Firespitter propeller plane and helicopter parts v7.1 (May 5th) for KSP 1.0

[Hooligan Labs]

I will have to dig up some old code I gave to InfiniteDice. That actually used the Kraken to move stuff. It's based on how HyperEdit works.

Your method, when it does work, does seem more consistently safe though.

And thanks for the code! It is for running code on the same vessel, but parts that are not active. Maybe if I just convert from OnFixedUpdate to FixedUpdate that could fix it.

[Benzschwagel]

hmm, lots of interesting stuff going on...

Snjo, do you have anything that runs on Kethane? I'm trying to build a floating kethane mining barge using THSS and LLL parts with Hooligan's airships and I figured that it might be kind of neat to use some props as RCS. But being a kethane mining vessel, it would be nice to run them on Kethane, than to have to bring fuel with me for it. I suppose that I could use the kethane conversion system, or run some of the fscoolant props, but it would be nice to have the option.

Also, about that running a plugin on an inactive part, you think that would be something that would work for the ISA MapSat addon to be able to map simultaneously from multiple mapsat's at the same time? If so, that would be awesome, I'm sure a lot of ppl would love to get their hands on something like that, but I imagine that it would probably suck a lot of system resources, so it would have to be a toggle, or possibly run through something more centralized, like the command complex on kerbin (where you switch between vessels), maybe even a data patch-through using remote tech? Sorry, I guess I'm kind of rambling off topic again, I tend to do that from time to time, but feel free to use my ideas if they help out.

[Snjo]

Converting an engine to Kethane is as simple as changing the resource it uses in the part.cfg. And of course, you should paint it green. If the Kethane pack still has that jet engine, you can look at that for an example of resources used.

Throwing code over to a KSPAddon means it's not running on a part, and therefore it wouldn't move around. You could tell it where in the world it was taken from, but you would also need to fake its idea of movement and orbit, and a whole lot of other stuff. Point being, it's doable to have simulated satellites, but it's complicated as hell.

[Benzschwagel]

oh boy, looks like I finally have to get my hands dirty and learn something new, hehe.

Oh, you mean since you aren't focused on it, it's simulated in the background, and you'd have to call up the info somehow, and if that's not possible, then you would have to make up the data, which, yes, would be incredibly difficult, you might as well just cheat and make the map filled in auto-magically, which would defeat the purpose of trying to put a MapSat in place. If that's what you mean?

[Benzschwagel]

so, what has everyone been using for tools to do their thing with mods?

[Snjo]

Yeah, if it's not loaded it doesn't exist, it's all made up. Basically, you can easily fake a station on the Mun doing some work, sending signals back and forth with you current location, but as soon as you start faking physics on that imagined piece of hardware, you're in trouble.

My guide has some very basic info on editing part.cfg files

edit: Blender for modelling, Unity for making parts out of the models, some image program for textures, and Visual Studio for writing plugins in C#.

Oh and notepad ++ is good for writing cfg files, or just regular notepad

Edited August 15, 2013 by Snjo

[Snjo]

v5.5

Download

new since last pre-release:

-Updated gyroscope and nose SAS to use the new SAS module. Converted cockpits to the new reaction wheel system. (very weak reaction wheels) (thanks to PolecatEZ for some input)

new since last official release:

-F-86 fighter jet wing with deployable leading edge for increased lift+drag

-F-86 tail control surfaces (elevators and rudder)

-Folding electric plane propeller

-Greatly reduced the weight of the landing gear. (Check the balance of your craft)

-Added brake lights to some gears

-Trim tool displays current trim

-Water Launch Module: On slower machines, try setting a longer timer setting if you are put back to the runway at lunch. Edit the line timer = 4.0 to a higher value (seconds). (Parts\Utility\FS_moveCraftGadget\part.cfg)

[Hooligan Labs]

so, what has everyone been using for tools to do their thing with mods?

Well, PartTools is necessary for exporting a part from Unity into KSP. I first make models in Blender and textures in GIMP. I sometimes use Vanguard's animation plugin. Other than that, I'm hand coding scripts after getting ideas by reading through other modders' source code.

