Ideas about Lunar station wanted...

[zxzx]

Hi! Its been a long time since I open KSP1. Update process went smoothly with the help of CKAN.

I  used to spend hundreds  hours  on the game, and I really enjoyed it. But now that I have been study architecture in university for a year and a half, and it's really busy these years... but anyway, I don't enjoy to play games like I used to be...

I signed up for an Lunar station  architecture design contest(year 2050, near Shackleton crater), this recalls me many good memories I got from KSP, and I am now try to restart my game, for my design contest, and for fun.

Besides, I just sent Songbird to  Tycho, and before that I watched David sent Lucy to the moon. And I think I also want to fly myself to the moon.

Sorry that I sound Illogical, but let me jump to the subject:

I been thinking and collecting concepts about Lunar Station on the moon myself, my team member still havn't provide any useful thing(according one of my teammate:"I think I havn't provide any practical contributions so far"). I have some ideas so far but nothing innovative to myself. Maybe the innovation should be focused on how I put things together, maybe not. 

And now I am scrolling old KSP memories and I think to myself: Why don't I ask the forum?

So here I am, any ideas? I would like to hear any concepts that is possible to apply on a lunar surface base in 2050(I assume at that time human has already reestablish existence on the moon, as far as I know, there are ILRS and Artemis), if you like to tell.

 

 

 

Here are all the information aboout the site provide by the contest's website:

The Lunar south polar ridge on the left of Shackleton Crater Station Site: Along the Earth-facing slope of the Lunar south polar ridge, along the upper edge of an approximately 800m diameter crater there, facing downslope and toward Earth (which should be occasionally low on the south polar horizon). Station Center Coordinates:  89.45°S, 222.69°E

Area Specificities: The ridge along the crater's rim is exposed to almost continual sunlight, while the interior is perpetually in shadow that may indicate the presence of water ice. The landing and launch facilities could be located on the far-side of the south polar lunar ridge line to minimize the risks due to ‘ejecta’ produced during arrivals and/or departures from the settlement. The slopes near the ridge appear adequate for surface mobility to facilitate access by surface transportation to permanently shadowed regions (PSR) where ice has been detected during recent years. In addition, the Earth can be seen over Shackleton Crater.

The lunar habitation can not only provide life support but also encourage the idea of exploration. Providing a safe, efficient, and comfortable living space for astronauts has become a pressing objective to be accomplished. The lunar habitation theme encourages participants to design the projects at the lunar South Pole that utilize in-situ resources and innovative strategies, considering the material and spiritual needs under harsh lunar environments, including high vacuum, microgravity, and special rhythms, as well as isolated and confined conditions.

 

Notes: 1. Submit the renderings, technical drawings including plan, elevation, and section, as well as analytical drawings that can explain the concept of the scheme. 2. Provide a self-sufficient and intensive living space that can meet the needs of 3-6 people for at least a complete "Lunar Day".

3. Consider issues such as environmental response strategies, design combined with intelligent construction, and future sustainable development.

 

Here are some photo of my recent design(course homework), if you like to know:

And some photo from 2022:

[darthgently]

So the problem as you see it is that you feel you haven't contributed as a team member to the base design for the contest so you want someone to contribute something novel to you here so you can feel you yourself are contributing on your contest team design?  I'm beginning to wonder if I understand the words "contest" and "contribute".  Sorry if I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if you are trolling us or not

[zxzx]

5 hours ago, darthgently said:

So the problem as you see it is that you feel you haven't contributed as a team member to the base design for the contest so you want someone to contribute something novel to you here so you can feel you yourself are contributing on your contest team design?  I'm beginning to wonder if I understand the words "contest" and "contribute".  Sorry if I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if you are trolling us or not

You're right, I sound selfish. I am asking here only because I made a foolish comparison between my question and other forum posts regarding gaming and scientific content, and came to the conclusion that this is appropriate, ignoring the 'contest' aspect. But I did not just wandered on the forum and say "My team members do nothing, they have no use. I did nothing, but I'm okay with it". It might sound more selfish but the fact is so far all the things done now are mostly done by me: collecting data, writing files, preliminary design (I really mean it). This makes me kind of angry, for I am the team leader(not a good one, but others don't want to be team leader, and they are one who pulled me into this contest. So far they have helped me register though), I gave assignments but nothing's done(that's why I've done most of the work). We are not a good team, but I don't want to quit the contest now.

In fact it's my first time being a team leader for as far as I remember, I really don't have any experience with this. I am open to more advice.

[SunlitZelkova]

Carve the face of Konstantin Tsiolkovsky into the side of a nearby mountain, Mount Rushmore style.

I suggest taking design cues from the constructivist movement.

Melnikov House, ideal for laboratory modules.

Hotel Iset, perhaps a model of a mass colonist housing.

Modules would ideally be arranged in a five pointed star configuration with the power module in the middle, supplied by a light nuclear reactor.

