The ultimate Jool 5 challenge (part 4)

[DennisB]

On 9/29/2024 at 1:04 PM, king of nowhere said:

ah, nice one. I thought if there was no connection, those experiments would stop. had no idea you could pick them up and collect their science. just like i beat the previous record by finding a trick to collect surface science from water, you beat me by finding a way to recover deployed experiments. congratulations on pushing the boundaries of what was assumed to be possible.

I've just found this post from 2020. I was definitely not the first one, who did this. Like in my case, that discovery happened by "accident" too, like some real life discoveries.

On 3/3/2020 at 7:39 AM, a2soup said:

To anyone who may find this in the future: The fix described above worked great, but it was actually unnecessary to set the experiment back up since it turns out that when a Kerbal picks up an experiment with 100% complete but untransmitted science, they hold that science just like any other science result and can take it back to Kerbin with them. They may even be able to transmit it after putting it in a commnet-connected craft, but I didn't test that unfortunately.

I hope this helps someone out there, since I was unable to find any documentation of these mechanics anywhere online.

 

[32r]

Level 3 mission completed.

I used an giant ISRU SSTO with only a specialized lander for Tylo.

All 5 kerbals on the craft landed on Laythe, Vall, Pol and Bop. Jebediah did the planting of flags of those but it could be any of the other 3 base kerbals as they were in the same cockpit. Tylo only a hired kerbal Marvin landed and planted.

Full youtube playlist of nearly the whole mission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRwgjryDrro&list=PLnWZIgmJNhlXihkkThDAbd9G2oV57U-Uc

- Which game versions did you use? I used the latest one which i believe is 1.12.5.
- What mods did you use, if any? I had quite a few loaded. I used only stock parts. The only ones that impacted my game in any way are: BetterTimeWarpContinued, Kerbal Engineer Redux, Click Through Blocker, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Toolbar Controller, Waypoint manager. All of which only provide visual benefits apart from BetterTimeWarp.
Note: I also opened the alt+f12 menu a few times but as you can see in the recordings I only used it to check in the console if any parts broke while landing. Never used any function that would alter the gameplay in any way.

Edited October 15, 2024 by 32r

[king of nowhere]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:31 PM, 32r said:

Level 3 mission completed.

I used an giant ISRU SSTO with only a specialized lander for Tylo.

All 5 kerbals on the craft landed on Laythe, Vall, Pol and Bop. Jebediah did the planting of flags of those but it could be any of the other 3 base kerbals as they were in the same cockpit. Tylo only a hired kerbal Marvin landed and planted.

Full youtube playlist of nearly the whole mission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRwgjryDrro&list=PLnWZIgmJNhlXihkkThDAbd9G2oV57U-Uc

- Which game versions did you use? I used the latest one which i believe is 1.12.5.
- What mods did you use, if any? I had quite a few loaded. I used only stock parts. The only ones that impacted my game in any way are: BetterTimeWarpContinued, Kerbal Engineer Redux, Click Through Blocker, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Toolbar Controller, Waypoint manager. All of which only provide visual benefits apart from BetterTimeWarp.
Note: I also opened the alt+f12 menu a few times but as you can see in the recordings I only used it to check in the console if any parts broke while landing. Never used any function that would alter the gameplay in any way.

reviewing your submission now. unfortunately, there was the giant server crash that prevented any work for a long time before.

was your full mass roughly 300 tons?

[32r]

On 10/31/2024 at 5:33 PM, king of nowhere said:

reviewing your submission now. unfortunately, there was the giant server crash that prevented any work for a long time before.

was your full mass roughly 300 tons?

385205 KG

[Geryz]

(repost from old thread)

Hey @king of nowhere, I know I'm a little late to the party but I'd like to post my submission for the challenge at Level 3!
For my mission, the Hephaestus V, little regard was given to achieve minimum funds or mass requirements. Instead, I intentionally made it as flashy and ludicrous as possible. Not to mention, I added the additional challenge of Kerbalism (SIMPLEX) Life support (although with radiation turned off).  In the end, I ended up with a mothership that used a ridiculous 45 Nerv Engines, had to be assembled in 8 launches, most of which were done with a completely ginormous 220t to LKO launch vehicle called the Achilles 2b. The entire mission and its mod list is documented in a video: https://youtu.be/OWz_SJNtiuY. Thanks in advance for reviewing my submission!