[PolecatEZ]

Before I asked here on the forums about the texture switcher, I thought I'd do it myself.

If you just dig out the model target names out of the .mu file, it works for most things. I am, however, having trouble with wings. Eventually I figured out that if I just target parts, like "aileron" or "wing" then I get a partial switch off the swatch. Question is, how do I target the whole damned thing...especially the F-86 wings. Do you have a master list for your parts so I can add in the FSTextureSwitch code for everything, or is there an easier way to peak in .mu files to get what I need?

The texture switcher, or something like it, is actually a pretty big deal...one step closer to the beauty that is the Spore creator...now all we need is dynamic sizing for parts.

So, for starters, I've already switched out the default wing skin to what I want...but I still want to dynamically change it. You can also see the fuselage skin is a quick mockup to test the texture switcher. I basically have it already to varying degrees on all the cockpits and fuselage sections. Wings have proven to be a pain in the ass.

But using "wing" as my target, this is what I get.

If you give me the list, I'm more than willing to add it to all your parts. If you tell me how to rip it from the Squad stock parts, I'll do them also. I really want to see my fugly fighters turn into something beautiful.

Cheers.

[Snjo]

Before I asked here on the forums about the texture switcher, I thought I'd do it myself.

If you just dig out the model target names out of the .mu file, it works for most things. I am, however, having trouble with wings. Eventually I figured out that if I just target parts, like "aileron" or "wing" then I get a partial switch off the swatch. Question is, how do I target the whole damned thing...especially the F-86 wings. Do you have a master list for your parts so I can add in the FSTextureSwitch code for everything, or is there an easier way to peak in .mu files to get what I need?

The texture switcher, or something like it, is actually a pretty big deal...one step closer to the beauty that is the Spore creator...now all we need is dynamic sizing for parts.

So, for starters, I've already switched out the default wing skin to what I want...but I still want to dynamically change it. You can also see the fuselage skin is a quick mockup to test the texture switcher. I basically have it already to varying degrees on all the cockpits and fuselage sections. Wings have proven to be a pain in the ass.

But using "wing" as my target, this is what I get.

If you give me the list, I'm more than willing to add it to all your parts. If you tell me how to rip it from the Squad stock parts, I'll do them also. I really want to see my fugly fighters turn into something beautiful.

Cheers.

Nice work! Before I forget, if you need the UV layout guides for a part, let me know. I stopped including them at some point early on, and now that they take up texture memory if included it doesn't make sense to include them anyways, except if it was in a zip.

The problem with the names is of course that any object can be named anything, often Cube01, Cube02, or something ungueaable like upperSlatBackupOhGodImHungry. So I will make a way to list all the objects in a part if the texture switcher is in debug mode. When you switch the texture on an object, you actually switch the main texture on its material. Other objects might use the same material, in which case all of them should update, but judging from your picture that might not be true. That makes it a bit awkward if you then have to switch multiple objects each time...

I guess you could target a range of objects for each tex switch module. Yeah, that makes sense. And then you could optionally define two or more modules on a part to switch different sections separately.

[Snjo]

That wasn't as much work as I thought.

I updated the pre-release with the new version of the texture switching module.

You can click the List Objects button to fill the debug log (Alt+F2) with the names of all the objects (transforms) in the part. Not all those objects have a mesh and a material, some are just empty holders.

Define the module like this to allow for different sections switching independently.:

MODULE
 {
	name = FStextureSwitch
        displayName = Nose Art Texture
        showListButton = true
	moduleID = 0
	textures
	{
		name = Firespitter/Parts/Command/FS_bomberCockpit/noseArt/ozymandius_model003
		name = Firespitter/Parts/Command/FS_bomberCockpit/noseArt/early_bird_model003
		name = Firespitter/Parts/Command/FS_bomberCockpit/noseArt/swift_demise_model003		
	}
	objects
	{
		name = noseartplate
		name = frontwindowglass
	}
 }

 MODULE
 {
	name = FStextureSwitch
        displayName = Fuselage Texture
        showListButton = true
	moduleID = 1
	textures
	{
		name = Firespitter/Parts/Command/FS_bomberCockpit/noseArt/ozymandius_model003
		name = Firespitter/Parts/Command/FS_bomberCockpit/noseArt/early_bird_model003
		name = Firespitter/Parts/Command/FS_bomberCockpit/noseArt/swift_demise_model003		
	}
	objects
	{
		name = fuselage
	}
 }

edit: added the displayName field to change the heading of the Popup box for each instance of the module

Wow, that's ugly

Of course the list of textures for the fuselage should have included a better choice of textures.