Instead of having normal hallways, transport between modules would be done by horizontal conveyor belt/escalator, like those ones at the airport people use to move faster while walking.

An aerospacedrome for landers would need to be located at least a couple kilometers away and perhaps have paved surfaces.

Edited February 6 by SunlitZelkova

[Meecrob]

3 hours ago, zxzx said:

You're right, I sound selfish.

FTFY

[zxzx]

4 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Modules would ideally be arranged in a five pointed star configuration with the power module in the middle, supplied by a light nuclear reactor.

Instead of having normal hallways, transport between modules would be done by horizontal conveyor belt/escalator, like those ones at the airport people use to move faster while walking.

An aerospacedrome for landers would need to be located at least a couple kilometers away and perhaps have paved surfaces.

Thanks you! This remind me an ideas I thought of few days ago (the part MMS):

This idea first crossed my mind when I read an article which proposing the use of lasers to sinister lunar regolith. It might be like the prism tower (just cross my head now, or like a prism tank, even better) in Red Alert 2. The focused sunlight when serve as a laser can even sinister a launch pad and pavements with interlocking geometries^[1]. Like this:

But this concept falls a little bit far from architecture . I always picture the base must be as realistic as possible(The hint is that the website says:"3-6 people, for at least a Lunar Day"), but it's also kind of restricts my imagination. Maybe I am going the wrong way?

And also "Hardware Integration" is actually me puncturing an capsule fill with basic devices and people usually don't go in, as the primary core of the base. I thought it will be cool, like some sci-fic.

I don't plan to use unclear power as primary source when you can use solar power, By the year 2050 I assume small reactors on the moon is maybe just an verification mission. But a rector still sounds cool.  And why five points star?

By the way, the "avoid larger ESS" is actually comes from another article^[2].

1 hour ago, Meecrob said:

FTFY

My english is poor, especially grammar, and tons of spelling mistakes too. better read than write. FTFM.

[1] Laser melting manufacturing of large elements of lunar regolith simulant for paving on the Moon | Scientific Reports (nature.com)

[2]Optimal multi-site selection for a PV-based lunar settlement based on a novel method to estimate sun illumination profiles - ScienceDirect

 

Also, is that anyway to create wind(outside the building) that strong enough to clean up the dust around the building? I have a impractical thought that focus sunlight can generate mild airflow around the building to clean the dust.

Edited February 6 by zxzx

[farmerben]

 

My idea is 100m long plastic silage bags that fit inside small spacecraft.  Unroll and inflate them on the moon.    Then spray on an epoxy and hardener, this could be done from inside the tube, if vacuum epoxy doesn't exist.   Afterwards it can be burred in dust.  This idea minimizes launch mass and volume.  A long horizontal tube has advantages over a dome, especially for this project where you have a sunny site and a sunless site connected.  

 

 

 

 

We eventually want transport over a 20km route.  A narrow guage railway with aluminum rails might be the best solution.   Cars of about 10 ton (mass) loaded capacity on aluminum wheels.   I'm thinking of rails about 1 cm wide 10 cm tall, one is ground and one is 15,000 volts.  The high voltage rail would be supported on glass insulators. That solves power transmission at the same time.  The transition through airlocks presents a new engineering challenge, but it should be easy given the strength of rails.  

To connect the sections of tubes would require different types of couplings.  At the two terminal ends a 6 or 8 sided connector dome with more branching 100 m sections would be great.  

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6 by farmerben

[darthgently]

6 hours ago, zxzx said:

don't plan to use unclear power as primary source when you can use solar power, By the year 2050 I assume small reactors on the moon is maybe just an verification mission. But a rector still sounds cool.  And why five points star?

With a two week lunar night and nearly constant darkness in some areas near the poles nuclear power will definitely be preferred over solar unless all the materials for a very large mass of readily made batteries are accessible on the moon.   Solar is a no brainer for auxillary if they can be manufactured in situ though. If a constellation of mirrors in lunar orbit can keep them lit through the long lunar night solar makes much more sense

5 hours ago, farmerben said:

 

My idea is 100m long plastic silage bags that fit inside small spacecraft.  Unroll and inflate them on the moon.    Then spray on an epoxy and hardener, this could be done from inside the tube, if vacuum epoxy doesn't exist.   Afterwards it can be burred in dust.  This idea minimizes launch mass and volume.  A long horizontal tube has advantages over a dome, especially for this project where you have a sunny site and a sunless site connected.  

 

 

 

 

We eventually want transport over a 20km route.  A narrow guage railway with aluminum rails might be the best solution.   Cars of about 10 ton (mass) loaded capacity on aluminum wheels.   I'm thinking of rails about 1 cm wide 10 cm tall, one is ground and one is 15,000 volts.  The high voltage rail would be supported on glass insulators. That solves power transmission at the same time.  The transition through airlocks presents a new engineering challenge, but it should be easy given the strength of rails.  

To connect the sections of tubes would require different types of couplings.  At the two terminal ends a 6 or 8 sided connector dome with more branching 100 m sections would be great.  

