Aircraft tech progression is extremely limiting for earlygame, does not make sense

[Chel]

After playing around in the For Science update, I have really noticed that with aircraft tech, you are given most of the parts needed for a design, but lack a few key pieces for it to completely encompass an aircraft. Let me explain:

The initial node on the aircraft tree hands you: two cockpits, a jet fuel tank, two landing gear types, an intake, a wing and a stabiliser. Yes, it is possible to create an aircraft, but I can't escape the feeling that parts have just been omitted or placed in other areas that do not make sense.

Simply being given a nosecone intake instead of a radial one, for example, severely limits the craft you can design, meaning it must be placed at the front, or on the sides with more fuel tanks to connect it to. No tail piece, not even the Mk A like in KSP-1, means you are basically forced to stick with a rear-jet arrangement. Yes, you can make an aircraft, you just cannot make one effectively that comes with pieces I would of thought would be included as standard for an aircraft design.

Moving on to the Mk-2 modules.

We acquire these in tier 2 of the tech tree, which makes sense. Two cockpits, a jet, medium landing gear, airbrakes, a short and medium variant of Mk-2 fuel tanks, a wing and a nacelle.

Again however, noticably missing is things a bicoupler, or even a small-medium Mk-2 adapter, meaning you still can't really finish off the design like you could in KSP-1 with two engines at the back, or a singular, or connect it to Mk-1 parts.

Confusingly, these are all placed three nodes along. Last night I was trying to design a Mk-2 plane after unlocking the node, and could not for the life of me figure out how I was supposed to add a tail to it or finish it off without unlocking those other nodes first. It just feels extremely out of place. I know the point is to slowly progress to better, more specialised tech, but this really just feels like punishment or forced omission for the sake of it. The point should not be to have to unlock every other node first before designing something, it should be to be able to work with what you have in a fair way of progression and use that tech to progress to other tech.

I contrast this to the Rocket technology, which is very well thought out (for the most part)

You can easily progress along, visit other bodies with the parts you are given at the right stages, there is room for creating interesting designs. For aircraft, it just feels like things have been placed so far along that you would think to be standard for making even a basic design.

How I would improve this:

Mk2 Bicoupler/Adapter > Mk2 Jets

XM-G50 Radial Intake from HAA > Light Aviation

LY-05 from Aerial Drones > Light Aviation (why we have the landing sticks but not nose wheel makes no sense to me)

Tail Connector A > Light Aviation

Tail Connector B > Precision Aerodynamics

Don't even get me started on the Mk-3 parts and their placement.. that's another headache I will get around to >.>

Feedback, discussion is welcome as always.

- Rachel

[The Aziz]

1 hour ago, Chel said:

severely limits the craft you can design

Welcome to tech tree. Feature designed to do that.

[Chel]

15 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Welcome to tech tree. Feature designed to do that.

................sigh

The issue here is not that I don't have everything. I completely get that.

The issue is that several parts that are basically key to creating even basic designs are not present until further nodes, meaning you are essentially screwed until you unlock those to be able to make a design. See here:

Quote

Last night I was trying to design a Mk-2 plane after unlocking the node, and could not for the life of me figure out how I was supposed to add a tail to it or finish it off without unlocking those other nodes first. It just feels extremely out of place. I know the point is to slowly progress to better, more specialised tech, but this really just feels like punishment or forced omission for the sake of it. The point should not be to have to unlock every other node first before designing something, it should be to be able to work with what you have in a fair way of progression and use that tech to progress to other tech.

 

Edited January 1 by Chel

[Jeq]

I feel like airplanes in rocket games are more of a spice. They were spice in ksp 1 and so far it seems they are spice in ksp 2 unless developers wraps some gameplay around it.

One promising thing for airplanes at future of ksp 2 seems to be: Duna atmosphere is 100% thicker than it used to be.

When i made ksp 1 career planes, first planes were almost allways drone controlled built to girder body, just to get  science. We need rockets anyways to get to places and get more science.

When we lack parts which we think are crucial, thats when brains starts figuring out new stuff and i think KSP is just that.

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Welcome to tech tree. Feature designed to do that.

If only the game had some kind of mode where you are unconstrained in what you want to build. Anything! Like a kid in a sandbox!

[m4ti140]

On 1/1/2024 at 3:33 AM, The Aziz said:

Welcome to tech tree. Feature designed to do that.

On 1/1/2024 at 4:51 AM, Kerbart said:

If only the game had some kind of mode where you are unconstrained in what you want to build. Anything! Like a kid in a sandbox!

Are you being disingenuous on purpose, or did you misunderstand what OP wrote? If you're discrediting legitimate feedback on purpose, isn't the whole point of Early Access supposed to be precisely this?

I came to search for this because I agree with the OP, the aircraft tech progression order makes absolutely zero sense. You get overpowered parts at the beginning (A single Wheesley can easily propel any aircraft you can build at this tech level past the speed of sound without a problem in this game), while the lower power J-20 isn't unlocked until Tier 2 at 400 science. Together with fixed front landing gear - while fixed main gear is in first aviation tech node. Then it gets even more ridiculous when tail booms aren't unlocked until Tier 3 at 1400 science! Those are all low tech parts that, in some cases, are obsolete by the time they're unlocked due to being placed too far in the tree, while more powerful parts appear too early. It's the same issue as with docking ports and decouplers, with smaller decouplers unlocked too late in the tree.

In KSP1 the first aircraft players would build would typically use Mk1 cockpit, fixed landing gear and twin J-20 (i.e. weakest) engines, with empennage attached via tail boom to save part count and weight (in career mode, since buildings had to be upgraded to increase those). This made perfect sense, as it was the lowest tech, lowest performance aircraft that could be built even in sandbox mode, those were simply the weakest parts - so they were early in the tree. Here it feels someone moved these parts around at random so that it doesn't look too much like the KSP1 tree (why?) discarding any logic behind their original placement. Now the basic, low power builds require Tier 3 of tech tree and a trip to Duna, even though we can build supersonic fighter jets by this point in the tech tree.

Edited January 9 by m4ti140