Now, one thing to note is that each image present in the GameData folder is loaded as a texture by the game, which means that making a bunch of alternate textures for every part will increase the RAM usage. If people are running many mods, that could be what tips the scale and puts them over the memory limit, crashing the game. Therefore I can't do alternates all around, but please feel free to release texture packs for my parts, or for any other set of parts you want.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Snjo

[CheesySquid279]

Wow! I didn't know that August 45th even existed! lol, you miiiiiight wanna change that.

[Snjo]

Wow! I didn't know that August 45th even existed! lol, you miiiiiight wanna change that.

It's metric

[PolecatEZ]

Thanks for the quick way to pull stuff. It is a royal PitA though to figure out which things do what. I did get the tail rudder working great. I was also messing with a way to get theme aircraft without massive texture overload, so I was messing with adding flags to things like wings. The catch is that flags are rectangles, textures are square, so something gets skewed. The only solution would be for Squad and all future modmakers to start using a standard convention when modeling and assigning textures, and include "logo" areas as well as general "materials" to swap out in different channels. It would save sooooo much memory to just have a catalog of materials rather than individual 1-2mb textures for every freaking object in the game.

Anyways, here is a shot that encapsulates a few different things going on:

At least for now I can clean up some of the uglier stuff, as soon as I figure out how to rip apart the texture files...you can tell I'm new at this. I was a producer for several AAA game titles but never touched code or graphics before, just game design.

[Snjo]

I should think that some experience in coding and "arting" would be a great help in understanding the work your coders and artists do on a game. Just like a manager with no experience with cars would be badly suited to run a car factory (at least according to the workers). Unless you end up in the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category

To the defined decal idea for parts, the problem is that, yes, it could save on some texture memory space, but it would also add draw calls to have that transparent material in addition to the diffuse mat on each part. For standard 1m parts, you could create a transparent rounded decal plate (or flat for other parts) which would be an inch outside the main mesh. That could have a switcher and support any decal. As a separate part I mean, to slap on any other part. It would increase part count of course, but with just one or two on your plane/rocket, it would be cool.

[MrIronMoose]

Just wanted to say thanks again for making and continually updating this mod pack. It (and B9) make KSP planes so much more fun!

I figured I'd also share a few of my recent Firespitter creations.

1) the updated K-29 SuperKerbalFortress (no double wing)

2) A more sexified utility K-17.

I don't want to clutter your thread with too many screenshots, just wanted to say thanks

Edited August 19, 2013 by MrIronMoose

[Snjo]

Those are some sweet designs, and one Bad Ass Kerbal! Tom Cruise ain't got nothing on him, with his Implausible Missions.

[PolecatEZ]

I should think that some experience in coding and "arting" would be a great help in understanding the work your coders and artists do on a game. Just like a manager with no experience with cars would be badly suited to run a car factory (at least according to the workers). Unless you end up in the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category

To the defined decal idea for parts, the problem is that, yes, it could save on some texture memory space, but it would also add draw calls to have that transparent material in addition to the diffuse mat on each part. For standard 1m parts, you could create a transparent rounded decal plate (or flat for other parts) which would be an inch outside the main mesh. That could have a switcher and support any decal. As a separate part I mean, to slap on any other part. It would increase part count of course, but with just one or two on your plane/rocket, it would be cool.