Edited November 15, 2024 by Geryz

[king of nowhere]

11 minutes ago, Geryz said:

(repost from old thread)

Hey @king of nowhere, I know I'm a little late to the party but I'd like to post my submission for the challenge at Level 3!
For my mission, the Hephaestus V, little regard was given to achieve minimum funds or mass requirements. Instead, I intentionally made it as flashy and ludicrous as possible. Not to mention, I added the additional challenge of Kerbalism (SIMPLEX) Life support (although with radiation turned off).  In the end, I ended up with a mothership that used a ridiculous 45 Nerv Engines, had to be assembled in 8 launches, most of which were done with a completely ginormous 220t to LKO launch vehicle called the Achilles 2b. The entire mission and its mod list is documented in a video: https://youtu.be/OWz_SJNtiuY. Thanks in advance for reviewing my submission!

you were already reviewed and added to the scoreboard.

 

sorry if i am not impressed by the size, i am used to flying significantly bigger stuff.

[Geryz]

10 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

you were already reviewed and added to the scoreboard.

 

sorry if i am not impressed by the size, i am used to flying significantly bigger stuff.

Oh, my mistake, I assumed it was overlooked because I didn't receive any reply notifcation. Sorry for bothering you!

Edited November 15, 2024 by Geryz

[FTLparachute]

Just want to check - are you allowed to do asteroid sampling in the Jool system (i.e: hauling along one to jool and then doing the sampling in soi)

[king of nowhere]

23 minutes ago, FTLparachute said:

Just want to check - are you allowed to do asteroid sampling in the Jool system (i.e: hauling along one to jool and then doing the sampling in soi)

I suppose you are asking for the science record, because in the basic challenge, as long as you land on all five moons, you can do anything else you want.

 

So, if you drag an asteroid in Jool SoI, and you get samples from it, will it count towards the Jeb category?

I have to say, that's a brilliant idea. However, after some consideration, I decided that it should not count. The challenge says you return science "from the Jool system", and the asteroid comes from outside the Jool system. Also, I don't want to encourage some crazy recursion where people may feel that they need to bring an asteroid, and a comet, and a magic boulder asteroid, and whatever else to Jool in order to do the challenge properly.

[FTLparachute]

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I have to say, that's a brilliant idea. However, after some consideration, I decided that it should not count. The challenge says you return science "from the Jool system", and the asteroid comes from outside the Jool system. Also, I don't want to encourage some crazy recursion where people may feel that they need to bring an asteroid, and a comet, and a magic boulder asteroid, and whatever else to Jool in order to do the challenge properly.

Fair enough. I'll probably do a mission with that anyway, though I'll dock those points for the final total (i.e: put the samples in a storage unit).

I don't think that the comet would count anyway though - unlike the asteroid sample I think that comet samples are not biome/state dependent.

EDIT - no im dumb, comets work the same way.

Edited January 2 by FTLparachute

[FTLparachute]

Sorry to pester again - If I use Restock (base, not +), does that qualify for Stock or Modded?

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, FTLparachute said:

Sorry to pester again - If I use Restock (base, not +), does that qualify for Stock or Modded?

i heard many people mention that mod, but i don't know what it does. can you describe?

[FTLparachute]

Just now, king of nowhere said:

i heard many people mention that mod, but i don't know what it does. can you describe?

Retextures the game parts, its on ckan if you want to look at it.

I think it does change the aeros, I'll try find an analysis.

thread here

[king of nowhere]

5 minutes ago, FTLparachute said:

Retextures the game parts, its on ckan if you want to look at it.

