For all the KSP2 haters

[Kerbart]

2 hours ago, NexusHelium said:

I don’t think that was IG’s choice… Publishers like Private Division have a bad habit of rushing games before they’re completely finished.

Rushing? It took them three years, that's hardly rushing. Yes, it launched in an unfinished state, but if T2 had said "take all the time you need" we'd probably be another 3 years away from launch. Nobody is happy with the state the game is in right now, but I don't blame them for forcing a release; otherwise it would have been kept pushed over the horizon forever.

[KSRe-dev]

I think these kinds of haters are related to the "misinformation age" we are currently in. People are just applying it everywhere like a bad coat of paint that they bought too much of and need to get rid of. Shadowzone did a video addressing some of it a few days ago.

The marketing was wrong for what was first released, but that was years ago now. It has a 75% score on steam and is already good for an early access game. I'm very happy with it already, and lots of new features are coming next.

When in doubt just play some Taylor Swift and shake it off

[NexusHelium]

5 hours ago, KSRe-dev said:

When in doubt just play some Taylor Swift and shake it off

Or the KSP 2 soundtrack. Those songs are great. 

12 hours ago, Kerbart said:

It took them three years, that's hardly rushing. Yes, it launched in an unfinished state, but if T2 had said "take all the time you need" we'd probably be another 3 years away from launch

I complete agree.  It wasn’t really rushing (I definitely worded my thing a little weird), but they probably could have let IG push it back a couple more weeks to reach at least patch one status (I would imagine that would be better received than the launch it did have)

The KSP 2 timeline is actually pretty closely following the timeline of the first game. So… you know… just give this one 10 years of stable development. We’re already 1/10 of the way in 

[magnemoe]

7 hours ago, KSRe-dev said:

I think these kinds of haters are related to the "misinformation age" we are currently in. People are just applying it everywhere like a bad coat of paint that they bought too much of and need to get rid of. Shadowzone did a video addressing some of it a few days ago.

The marketing was wrong for what was first released, but that was years ago now. It has a 75% score on steam and is already good for an early access game. I'm very happy with it already, and lots of new features are coming next.

When in doubt just play some Taylor Swift and shake it off

I waited to after for science to buy it and patch 2.1 helped a lot, having tons of fun. 
Still lots of bugs like today, getting impact warnings at Gilly who is not just warning if say 20 m/s and warp=crash, braking to 6 m/s let you pas trough them. Water disappearing on landing, that is today.  Another landing on Kerbin and the ground was suddenly gone, on lower gravity worlds like the mun landers have an decent chance of falling trough the ground if you warp to get electricity. 
Nothing game breaking so far. 

1 hour ago, NexusHelium said:

Or the KSP 2 soundtrack. Those songs are great. 

I agree love it, I turned of music in KSP 1 after some time but it was nice to get it at the Mun or burst site. 
 

[Kerbart]

2 hours ago, NexusHelium said:

...but they probably could have let IG push it back a couple more weeks to reach at least patch one status (I would imagine that would be better received than the launch it did have)

The KSP 2 timeline is actually pretty closely following the timeline of the first game. So… you know… just give this one 10 years of stable development. We’re already 1/10 of the way in 

Maybe... looking back, the main problem—and releasing the game after the first patch would not have changed that—was  the wide gap between the expectations that were raised and the game that was delivered, combined with an attitude of "we delivered everything we promised and we're not aware of any bugs that need urgent fixing"

It took IG about six months to develop the humbleness to admit that there are significant issues to fix, while the community came to grips with the reality of the state the game is in, and that gap has now closed significantly.

I'm not sure the timelines match precisely. In KSP1 a lot of emphasis was put on getting the mechanics right before game play development took place.  KSP2 doesn't follow that route. Which can be frustrating because we're used to a lot of things that "should work" right now and are not. In fairness, because there was no vision, game play in KSP1 was never a thoroughly developed feature and only now are we starting to see how IG takes a more integrated approach on that.

You're absolutely right that it might take a couple of years before the physics part of the game is as good and stable as is in KSP1. But by then it should be a fantastic game.

[Spicat]

3 hours ago, Kerbart said:

[...], combined with an attitude of "we delivered everything we promised and we're not aware of any bugs that need urgent fixing"

huh? That's a little bit revisionist.

The first dev updates were talking about bugs being addressed: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/215095-patch-one-is-go/

They never changed their attitude towards the fact the game needed fix: https://twitter.com/KerbalSpaceP/status/1630976565214601216 (Less than one month after the release)

Literally after the weekend release:

Maybe you think communication were subpar and/or not enough fixes were made but saying "It took IG about six months to develop the humbleness to admit that there are significant issues to fix" is clearly false.

Edited February 19 by Spicat

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:44 PM, Bej Kerman said:

You neglected to mention that's not been true since Squad as a whole picked it up, then that got backed by a large company. This would be like saying "Starfield is an indie title" just because a small dev team at Bethesda was responsible for a prototype of the game years ago.

That latter part is a massive [citation needed].

Just look in their Q&As, they always reassure everyone that they are professionals and know what they are doing. 

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Spicat said:

huh? That's a little bit revisionist.

The first dev updates were talking about bugs being addressed: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/215095-patch-one-is-go/
They never changed their attitude towards the fact the game needed fix: https://twitter.com/KerbalSpaceP/status/1630976565214601216 (Less than one month after the release)

Attitude is also what's not written and can be read in between the lines. When looking at the videos released the message was, for a long time, "the game is great, we love playing it, and we're working hard to fix the bugs." It's kind of impossible to deny the existence of bugs, and selling the game you really don't want to say "right now it sucks" but Nate speaking at that German space convention was at a considerable different tone than the one at the launch of the game.

If you feel they were admitting the game wasn't great when it was released, good for you. Personally I don't feel that way, and I'm happy they do now. It's easier to take them serious when they're not displaying a state of denial regarding the quality of the game.

[KSRe-dev]

Based on the bugfixes in every update changelog, it seems they were always aware of the bugs, and have been fixing them. They also stated openly that they were working hard on the bugs. Reading between the lines, they seemed to be making a point with the first update, with a changelog containing an unusually large amount of bugfixes. I can't see any denial, ambiguity or vague language there. It's all simple and clear.

What has been harder to avoid is the amount of abuse and twisted narratives levelled at them, most of it based on hyperbole. That is the subject of this thread here, and something the OP seemed to want to mitigate with some positivity and acknowledgement that things are better now. I agree with this.

This community has changed a lot since I first discovered KSP in 2015. The attitudes have shifted in a measurable way. New mods used to get some appreciation and encouragement, now there is blanket silence and general grumbling. The work of modders in KSP2 already amazes me as someone who is learning programming. Players can't see how complex the backend is now, and how much more difficult it is to mod this game than KSP - and yet they are more demanding and entitled than ever. It's a shame, because I know this was one of the best modding communities around. It could definitely return to that, but the attitudes of people here would need to shift, as that's the only problem.

 

[RaBDawG]

On 2/9/2024 at 2:19 AM, blanoun said:

I'm really annoyed at all the people saying 'ksp2 is trash', 'oh this update might've saved it', 'the games broken'.  What do you think KSP1 was like right after it was released.  It doesn't matter what type of game it is, the developers need time to develop the game, and a game of KSP2's scope is not something you can do overnight, so stop criticizing everything.

Can I get an "Amen" please.

Right after?!  My brother in Christ, this game is over a year old LOL.

[KSRe-dev]

I think the devs provided this dance bug deliberately, just so we could all dab on the haters