I was a game designer for several years before management. I understood coding enough to know what was basically possible and what was not. I also understood texturing and art assets enough to know that artists needed to be periodically beaten or they would bloat their texture files to untenable sizes. That's the games industry for you though, 150-200 people working on a project, and about 1/4 of the managers ever actually knowing what is going on. You'd be shocked at the shear amount of waste that goes into your typical AAA game...the fans think its some great magic being made, when the miracle really lies in the fact that anything gets made at all given the chaos and politics. I purposely avoided learning programming until this point for 2 basic reasons - #1 I was already annoying enough imposing on the design team, I'm sure the programmers were happier being left alone. #2 Design done right, and management done right, are already massive skill sets, to pick up programming when I had perfectly good programmers to do my bidding would have been a waste.

Anyways, settled on making a "core mod" project to make a teaser sampler of all the different good mods that are out. I'll post the full manifesto in the working section. Basic idea would be to gather together the best mods, strip them of all redundant parts, interconnect them where feasible using each other's modules, and then balance all parts to Squad's precedents. Sort of like the KSPX manifesto with much looser rules. Mod makers would have to do nothing except give permission, and Core users would be directed to get the "full version" or "realism balanced version" of whichever parts they like best. Hopefully most mod-makers would be on board, but many are very touchy about their stuff...especially the "realism" fans. This would also keep the resource thing from spiraling out of control and have a lot of other benefits to the lay user as well as future mod-makers. Anyways...

Oh yeah, BTW, in one of the recent versions I downloaded, all torque had disappeared completely from pods, making stock aircraft un-flyable. I'll check again in a minute to see if that was fixed.

------

Yep, torque was wiped out. Even going very easy on the throttle you still can't get the mustang or sabre more than 30 meters without wobbling off the runway. Having Farram installed fixes the issue, but you should mention that users need this mod then to make your pods work.

Edited August 19, 2013 by PolecatEZ

[Galacticruler]

Hey Snjo, I've been running into an issue with the FS plugin's sound module...my impulse drives won't quit producing sound until they are turned off.

	MODULE
	{
		name = FSengineSounds
		engage = General Propulsion/Sounds/sound_ImpulseStart
		//running =
		power = General Propulsion/Sounds/sound_ImpulseEngine
		//disengage =
		flameout = General Propulsion/Sounds/sound_ImpulseStop
		//warning = 
		powerPitchBase = 1.5
		thrustAddedToPitch = 0.7
		powerFadeInSpeed = 0.001
		powerFadeInDelay = 0.1
		powerLowerThreshold = 0.0
		powerVolume = 1.0
		engageVolume = 1.0
		//disengageVolume = 1.0
		//warningSoundThreshold = 0.8
		//warningCooldownTime = 2.0
		//randomStartDelay = 0.0
	}

EDIT:

I'd also like your permission to distribute the large bomber fuel tanks with my fuels in them as a placeholder for whenever I manage to get a modeler.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Galacticruler

[Ghostbird]

I've found a really weird glitch in Firespitter with the Jet wings with "toggle leading edge" functionality. I used these wings to create a space shuttle-esque system.

I found however that the toggled leading edges apply a constant deceleration, applied to the speed as a scalar. Thus I now have a space shuttle in Equatorial NORBIT (non-orbit). The plane is actually nearly suspended against the force of gravity by the power of "leading edge". The power of the leading edge is a scalar, and thus dependent on the speed of the vehicle. At this height, the acceleration of gravity and the scalar deceleration of the "leading edge" cancel each other out at 11.7 m/s. Thus my plane is now moving in a straight line trough space, towards Kerbin at a steady rate of 11.7 m/s. This kind of maglev (that's magical levitation, not magnetic levitation) is kind of game breaking.

Could you please revisit the fighter wings? I thought this was what they intended to do:

Increase lift, at the cost of more drag (as in real-world aeroplanes)

I think this can be implemented fairly simply and effectively by making the toggle change both lift and drag parameters of the part (increasing both).

EDIT:

It may be that the wings have been correctly implemented for atmospheric conditions and that the glitch arises from unforeseen effects in vacuum.

The effect disappears instantly when officially entering atmosphere, even if at this point the atmosphere is so thin that no sudden transition from vacuum ought to be observed.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Ghostbird
Additional findings

[Snjo]

...

Oh yeah, BTW, in one of the recent versions I downloaded, all torque had disappeared completely from pods, making stock aircraft un-flyable. I'll check again in a minute to see if that was fixed.