I think it does change the aeros, I'll try find an analysis.

thread here

so, it's purely graphic?

yes, mods that only change the textures are perfectly fine, the game mechanics are not altered in any way

[FTLparachute]

seems that way, yes. Restock+ (adds new parts) is different, so that would presumably be for modded

[king of nowhere]

15 minutes ago, FTLparachute said:

seems that way, yes. Restock+ (adds new parts) is different, so that would presumably be for modded

yes

[Lyra]

5 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

so, it's purely graphic?

yes, mods that only change the textures are perfectly fine, the game mechanics are not altered in any way

Restock does change the aerodynamics of some parts (some changes make parts better, some make other parts worse, some aren't affected at all IIRC) but doesn't alter the aero engine in any major way. as long as a mission isn't going for the low mass/cost categories I think it should be counted as unmodded. I don't use Restock so I'm unfamiliar with the extent of its changes so take my opinion with a grain of minty Minmus salt.

[Mr. Kerbin]

6 minutes ago, Lyra said:

Restock does change the aerodynamics of some parts (some changes make parts better, some make other parts worse, some aren't affected at all IIRC) but doesn't alter the aero engine in any major way. as long as a mission isn't going for the low mass/cost categories I think it should be counted as unmodded. I don't use Restock so I'm unfamiliar with the extent of its changes so take my opinion with a grain of minty Minmus salt.

99% sure they already fixed that last update AFAIK.

EDIT

Quote

Q: Did you change aerodynamics/colliders/drag cubes?
A: We minimized the impact as much as possible. Let us know if you have a concern.

 

Edited January 5 by Mr. Kerbin

[FTLparachute]

i'm not too sure, but i think i might not qualify for the low mass category...

[FTLparachute]

ono

it got worse

[FTLparachute]

Spoiler

Just want to check if the service bay setup i have is allowed - the ore tanks are not clipped into each other, but do clip into the service bay when it is closed, to make use of the occlusion in the bay (putting ore tanks inside service bays occludes their drag/bouyancy, so in this case I can toggle when the craft floats/sinks.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, FTLparachute said:

  Hide contents

Just want to check if the service bay setup i have is allowed - the ore tanks are not clipped into each other, but do clip into the service bay when it is closed, to make use of the occlusion in the bay (putting ore tanks inside service bays occludes their drag/bouyancy, so in this case I can toggle when the craft floats/sinks.

i am not familiar with that modded part.  is there anything else inside the cargo bay that is clipping into the ore tank? (asking because i've seen some mixed cargo bay/fuel tank modded parts that have a cargo bay with a fixed fuel tank in the center)

do the ore tanks show outside when the cargo bay is closed?

if the answers are no to both, then i'd say it's some very minor clipping, and it's ok

 

i'm wondering why you are taking great pains to hide those four ore tanks, when there are a half dozen others outside.

[FTLparachute]

38 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

i am not familiar with that modded part.  is there anything else inside the cargo bay that is clipping into the ore tank? (asking because i've seen some mixed cargo bay/fuel tank modded parts that have a cargo bay with a fixed fuel tank in the center)

do the ore tanks show outside when the cargo bay is closed?

if the answers are no to both, then i'd say it's some very minor clipping, and it's ok

 

i'm wondering why you are taking great pains to hide those four ore tanks, when there are a half dozen others outside.

sorry, should have clarified

the parts are 2 radial ore tanks inside the 1.25m service bay. I'm using restock, so they're textured differently. other than those, theres nothing there

for question 2, somewhat, here's a look

Spoiler

[getting image now, one i had was borked]

the reason they are in there is because when the bay is closed the game considers the tanks as occluded by the bay and thus doesn't count their drag. this also affects their buoyancy, and so can be used to toggle if the craft floats or sinks. the external tanks are just there to make sure it can sink. if you've seen that matt lowne video where he builds a submersible base on laythe, its the same trick.

tbh i could just add an extra bay and put them in sideways, then i could have more tanks and it would look flush

 

EDIT - OK, to dispel any doubts about clipping I have redone the bay as i said above, so there is no clipping now.

here's the new design

Spoiler

Edited Thursday at 09:42 PM by FTLparachute
fixed it

[JD_]

I can't use kerbal atomics it's so joever.
Can I use cryoengines/tanks tho?

[king of nowhere]

3 hours ago, JD_ said:

I can't use kerbal atomics it's so joever.
Can I use cryoengines/tanks tho?

i am not familiar with them. how powerful are they compared to stock? can you show me some numbers? a tank wet mass and dry mass, an engine mass, thrust and isp?