool.

If it has the same approximate kethane content as, say, Jupiter has of methane, at 0.3%, then a 1 square meter cross sectional scoop (about the size of the nose-mounted one) would have to run for close to 900 kilometers through atmosphere at the density of kerbal-surface (assuming equivalence to earth surfave). Sadly, at aerobraking altitudes, the atmosphere is hundreds of times less dense than that, meaning you'd need to aerobrake several times around the planet (and still be in orbit) to fill one standard 1m tank.

Either than, or my maths is way off

Edited October 16, 2012 by Crater

[Tommygun]

Edit: if anyone is interested, kethane scooping on Jool might require us to.... be a little lenient with the laws of physics, and / or the atmospheric makeup of Jool.

If it has the same approximate kethane content as, say, Jupiter has of methane, at 0.3%, then a 1 square meter cross sectional scoop (about the size of the nose-mounted one) would have to run for close to 900 kilometers through atmosphere at the density of kerbal-surface (assuming equivalence to earth surfave). Sadly, at aerobraking altitudes, the atmosphere is hundreds of times less dense than that, meaning you'd need to aerobrake several times around the planet (and still be in orbit) to fill one standard 1m tank.

Either than, or my maths is way off

I believe the PROFAC scoop takes 30 to 40 days to generate its own mass in liquid oxygen or could provide enough oxygen every 20-30 days to launch 15 tons of payload into lunar orbit.

It seems to be a slow process in real life.

So liberties need to be taken.

[Majiir]

Is it that the part mass is ignored, and the effective mass is based on dry mass plus, or is it that we'd all be way better off, mass-wise, using the radial tanks, with their seven times less dense version of kethane?

The part mass is ignored. The plugin uses the dry mass plus the fuel times a common density. I'm not sure what it is, but it's in the source code.

Edit: if anyone is interested, kethane scooping on Jool might require us to.... be a little lenient with the laws of physics, and / or the atmospheric makeup of Jool.

If it has the same approximate kethane content as, say, Jupiter has of methane, at 0.3%, then a 1 square meter cross sectional scoop (about the size of the nose-mounted one) would have to run for close to 900 kilometers through atmosphere at the density of kerbal-surface (assuming equivalence to earth surfave). Sadly, at aerobraking altitudes, the atmosphere is hundreds of times less dense than that, meaning you'd need to aerobrake several times around the planet (and still be in orbit) to fill one standard 1m tank.

Jool is green. Kethane is green. I think we can bump that number a bit. Don't worry about balancing; I'll get to all that in due time. If you're building parts, do try to have an accurate measurement of cross-sectional scoop area. I'll be using that in the part config.

[ChronicSilence]

I read in the old dev thread that one of the upcoming planned features was the ability to transfer liquid fuel as well as kethane. Is this still a possibility? It would allow for some cool "mining colonies" that could be self-contained and only "output" liquid fuel.

[keptin]

Hey folks, I've been working with Majiir to do some modeling for the project starting with a 2M part set. I'll be sharing some of the concept stuff as I go--have mercy, I'm a modeler by trade, but I think it's fun to show off what I'm working on.

To start, this is a 2-meter converter I'm finishing up:

[nhnifong]

Hey folks, I've been working with Majiir to do some modeling for the project starting with a 2M part set. I'll be sharing some of the concept stuff as I go--have mercy, I'm a modeler by trade, but I think it's fun to show off what I'm working on.

To start, this is a 2-meter converter I'm finishing up:

snip

Oooooohh Ahhhhhh! Nice design!

[nhnifong]

Does anyone have the original kethane part texture and specular and bump maps?

[squirrle4620]

Keptin and Majiir I am sure you will do an amazing job with the Kethane mod! I am very excited to see how you do!!!

[nhnifong]

Does anyone else think these are a little too big?

I made it two meters wide by accident But it made me think, what if the back end were two meters wide and the front end were one meter wide?

Edited October 17, 2012 by nhnifong