 

 

 

 

Not sure about aluminum for rails even in lunar gravity given it's softness and fatigue curve.  But great for power transmission 

Titanium?

 

[farmerben]

Ideally you use lunar resources to create space mirrors and other infrastructure.  The sodium cooled kilo power reactor is a no-brainer to start with.

[farmerben]

You could scale down a standard railroad by at least 6 times and still have satisfactory performance.  A steel railway built to the standards we have on Earth could handle insane mass.  Still that is a possibility.  It could turn out to that we get plentiful black sand magnetite just by passing a magnet over the dust.

[farmerben]

The towers full of windows, at the top of the thread, are a bad idea.  The radiation from even normal sunlight is three times higher than on Earth overall radiation is much higher.  We will want viewing cupolas and observatories, but when not in use we will live underground with shielding.

[SunlitZelkova]

11 hours ago, zxzx said:

And why five points star?

Just an aesthetic suggestion. Stars are present on the flags of the big two space powers- China and the US. So the base could represent being from either.

The five points of the star would basically just be the biggest modules of the base. Smaller ones could be scattered about.

11 hours ago, zxzx said:

And also "Hardware Integration" is actually me puncturing a capsule fill with basic devices and people usually don't go in, as the primary core of the base. I thought it will be cool, like some sci-fic.

I was thinking a similar design for the core module. Not too big, mostly utilities and stuff.

[zxzx]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:31 PM, farmerben said:

 

My idea is 100m long plastic silage bags that fit inside small spacecraft.  Unroll and inflate them on the moon.    Then spray on an epoxy and hardener, this could be done from inside the tube, if vacuum epoxy doesn't exist.   Afterwards it can be burred in dust.  This idea minimizes launch mass and volume.  A long horizontal tube has advantages over a dome, especially for this project where you have a sunny site and a sunless site connected.  

 

 

 

 

我们最终希望在20公里的路线上运输。带有铝轨的窄轨距铁路可能是最佳解决方案。铝制车轮上装载能力约为 10 吨（质量）的汽车。我想到的是大约 1 厘米宽、10 厘米高的铁轨，一个是接地的，一个是 15,000 伏的。高压轨将支撑在玻璃绝缘子上。这同时解决了电力传输问题。通过气闸的过渡提出了新的工程挑战，但考虑到轨道的强度，这应该很容易。

连接管子的各个部分需要不同类型的联轴器。在两个端子端，一个 6 或 8 面的连接器圆顶，具有更多分支的 100 m 部分会很棒。

 

 

 

 

Good idea, but rail outside the pressurized tube will be a fine electric magnet to draw dust. Maybe we can put rail up in the air like cable car, but that might be no use(in 2050) as heavy transport like train on earth. My choice is heavy wheels(which is less path depend, or more flexible), or floating car(if fuel prove to be easy to reproduce).

19 hours ago, darthgently said:

a constellation of mirrors in lunar orbit can keep them lit through the long lunar night solar makes much more sense

The ridge near is constantly exposed to sun and permanent dark area is not far away. I prefer to let my imagination flow insde reality I imagined. But who knows? Mirror satellites will be more efficient an can also serve as comm satellite, etc. However, I believe a set of on-site tower can relocate the sunlight more flexible.

19 hours ago, farmerben said:

The sodium cooled kilo power reactor is a no-brainer to start with.

Second thoughts about reactor, I think it will work. But solar-powered is always more economic, before human can use helium-3 on the moon. Robots that need to operate in permanent dark area will need nuclear power, I imagine miniaturized but powerful reactors can be use on robots, but that's not a primary problem architecture concern.

Sorry, I am too lazy to check my spelling or grammar. 

Edited February 7 by zxzx
spelling mistake

[farmerben]

34 minutes ago, zxzx said:

Good idea, but rail outside the pressurized tube will be a fine electric magnet to draw dust. Maybe we can put rail up in the air like cable car, but that might be no use(in 2050) as heavy transport like train on earth. My choice is heavy wheel(which is less path depend, or more flexible), or floating car(if fuel prove to be easy to reproduce).

 

Magnetic dust is your basic iron ore resource.   You can collect magnetite easily and sinter it using microwaves into a solid 

I think you need wheeled vehicles for most new applications.  Rail only makes sense when you know you need the same route thousands of times, i propose it being more useful than conveyor belts.  A battery powered loco, and inert rail, would get the job done on a 20 km route.  But you still need separate power cables for your mining equipment.

The question is what do you use for rail sleepers... styrofoam... regolith coblestones?

Edited February 7 by farmerben

[zxzx]

By the way, any modeling sofwares recommended? I know the main building can use Blender, but what about terrain model? We are about to learn Rhino months later definitely, but it's a little bit harder than I thought. And it's too complex for Sketchup. And what if I want to make some animation and rendering(real-time). And what softwares you use for record your modeling process? Softwar I been using is not very convenient.