------

Yep, torque was wiped out. Even going very easy on the throttle you still can't get the mustang or sabre more than 30 meters without wobbling off the runway. Having Farram installed fixes the issue, but you should mention that users need this mod then to make your pods work.

The reaction wheel torque is very low or off, because I don't like magical torque to be greater than what the pilot could make by simple leaning over in the cockpit. If you want to pitch or roll, you should use your control surfaces for that. I don't use FAR myself, and I can take off with no problems with my planes (the K-17 is the most challenging one), but I have flown them many many times, so I know to apply moderate throttle, and keep pulling back on the stick after you get close to take off speed.

If you get close to take off speed, the wheels start losing contact with the ground asymmetrically sometimes, causing a violent turn and flip. Therefore you need to practice the right speed and pitching maneuver for your plane.

edit: you can also increase the max aileron control angle to get more lift when pulling back on the stick. It can give you take off a few m/s earlier, and is important in very heavily loaded planes.

Hey Snjo, I've been running into an issue with the FS plugin's sound module...my impulse drives won't quit producing sound until they are turned off.

	MODULE
	{
		name = FSengineSounds
		engage = General Propulsion/Sounds/sound_ImpulseStart
		//running =
		power = General Propulsion/Sounds/sound_ImpulseEngine
		//disengage =
		flameout = General Propulsion/Sounds/sound_ImpulseStop
		//warning = 
		powerPitchBase = 1.5
		thrustAddedToPitch = 0.7
		powerFadeInSpeed = 0.001
		powerFadeInDelay = 0.1
		powerLowerThreshold = 0.0
		powerVolume = 1.0
		engageVolume = 1.0
		//disengageVolume = 1.0
		//warningSoundThreshold = 0.8
		//warningCooldownTime = 2.0
		//randomStartDelay = 0.0
	}

I don't think I got around to implementing jet-style shut off for the sound at low levels, even though there is a threshold value for it. I'll have to revisit that. As it stands, the sound will run as long as the engine is active.

I've found a really weird glitch in Firespitter with the Jet wings with "toggle leading edge" functionality. I used these wings to create a space shuttle-esque system.

I found however that the toggled leading edges apply a constant deceleration, applied to the speed as a scalar. Thus I now have a space shuttle in Equatorial NORBIT (non-orbit). The plane is actually nearly suspended against the force of gravity by the power of "leading edge". The power of the leading edge is a scalar, and thus dependent on the speed of the vehicle. At this height, the acceleration of gravity and the scalar deceleration of the "leading edge" cancel each other out at 11.7 m/s. Thus my plane is now moving in a straight line trough space, towards Kerbin at a steady rate of 11.7 m/s. This kind of maglev (that's magical levitation, not magnetic levitation) is kind of game breaking.

Could you please revisit the fighter wings? I thought this was what they intended to do:

Increase lift, at the cost of more drag (as in real-world aeroplanes)

I think this can be implemented fairly simply and effectively by making the toggle change both lift and drag parameters of the part (increasing both).

Haha! I made the leading edge drag independent of the presence of atmospheric pressure, didn't I? Ooops. That's what happens when you don't try your planes in outer space.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Snjo

[Ghostbird]

Hang on, there's something really weird going on with the plane. The effect disappeared before hitting the atmosphere, I read my altimeter wrong. I'm not sure what happens. I'll revert and relaunch to check what's happening. I can with certainty say that the effect doesn't exist when the leading edge is not deployed, or when the ship is "on rails".

[Galacticruler]

I don't think I got around to implementing jet-style shut off for the sound at low levels, even though there is a threshold value for it. I'll have to revisit that. As it stands, the sound will run as long as the engine is active.

Alright, that will be annoying, but I'll make note of it in the part descs.

now, did you catch my edit?

[Snjo]

Alright, that will be annoying, but I'll make note of it in the part descs.

now, did you catch my edit?

I added it to my todo list for the next version.

Yeah, you can use the cylinder, as long as you rename the part to avoid a conflict.

[Galacticruler]

I added it to my todo list for the next version.

Yeah, you can use the cylinder, as long as you rename the part to avoid a conflict.

Alright, thanks man!